Rewiring, where to start

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 29th, '17, 09:17

batteies= diesel with 1150 CCA-----4/0 Marine wire. gas with 750 CCA can be done in # 2 gauge or 1/0 marine tinned wire. all wiring from panel use # 10 gauge except lighting ----LED interior lighting # 14 marine as well as navigation lights. bilge pumps totally separate entity like you wiring the boat next to you! must use # 10 and separate ground to main ground bar!!!!! a bilge pump that fails can ruin your weekend no short cuts!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 7th, '17, 07:04

I’d like to attach the panel to a hinged panel for easy access anything that is premade that fits the bill before I spend the time making one?

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Dec 11th, '17, 01:10

Pete,
Make sure that you pay attention to the 120 volt side of the wiring. I found that every 31 and 35 that I surveyed needed new 10/3 AWG black jacketed feeds for the duplex outlets in the boat. The black jacketed wire that Bertram used dried out on the inside insulation that covers the black green and white 10 gage wire, the outside looks fine but when you open up the outter jacket you will find that the heat over time has dried out all the insulation and it just crumbles away in your hand. Also rep[lace all the old120 volt duplex plugs throughout the boat, change the head and sink outlets to GFIC outlets, we don't need our mates getting shocked while making us coffee or lunch.

When you do get around to wiring the boat buy the best wire strippers, cutters and invest in a good quality small butane torch for all the heat shrinked and epoxy filled connectors and closed eyed lugs, no automotive wire connectors, remember that wiring has to be supported every 18" and 120 volt runs over 72" are not allowed unless they have breakers inline. Shore power connections are just under 72" from the rear of the port engine box to the nearest 120 volt breaker panel under the aft dinette seat sub panel, usually a 4 breaker panel for the battery charger, oultets, air conditioner and a spare outlet. I found that that is the most convenient place for the sub panel. It makes short runs for the outlets under the dinette table and port V berth outlet and most of the old ConstaVolt battery chargers were in that location and if you use a plastic piece of mirror on the inside of the aft dinette seat bulkhead you can read the voltage on the battery charger by just lifting up the bottom seat cushion and it's a dry area for electronic components. Don't forget the chaffe protecting when passing thru bulkheads use rubber grommets of the correct size. Don't spare the wire ties and use the ones with eyes built in or rubber and aluminum with holes. Be prepared to spend close to
$2,500 to $ 3,500 depending if you need a new battery charger and how big your 120volt and 12 volt panels are going to be, that's not including your labor costs. figure $120 and hour for boat yard electrician and that is cheap.Good luck with your project and remember only Marine Grade tinned copper boat cable is to be used in the rewire project. Only # 8 AWG green wire for bonding system wiring and a under water gold plated earth ground is a good idea for bonding system and lightening protection 3''W'x 9''L or12" by 1/2" thick with 2 thru bolts to the inner hull, do not paint, it defeats the purpose if painted with anti fouling paint.
Happy Holidays to all.
Pete Fallon

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 30th, '18, 13:05

I've got a bit of an update, will take some pictures soon. The new panel is installed, was able to get dedicated breakers where needed and starting to clean up the mess that was created over the last 50 years. Dedicated house batteries and nothing running directly off the battery. Haven't addressed shore power yet.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 30th, '18, 13:27

peter just call or text me i can answer every possible question you can think about.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 30th, '18, 14:33

Psst...pete, ask bob how to wire up your new trim tabs.

just don't tell him I told you to ask

LOL-

Our boat do collect alot of old wires over the years. Guess I added my fair share of them too.

Finally got mine in water last week.
Lots of To Do's on that list for sure, but she ran well.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » May 30th, '18, 21:01

Carl wrote:Lots of To Do's on that list for sure, but she ran well.

Excellent! Lots of good progress to celebrate here...
Stephan

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 30th, '18, 21:07

Peter

One of the biggest issues with the 110 side is the location of the outlets from the factory. Always near a dam leaking window.

Good to hear you have the 12 volt side done. Did you tackle it yourself? Not really a bad job. Just time consuming.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 31st, '18, 08:56

shore power you must search high and low you will find 110 volt shore power in stainless steel. buy it and install just aft of engine hatch on the starboard side of the boat. you CAN NOT install the 10-3 marine 600 volt wire in the 2" pipe running fore and aft on starboard side so you tie wrap along the bottom of the pipe to 110 volt side of new electrical panelboard ( high voltage wire (120 volt) cannot be installed in the same raceway as 12 volt wiring) that is step number one of high voltage. the rest is my own knowledge cannot be found on the internet. use electrical pennatrox paste on all electrical connections.the ground of the INCOMING dockside electric (120 volt) will run to a 30-ampere ground detecter before going to the panelboard. a simple in/out ground connection. will self-destruct on a lightning strike. the boat electrical system will have only 1 fuse on the entire boat that is a feed off incoming battery connection to the battery switch from that point a number six gauge wire to 40-ampere fuze holder with fuze to a small distribution block and on to bilge pumps switches.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » May 31st, '18, 09:49

https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Stainles ... B0000AXYJV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 31st, '18, 11:02

as usual, Mike is on top of the internet purchases. this cockpit 120 volt inlet in SS is the ONLY one to use trust me the plastic ones will arc out in a salt water atmosphere. do it right the first time! mike i have many accounts at electrical supply houses try so you should try to find FS OR FSS electrical trade boxes PVC on the net do not use recommended 120 volt electrical boxes from marine stores!!!!!! returning from a long stay in Florida i realize many people depend on lows/home depot for there electrical needs no REAL electrical supply houses around . i will change my post to internet purchases.
with regard to only one fuze on the boat, the theory is no-nonsense blowing fuzes on bilge pumps however we don`t want to start a fire in a dead short situation the rest of boat including a very special bit of circuitry to those "million dollar Furuno electronic equipment" are all on breakers including bridge panel, cockpit panel.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 31st, '18, 12:25

Thanks guys appreciate all the comments, I just ordered that shore power plug. Right now on the shore power side it runs under the dinette seat to a main breaker to separate breakers for 3 outlets - under the dinette, in the cubby behind the sink and one in the head, there is also a galvanic isolater . It is not in the main panel, there is not inverter or battery charger, I will update that at some point but it's low on the list, I don't have shore power at my dock and I am generally a day boater only.

As for the 12 volt side, it was such a mess. Two starting batteries one also served the house, some of it ran through the panel but other stuff ran directly off the battery. And some items tied directly to the other battery. Now that we've added two house batteries I have to rerun things that were connected direct to the batteries, both a bus bar in the engine compartment and one from the bridge not connected to the panel. Some stuff still needs to be moved. Because of that I also had breakers and fuses mounted all over the place, in the engine compartment. double fused on the bridge, some has already come out more to do still. You can't believe after 50 years I'm the first person to not just stack stuff on top of the original or actually remove a wire that is no longer connected to anything.

I can chase this stuff down, do some grunt work but ultimately a good friend of mines son is a marine mechanic and well versed in ABYC standards, he ultimately is making all the new connections and recommending how to fix stuff etc, I'm paying him to help me. Without his help I'd be lost and it seems every time we work on something we find a new problem that needs to be addressed. We were down there for a few hours last night and everything is functional with problems still to be addressed, I'd be very surprised if we address it all before the end of the season.

Right now the batteries two each are sitting outboard the engine, I know this is not ideal but in the companion way I have all the plumbing for the head, overboard discharge, macerator and transducer as well as the holding tank.

Bob I am going to ask you to come for a visit and look at my progress, try and catch things that we may have missed etc.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 31st, '18, 20:09

Geez Bob you would think that you are an Electrician or something. LOL

Luckily here in NJ we still have supply houses that have walk up supply desks that still cater to the home owner as well as their commercial trade. I would hope that when it comes to Electrical supplies Homies and Lowes would be ok since they have to meet UL Code. But in this day and age of sell it cheap who knows. When I need stuff I try and visit the supply houses.

For Marine, I stick with Marine only. Mostly online to get what I need. I find that is the only place to find everything you need for certain jobs on the boat. The local Boat Supply store is small and needs to order stuff and one off's gets expensive to order through them and West Marine is just way out of line on most things but convenient when you are in a bind.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 1st, '18, 08:09

Tony,

Don't forget, West Marine will price match. Just show them the same item on a webpage and they will lower their price.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 1st, '18, 08:47

yes tony E/E , specialize electrical contractor .what i purchase from supply houses is impervious to saltwater and you can purchase products that far exceed you local or internet marine dealer. All nuclear powerhouses must use massive amounts of salt water to cool the reactor they draw the water nearby into a huge room called a screen well than thru eight 10 " bronze everdor piping to the reactor building. everything in the building is made from 316 SS. there are also electrical (federal specs) for bridges, tunnels, roadways, traffic signals and roadways that far exceed any crap from west marine. ok let us get back to post, the high voltage dockside electric and the generator feed to the main panel could kill you or your loved ones if installed by "bubba" or a handyman!!!! I borrowed a 50' roll of fiber optic tubing used by Verizon for underground entry to homes and commercial buildings as a raceway and made two individual runs, one from genny and one from dockside SS entry outlet as mike gave a link to the main panelboard. this is how i would wire Pete's boat. the fiber optics tubing is supported every foot under the salon, galley floorboards mounted on the side of stringers out of harm's way.my entire boat is wire unconventional with my life depending on it and ZERO glitches in 18 years and one lightning strike.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 1st, '18, 08:53

Decided we are going to start from scratch on the bridge, ran power up there for all the accessory lights, electronics etc. Ordering a blue seas panel with LED indicators

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jun 1st, '18, 08:55

Joseph Fikentscher wrote:Tony,

Don't forget, West Marine will price match. Just show them the same item on a webpage and they will lower their price.

Must be patient with West Marine. I ordered $600 worth of standard Ancor wire during their recent sale. Their pricing was the best, but delivery is taking weeks and weeks. Spools coming from everywhere in different boxes. Glad I'm not in a hurry!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 1st, '18, 11:32

that is a excellent start blue seas breaker switch panel with LEDs for the bridge.wiring the bridge easy hands-on teaching for bass with flyrod real hard

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 1st, '18, 13:06

bob lico wrote:that is a excellent start blue seas breaker switch panel with LEDs for the bridge.wiring the bridge easy hands-on teaching for bass with flyrod real hard

Bob a very good friend of mine and a fly fishing mentor, adopted 3 children from Russia 20 years ago. They went for one and returned with his brother and sister too. The son went to Boces marine tech school, worked for a number of years at Moriches boat and motor and now Great Bay Marine. He's a great kid and is the one helping me out with the work...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 6th, '18, 18:53

peter this is my main panel located on forward bulkhead above V-birth.the panel is recessed into the wall so the little one cannot brush against the breaker. the entire panel is on SS piano hinge and pulls down forward to work on.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 6th, '18, 18:56

the panel in the pull-down position.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Jun 6th, '18, 19:20

Bob-
Did you find that striped wiring somewhere or was it original to the boat??
Best,
Stephan

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 6th, '18, 21:46

Stephan

Try these guys.

https://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Spira ... imary-Wire

I also buy wire from GenuineDealz. I have not seen them carry the striped marker wire.

http://www.genuinedealz.com/

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 6th, '18, 21:52

there is not one original wire .i strip the boat clean of all electrical even the F/G embedded original wires to navigation lights were replaced.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 7th, '18, 14:57

Any tips on choosing a fridge that I can get through the doorway? I've considered the newer drawer style but would prefer the traditional size if it can be taken apart to get in the cabin. Not high on the priority list but giving it some thought.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 7th, '18, 18:17

peter sometimes there are such ridiculous solutions to a complicated situation such as i have shown in the photo of the panel. i install a simple ball and socket type latch on either side of the panel with brass pull handle on the top. for the eight zillion times you have to get back to add and circuit while wiring and using the boat a simple tug and you are looking at the back of the main panel.ok change subject i will show you how to get the refrigerator in place.----------------what weight bucktail do you use along fire island shore perhaps 35' of water average current (moving tide)

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 7th, '18, 19:22

the brand is Norcold the size i have to go to the boat and measure.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Jun 7th, '18, 20:36

Tony-
Thank you for the reference.
https://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Spira ... imary-Wire

Stephan

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 8th, '18, 07:34

to be perfectly honest i don`t remember where i purchase the striped wire but it was a commercial outlet. Phoenix has many accounts with electrical suppliers from generators to specialize lightning equipment.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 8th, '18, 08:19

bob lico wrote:peter sometimes there are such ridiculous solutions to a complicated situation such as i have shown in the photo of the panel. i install a simple ball and socket type latch on either side of the panel with brass pull handle on the top. for the eight zillion times you have to get back to add and circuit while wiring and using the boat a simple tug and you are looking at the back of the main panel.ok change subject i will show you how to get the refrigerator in place.----------------what weight bucktail do you use along fire island shore perhaps 35' of water average current (moving tide)

With regard to the bucktail this time of year I'm going to generally use white and tip it with a long white rubber tail. I'm going to say probably a 3 oz., You should have a box with every size and you want it to stay on the bottom without it drifting to far from the boat. It's all going to depend on the wind and current, if they are moving in the same direction vs if the wind is slowing you down is going to matter. It's also going to matter if you are using braid or mono, thicker line is going to create drag as well...

Once upon a time I fished almost every day in the spring, but we are now on the ball field for two more weekends..

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Jun 8th, '18, 10:03

Hey Peter---are you rigging with 3-way swivel like they do a Plum Gut?

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 8th, '18, 10:17

Craig Mac wrote:Hey Peter---are you rigging with 3-way swivel like they do a Plum Gut?

I only do that if I'm fishing up against the rocks, around the inlet. If that's the case I set up a rod just for that and will often use a bucktail teaser rig without weight. Not so much in the spring more often a late fall thing when jigging

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 8th, '18, 11:23

hmmm, bucktail teaser! thank you peter

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 8th, '18, 11:30

bob lico wrote:hmmm, bucktail teaser! thank you peter

If you do that in the open ocean and that teaser is suspended in the water column you'll only get bluefish

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 8th, '18, 16:56

like i indicated quite a bit harder for me to learn all these bass fishing tactics than wire a 31 Bertram!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 10th, '18, 06:10

I’m not set up to upload photos at the moment so for those with FB here are some shots
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2162915 ... 130022075/

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 10th, '18, 18:24

i should explain my wiring of Phoenix; the first job is to bring your 12 volt power to a DRY area in my case there is an area in back of sliding draw as you walk in the cabin on salon bench. background port and starboard separate battery bank but parallel under emergency solenoid (never used in 18 years) the left side of the photo is the only fuse for bilge pumps panel. closest is the isolation blocks that charge and discharge battery banks independently and charge the battery bank that is lowest first from the digital battery charger mounted under the opposite side salon bench both areas are cool and dry (forward bilge is isolated from the cockpit )at all times, no heat or oil vapor from engines.mounted on sidewall not seen are the rotaries breakers to each panel (main panel, cockpit w/p panel, bridge panel thru electrical isolation for surges to electronics.there is one surface mount breaker on left side of photo .a 60 amp main breaker to cockpit panel.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 15th, '18, 12:43

Ordering all new LED lighting, interior and navigation. Any tips, thoughts comments?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 15th, '18, 18:59

i have led overhead recess lights i believe four, all work perfectly and they are yours for free. about 2 1/2" in diameter, white trim,white light.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jun 17th, '18, 19:38

Just verify they have a UL rating or better yet are FCC compliant, this means that the drivers or LEDs themselves don't interfere with vhf or fm transmission/reception. Many an hour has been spent chasing problems that were caused by cheap led lighting.
Just a PSA from someone who cares.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 18th, '18, 08:31

Thanks for the offer Bob, I'm doing direct replacements of fixtures so I'm not going to put anything in my existing headliner. At least yet as that is another project to redo the headliner.

JP thanks for that I am ordering everything direct from a marine distributor from the local boat yard but I will be sure to check all the specs.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jul 16th, '18, 21:45

https://www.facebook.com/1171164937/pos ... 082167812/

Haven’t set up anything to post pics since photobucket changed. Hope you all can see these.

White Bear · Post by **White Bear** » Jul 18th, '18, 07:17

I've only done one myself, so probably not qualified to comment. The hardest part of the job was making the decision that all the wiring between the batteries and the consumers had to go. Once that was removed it all seemed to fall into place. I even found one run in the bilge (forget what it was supposed to do) that was made up from three separate pieces of wire joined with two crimp-on butt connectors.