[Partially] Hidden Anchor Concept for B31

[Stone Pony]

Hi, Folks, I'm Luke, new to the site. Thank you all for having me.

I originally posted this (a few minutes ago) as a reply to an old post about bow pulpits. It now occurs to me that I should have started a new post from the outset. I apologize if the redundancy is obnoxious.

I picked up my first B31 a year ago this week, a largely unmolested/original '78 SF repowered in '04 with Yanmar 4LHA-STPs (240 HP ea). Other upgrades by previous owner included solid glass cockpit deck/sole, and a nice swim platform. Just the setup I wanted, and I couldn't be happier. "Stone Pony" is her name.

I set out on this adventure with the intention of doing a full resto in phases, while utilizing the boat every season. And, being a lifelong hater of corroded aluminum, I thought I would start by replacing the windows and frames with a fiberglass frame kit, and eliminating all the aluminum trim in favor of fairing and finishing mating edges. But, instead, I had the bottom sandblasted in April, and spent half the summer filling blisters, refinishing the bottom, and rearranging the water line and boot stripe(s) to my liking; a terrible experience that ate up all my 2017 wish-list time. In hindsight, though, having achieved 30 kts @ WOT (an improvement of at least 2 kts), it was time and money well spent. FYI: I did the whole Interprotect 2000 program.

Now that I've had the better part of a season getting to know "the Pony" -- and what I want to get out of her, my contempt for crusty old aluminum has been displaced by my disdain for anchoring without a windlass. I'm doing more and more bottom fishing, and so an automatic anchor would materially improve the quality of my life. This brings us to my first need for input from you all.

I have seen the molded pulpits available from Hightide and Glass-Tech. They're nicely made and all, but the general aesthetic doesn't appeal to me. And wood is definitely out, as I do maintenance work for a living. So I am now considering a somewhat-hidden anchor concept that I once saw in a youtube video. It involves a Delta anchor, a low-profile windlass (as Lewmar V700), a standard anchor roller, some minor fabrication work, and no pulpit; it goes as follows: 1.) cut a small hole through the top of the stem (sufficiently large, and shaped for the anchor shank to pass through), 2.) fabricate and install a solid glass platform inside the top part of the anchor locker, and 3.) mount the windlass and anchor roller onto the platform. The video can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyIS-Ljfvv0

I would likely omit the foot switches.

Obvious disadvantages of this arrangement, and my thoughts on them:
1.) An already-wet boat that now has a hole in her stem: I use the boat for inshore fishing, picnicking, and light coastal cruising. I never EXPECT to take green water over the bow ...
2.) When weighing anchor, bashing it into the stem and hull sides: I don't want a stainless steel plate on my hull, and so I guess I would just have to be careful ...
3.) Flagrant molestation of a previously-unmolested boat: I'll do a nice job ... of hacking a hole through my bow ...

Any input will be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to criticize and/or recommend possible improvements to the above concept, and/or propose a different arrangement altogether.

Thank you, all, I look forward to receiving your feedback!

Luke

[John F.]

Luke-

Sounds like you have a nice B31. I use my B31 in the Chesapeake, and prior to that she was also used offshore. Even in the Chesapeake I'm sure she'd take a lot of water through that hole in the bow/stem. That's happen coming out of an inlet into waves, or trolling. When she's running the bow is high enough that I don't think it'd be a problem in the Bay--offshore or big water inlet is another matter altogether. Me, personally, I wouldn't do it. I also wonder about the life of the windlass when its getting water on it forced up through that hole. Cool idea though. If you go through with it, please take pics and then let us know how it works out.

John

[Carl]

Welcome to the sandbox!

Those quick projects can definitely take alot longer then anticipated...especially once you get into them. The possible exception would be JimmyG who can rebuild an entire boat over a 3 day weekend including glass paint and new motors...LOL. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but man, when he get into a project and it moves along at quite the pace.

Anyway, cool idea on the windless! My concern would be 2 fold...maybe 3..

Windless is really only supposed to pull and drop anchor...in the snot you usually want to tie the line off. In snot, I'd not like having to lean over bow to grab the line.

Windless always work perfect except when you need them to...if it jams...how are you getting to that windless to free it up or manually bring it in.

If you can see the Rope coming in...your good. But in my Express..I know I would not be able to see rope coming in...or if I was passing over it. If it was coming in, going out, taught or slack. Not a huge problem in good weather...in snot is another story.

Last thing...building the box for aesthetics is one issue, but that box, enclosure needs to be able to hold that boat. Again..in nice weather, not an issue...in snot anchor lines hold an enormous amount of pressure.


Fair weather boating is all fine and dandy and doesn't put lots of stress on your equipment. I am not sure where you boat...but I have enjoyed some beautiful days that flipped on the dime. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Just saying an anchor is a very important piece of equipment that needs to work when needed.


Just something that comes to my mind with an out of sight windless.



...personally I use the wife, friends or kids windless system. Stows away nicely, doesn't draw much power...sometimes a little slow, but it is what it is.


best of luck to you!

Carl

[cariedl]

Welcome aboard, share some pics of boat - we all like pictures.

With regards to the anchor, I would echo what others are saying, the hole in the stem would scare me enough not to do it. Is your anchor locker water tight? If not, something else to consider, but I would agree with Carl's comments about strength of the windlass platform shown in the video and the ability to tie the anchor off and monitor the operation of the windlass when retrieving the anchor. I would be nervous about not being able to watch the windlass to ensure it is operating correctly.

One of my winter projects this year is replacing my windlass and I've opted to go with a Lewmar as well. I decided to go with the CPX1 (also a vertical windlass but deck mount it. Currently, my Bahia Mar has a bow pulpit, but I am removing that and replacing it with a bow roller so the anchor sits closer to the hull. In my opinion it looks cleaner. I've seen the windlass recessed on the deck as well using a vertical windlass. It sits flush with the deck and the anchor rode and chain are still visible but not sitting on top of the deck.

Either way, keep us posted with what you decide.

[Yannis]

Stone Pony welcome,

In my view, the horizontal windlass (pls see pic below) is better than the vertical one, in that it doesn't present, as often, the problems of jammed chain at the bow. The vertical windlass configuration adds an additional angle to the equation (where the chain portion that comes back from the roller and is already on the deck, has to be fed downwards into the chain compartment). This bend, or change in direction of the chain (with rode it's even worse), is sometimes creating a lot of problems.
Yes, the horizontal windlass is bulkier on the bow than the vertical one, but aesthetics is important until practicality and safety issues arise.

As for the solution you contemplate, the fact that you cannot see the anchor as it's being pulled, is a major drawback. Not only can you not pull it in such a way so that you can slow down or stop the windlass as the anchor approaches the hull, risking material stress to all parts involved, but in case something goes wrong (pull somebody else's anchor or a rope) you cannot untangle it with ease if at all, as the position of the roller is difficult to reach, let alone that you may NOT have realized there is a problem in the first place. A friend with a Fountain 36 that has a factory roller/windlass like the one you describe, heard a loud bang while cruising at 36 knots and realized his chain had somehow flipped over the windlass, was dropped by itself and hit under the boat removing a good portion of fiberglass, lucky he stopped before the anchor reached his propellers.

I had a pulpit and got rid of it as I didn't like it, however, I installed a roller identical to the one shown in your video up on deck. You can see, you can control, you can guide the person who you send to the bow how they should proceed with the occasional issue, because you see from the bridge what's going on. And yes, the buttons on the bow are essential. Both when you're sending someone over to do the dirty job, or if you do that yourself being alone. Can you imagine how else you can untangle a jammed chain, or free an anchor which is blocked at the bottom, with the necessary windlass back and forths, when you're alone at the bow, if the controls are just on the bridge?

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/27636 ... 105516.jpg

[Tony Meola]

Welcome

Stone Pony, by chance are a NJ boy or just a big Bruce fan?

I feel your pain from blasting the bottom. Was there once myself.

I have to agree with the others and in watching the video I have to say sweet, but even in the video they recommend being on the bow when the anchor comes up just to make sure all is well.

As far as hitting the boat, I think the design prevents that under calm conditions but if it gets sloppy then that is another story.

As far as green water, there is always that one time that you get caught especially running an inlet.

If you are from NJ then you know about the reputation of some of our inlets. After running our boat for 42 years I can say that I have stuffed the bow a few times. I have had green water cover the fordeck. Oh that Barnegat Inlet.

I think the idea is great and if you could resolve the needing to be on the bow and having some type of door to close off the opening in bad weather then you have taken a good idea and made it better.

I hope we don't discourage you and keep asking away.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

I installed a windlass this year. Tried to keep it simple like "Zero Cavity". Do a search. In the picture you can see the anchor in its deck chocks. If i am not anchoring I can store the anchor below, only bringing it on deck if needed, After use it can stay on deck until washed and dried, then put below. I don't anchor in the ocean so no need to worry about that. In order to keep the bow light/chock original I use 6' of chain. I bring the anchor up so the chain is just below the rub rail, leaving 3' out of the water and 3' in the water. I then idle out of the anchorage away from other boats, drift for a minute and hand pull the last 6', so no damage to the hardware on deck. Put the anchor in the anchor chocks and leave it there until washed and dried. Works for me. I know the deck needs to be painted, maybe this spring.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4sc5njvdhllvr ... 8.JPG?dl=0

[Yannis]

Obviously Joe, we use the anchors totally differently.

However, if you anticipate to drop anchor when you arrive somewhere, how do you deal with the anchor being on its chock? Do you have to go to the bow and assemble the components and then hang those 6 feet out before you arrive? In a chop? And when you move fwd doesn't the hanging anchor hit the hull?

And then one other thing: The windlass pulls a rope or a chain? What does it do with it then? It feeds it down below? I don't seem capable to grasp this with a rope. Unless there is a trick that I 'm totally unaware of, which is quite possible...

Also I see a shackle there...do you connect the chain to the anchor with a shackle? Then I surely MUST be missing something. If you do that here you're like Cuba Libre, or... on the rocks! I thought that a shackle like that would never be safe to withstand the forces in boats like ours. Different worlds!

[Bill Fuller]

Yannis,
If you disregard the windlass, you are looking at a factory original system.
The anchor sets in the chalks as shown in Joe's picture.
Chain lays on the deck and feeds into the hawse pipe (see the rust where the chain was). Shown with the cover on the hawse pipe.
Deploy the anchor by hand. Retrieve by hand and feed the rode and chain into the hawse pipe. Slow and a pain.
All of our B28s and B31s were delivered from the factory with this system.
So far as what exactly the Joe does, I don't know, but essentially stock except for letting the windlass do the pulling.
Bill

[Bill Fuller]

Stone Pony, Luke,

Listen to all of the concerns posted above. They are all valid. Especially the lack of strength shown in the video.
When you install a windlass, you need to do a substantial amount of reinforcing under the deck.
First, remember that the chain is what sets the anchor. Normally the rule of thumb is one foot of chain for each foot of boat, or 31 feet on your boat. Personally I like more. I use 60 feet of chain. That way you know the anchor will set in any conditions and fast. In my mind the chain is more important than the anchor.
As for the windlass, the anchor locker in these boats is not big, and I did not want to lose any space there so I use the horizontal Lumar 700 mounted on the deck. In addition to my 60 feet of chain I have 350 feet of 1/2 inch rode, which pretty much fills up the anchor locker. The Lumar feeds it all in very nicely.
Another item on the windlass, I strongly suggest that you get a power up and a power down version. Lumar makes one that has a free fall mode. I found that with the free fall, the chain would fall faster than the anchor and the 2 would tangle and consequently not allow the anchor to get a solid set on the bottom. Also, there seems to be a lot more failures with the windlass itself when equipped with the free fall.
Another reason for not hiding the windlass, every once in a great while the chain or rode will jump out of the sprocket. You need to see it and be able to fix it quickly.
Plus, at least Lumar, states specifically that the anchor must be tied off and the windlass is not to be used as the point of pressure.
I don't particularly like the deck switches although I used them for many years. Lumar makes a nice remote, wireless system that I use when I want to go to the bow and operate the windlass. Just a fob similar to the older car locking device, an up button and a down button. It works great! Also allows you to lean over the side, lay down on the deck or whatever and operate the windlass.
I operate mine almost exclusively from the bridge. I have a pulpit which I like a lot. I have my chain painted bright orange about 5 feet before the anchor so I know when to slow down the retrieve and be careful. Also paint my rode every 30 feet. One stripe at 30, two stripes at 60, 3 stripes at 90, etc. Makes it easy to know how much you have out and how much scope.

Just a few of my thoughts on this subject.

Bill

[Yannis]

Bill,

Very nice points. All of them.
Just so I can better understand, how deep do you drop your anchor when you use it? For what reason? I admit I have no clue as to how you guys may use your anchor.
Also, why do you use rode? Is it because you drop anchor so deep that no chain would be enough for the space provided by our boats?
Lastly, we make so there are at least a minimum of 3 times the boat length in chain, because indeed it is the chain that holds the anchor. Like I said, I now have 60 meters (6+ times my boat's length) and I will change it to 80 meters soon, to give you an idea.
How do you guys change from sprocket to capstan when the rode changes to chain (or vice versa)?

[Bill Fuller]

Yannis,
The rope and chain combo has a lot to do with owner preference. 100% chain certainly gives you the best chance of holding.
Many here in the U.S.A. use 100% chain, again a matter of preference. I use 60 feet and then the rest rode to make 400+ feet total.
Everyone uses their boat differently and will have a different need for anchoring. In the summer I spend most of my time off shore and do not anchor at all.
During the winter and spring I typically anchor in 90 to 150 feet of water. The additional rode is some times needed to get enough scope to insure the anchor holding. Especially in wind. I don't think I would hold on a sandy bottom in 150 feet of water even with 60 meters (180) feet of chain. Just no enough scope.
Also, depending on the size of chain being used, the anchor locker on our boats can fill up pretty fast. And there is also a weight consideration.
Again, all a matter of preferences.
The Lumar windlasses being discussed here transition smoothly from chain to rode. You just have to make sure you have a nice smooth splice.
Like I said, I control mine 99% of the time from the bridge, but the remote is real nice when needed. I just go up and secure the anchor when done. Or not if only moving a short distance before anchoring again.
The 2 big things for Luke is to be sure to reinforce under the deck and to have a solid way to secure the anchor while under way.
Bill

[Yannis]

Bill, now I get it.
So you guys need rode so as to be able to anchor to such deep waters, otherwise you would need so much chain that would simply not fit in the locker, plus the weight.
The only thing that's different among you, is how much chain you use at the end of your rode. Some use 6 feet, others, like you, use 60 feet.
I would do the same.

I use 8mm chain (thickness) as this is what I consider necessary for our boats' weight.
Some others use 6mm, but they are the ones who stay up on deck on windy nights...
One thing is certain. Without a good anchoring system (windlass, chain, anchor) that is carefully thought out for each boat, you cannot moor in the Med.
Boats with an anchor with 10 feet of chain plus rode, or without a windlass, simply do not exist.
As there are no tides, so there are no pillars, because they would be useless. So, you first drop your anchor as much forward as you need and then reverse to tie your stern ashore and be perpendicular to the dock.
As the ports or coves that we anchor in are usually not that deep, the "3 times the boat's length" rule is usually enough, except when you expect winds, so then you pay more scope.
Bottom line: Our boats are by definition heavier on the bow than yours, because of the necessary long chain, windlass, and good heavy anchor ready to be deployed, without chocks or anything else that might complicate the immediateness of the exercise. With up and down buttons both on the bow and on the bridge. And with a couple of special tools readily available so as to untangle from other peoples' anchors when pulling ours (or theirs) up. Occasionally, we have to dive to free our boats from other ropes and anchors.

[Bill Fuller]

Yannis,
I am just leaving on vacation. Driving into Mexico.
I will take some pictures of what I have when I return so you can see what works for me.
My chain is 1/4 inch, I think, which is 6.35mm. I have used 3/8 inch (almost 10mm) in the passed and prefer it.
But the windlass I have now requires 1/4 inch chain.
Bill

[Joseph Fikentscher]

I am not anchoring in deep water. In the river https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3fADzzdZDE and the bay i'm anchoring i n 5-10 feet of water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D1G0YBgLjs. I usually do not anchor to fish. Either drift or troll in the ocean.

[Yannis]

Joe,

Never seen such a hhuuuge congregation of boats before!

[Yannis]

Bill,

Saludos alos amigos Mexicanos, oleee!!

[Tony Meola]

Joe,

Never seen such a hhuuuge congregation of boats before!

Yannis

That little fleet usually gathers every weekend starting Memorial Day Weekend and starts to wind down right after Labor Day. When I leave our creek that is a straight run across the bay for me takes me about about 10 minutes to run across. The depth everyone anchors n is between 6 to 3 feet depending on the boat and how close you want to get in to the beach.

This area sits right behind the State Park. Island Beach Sate Park one of the prettiest pretty much unspoiled strip of land on the east coast. 10 miles long with a unique history. Right to the south in the Shallows sits an area called Sedge Islands. Marsh land that has a couple of fishing shacks on them. Only way to them is by water no electricity. Been in some the families for years and if anything happens to the structure that is it, can not be rebuilt. The area is important to the bay. It is a breeding ground for all types of bait and game fish.

Some of these people will get out of the boats and walk across to the Park and spend the day on the beach. Others will just relax on their boats and a lot of them spend the night out there. A well protected spot.

Seems that every year the crowd gets bigger and bigger. I will bet that this year, there were close to 1000 boats out there.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

Right Tony. Basically the same at Osborn (Treasure) Island on the Manasquan River but smaller due to area. Anchor up, raft up, whatever and swim, float, and party the day away. Not that many overnight there. Didn’t make it to Tices this year. Too much in the way.

[Carl]

I think choice of chain has a lot to do with the bottom your anchoring in and type of anchor.

Around here I use 6’ of chain, carry 250’ of line with a Danforth anchor...that is more then most people use around my area
If anchoring offshore in 100-200’ I take a separate anchor20’ of 3/8 chain And 300’ of line with a Danforth to hold secure.

Our bottom is mostly sand and mud... a slow drop with a good set, my anchor never slips.


As to windless pulling rope and chain...most of the units I am familiar with require a special line be used and properly spliced together to work.

[Yannis]

Tony,

Thanks for the insight. I'll get into google earth to see exactly how all these areas come together geographically. Especially in NJ that I know a little tiny bit of, since I spent some of my days not that far away from there, in PA.

Carl,

Of course, the chain and anchor you carry is to be suitable to the bottom you anchor at, as well as the purpose you use the anchor for. That's why, we carry completely different gear. What we lack with the Bertrams, and perhaps with most american boats though, is that the chain compartment is only accessible from down below and not through a hatch on the bow. You cannot have full control of the anchor drop or pull functions if you need someone to crawl on the v-berth to untangle the chain or spread it evenly into the compartment so it doesn't jam at the windlass...

Joe,

Nice videos. I'm glad you enjoy your boat in such a beautiful scenery.

Bill,

You should look into the possibility of changing that gypsy, if it limits you in the choice of chain.
I was told that to change my chain with a SAME thickness new chain, I should still take my own gypsy to the store and have the guys test in situ if it complies/fits with the new chain. Over here we have chain thicknesses in mm in 2mm intervals, like 6,8,10,12. For our size boats the 8mm is the one that makes most sense in terms of chain weight to chain length ratio.

[Stone Pony]

All:

Thank you for your feedback!

John F:

No big-water inlets for me, as yet. I’m in Huntington, NY, on the north shore of Long Island. That said, having moved into the B31 from a 24’ Lyman, I believe I’ll be going places I once only dreamed of, so a hole in the stem is definitely cause for concern, and the key reason I am seeking feedback.

Carl:

Having self-performed numerous keel-up restorations of smaller boats, I have learned the very hard way (by missing entire seasons) that there are no quick projects!

I have used the Lewmar V700 with success on my Lyman for a few years now. As Bill Fuller points out below, as long as you have a tight splice at the chain-to-rode joint, it’s a smooth operator. Also, I have always let the V700 bear the weight of the Lyman at anchor, without fastening the rode to a cleat. But the Lyman is a MUCH lighter boat.

Your point about trying to free-up a jam from inside the vee berth, with no line of sight to the bridge or to the anchor rode that is still paid out, has me thinking twice …

I have extensive experience with fiberglass, so construction of a suitably-strong platform for the windlass and roller is of little concern. On the Lyman, both the windlass and roler are mounted atop the foredeck. Underneath, to reinforce the deck, I laminated together two pieces of ¾” plywood, and, of course, glassed them in (with the Lyman, I had the benefit of having split the boat at the hull-to-deck joint, and turning the deck upside down [I replaced all balsa core with Nida Core and Coosa Board). I agree that the single sheet of G10 used in the video might flex a bit, and could benefit from being thicker, or laminated to second sheet ….

Cariedl:

Here are some pics https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iop ... Ex0UUtXMnc

With regards to a water-tight anchor locker, I will have to crawl into the vee berth and put some thought to how that would be achieved …

As to monitoring operation of the windlass, listening to it is about all that comes to mind. Unless, of course, I install a lamp and IP camera in the locker, and perhaps an ammeter on the motor circuit (to indicate a locked windlass motor rotor). I can almost see the most sensible of our fellow posters shaking their heads: “simplify, simplify, simplify”, right?

I like your idea of just installing the windlass and roller atop the foredeck. That’s exactly what I did on my Lyman. Remarkably, it didn’t even occur to me to do the same thing here ... or maybe it did, but I’m trying to keep the beautiful factory chock / navigation lights.

Is your foredeck already reinforced for the pulpit? I would think the load that the more compact roller assembly will transfer to the foredeck will be more concentrated than with the pulpit, and so reinforcement is all the more necessary …

Yannis:

Your point on horizontal vs. vertical windlass is well taken, as is that about aesthetics vs. functionality. The latter, is, I think, the fun part about designing solutions for boats; achieving balance and harmony between form and function. Someday perhaps we’ll discuss a practicable solution for achieving shade in the B31 cockpit without totally spoiling her perfect profile …

Having no line of sight to the anchor rode is valid cause for concern – I would be relying entirely on sound.

With the way I use the boat, I cannot envision a scenario where I would be pulling another boat’s anchor, except perhaps in the case of grappling a lost one …

Thank you for sharing the pic. I am now considering doing something similar. However, rather than sectioning the roller through the toe rail, I would consider mounting it over the top of same (again, it would break my heart to have to ditch the factory chock / nav lights), and then building-up the deck surface aft of the toe rail / under the roller assembly to the same plane as the toe rail.

You also illustrate a good argument for including the foot switches. I’ve just seen so many cored-deck boats (which I realize the 31 is not) whose hardware was not adequately maintained (e.g., by periodic re-bedding), that I am instinctively averted to unnecessary deck penetrations.

Tony Meola:

I’m not a Jersey boy, though I fully appreciate the Boss! The name “Stone Pony” came to me when I was running the boat down from her previous home in Cape Cod last November. In 25 kts wind and a 4 ft chop quartering on the starboard bow, the boat had an endearing bucking quality, like that of a horse. And, given her admirable rigidity, I though “Stone Pony” was fitting. Moreover, fiberglass is roughly half stone (quartz), and the pony is the smallest of the horse genus; similarly, the B31 might be described as the smallest of the battlewagons …

With regards to your idea of covering the hole in the stem, I am fairly confident that I could create a rubber plug to do just that. Of course, I would have to remember to remove and re-install the plug with each use of the anchor, making it a “soft control” (as opposed to a fool-proof hard one), which I am generally averted to.

As to “stuffing the bow” once in a while – and I’m going back to arguing FOR the hidden anchor concept here – does it sound reckless that, as a fair weather / inshore boater, I don’t see a big hazard in a small hole in the uppermost part of the stem, which enters a sealed locker that drains to the bilge?

And don’t worry, it would take a lot more than some objective feedback to discourage me! Thank you!

Joseph Fikentscher:

I like what you’ve done there, thank you for sharing the pic. I take it you’re of German heritage, which would explain the middle ground between form and function that you have achieved in your solution

6’ of chain has always worked for me on the smaller boats I have had. I typically anchor in, say, 15 to 65 feet of water.

Bill Fuller:

I am listening to all posters. And I can see why power up/down is the ticket. Thank you for pointing out the remote-control idea, I greatly prefer that concept to the foot switches. And, whatever solution I ultimately implement, adequate reinforcement and a means of locking anchor will be part of it. You are obviously very astute and detail-oriented on the subject of anchoring – thank you for weighing in (pun intended).

Guys:

Thank you all again! Your feedback has been very helpful. Please let me know if anything else comes to mind, and I will keep you all posted on what I ultimately decide do.

Luke

[Marlin]

Or, don't even consider an anchoring system on the bow if u want a clean look. I did the teak pulpit, lewmar thing,custom formed bow rail shaped to accentuate the pulpit,looks neat but have never used it! I anchor up every time I fish in the bahamas or keys,keys with an aluminum grapple type anchor, 12' 1/4" s/s chain ,250' 1/2" anchor line all initially carefully laid ito a 10 gal plastic garbage can,toss the anchor off the stern,walk the line forward, cleat it off, attach the anchor release ball/c clip and pop it loss, store the anchor in the fish box when traveling,barrel in the cabin, I doo this with my 62' as well,nice clean appearance on the for deck, just totally removed thewindlass from my 42 as I have been using the system I described for many years ,especially after I donated an expensive s/s polished plow anchor to the rocky bottom off key west and keep loosing non aluminum grapple hook anchors, learned this method from a Cuban owner of a tackle store in key west!

[Yannis]

Luke,

Last year I removed and replaced one of the two anchor buttons at the bow.
Not only there was not any rot around the old button’s screw holes, but because the brand I put in was different, I had to drill new holes. I drilled, applied sicaflex and let it sit there for the next 50 years.

One other good thing about those bow buttons is that in conditions of emergency, when your boat is for example too close to the dock while you are away, someone can jump in and pull the anchor for you by using those buttons. With the remote control hidden in the cabin, he might find himself willing but unable to do something.

I cannot overstress the necessity to be able to see the anchor, both while deploying or pulling, but also during cruising. I have lost an anchor while cruising once, and I realized it when I arrived to my destination because the dinghy was in the way and I couldnt see the anchor from the bridge during that one trip! There I realized two things: That the swivel is a useless device and that the security shackle has to catch on the anchor eye and not on the last chain ring.

Lastly, when I modified my chain compartment, I made a side hole as a drain (modified the locker's floor slope towards that hole too), because otherwise all the chain water was coming into the bilge, first under the cabin floor and then, once the plug in the bulkhead amidships was pulled, all the way to the transom bilge pump. Except for the hassle to have to accommodate for “passing-by” water, this water sometimes smells of rotten algae and I’d rather get rid of it at the source.

Whatever you do, good luck to you.

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/98472 ... 125551.jpg


As for achieving shade, here's a stock solution that I find practical, however if you fish perhaps the fact that the awning will be sitting on the gunnel may create some issues.

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/66972 ... 124234.jpg

[John F.]

Luke

Small world. I grew up in Northport, and spent a lot of time in Huntington. I bought my B20 from a guy who kept her moored in Huntington Bay. When LI Sound gets whipped up, I would think that plenty of waves could flood that little compartment m net through that slot.

John

[Stone Pony]

Marlin:

Thank you. I grew up on a lobster boat, and that’s exactly how my dad handled anchoring. One big advantage he had, though, was the trap hauler! Come to think of it, the 31 might benefit from such an arrangement …

That prompts me to extol a well-known virtue of the 31, and one of the key features that drew me towards owning one. I have always valued a boat that has a roomy cockpit. Can’t help but attribute that afection in part to memories of family holidays on the lobster boat; the entire clan on board, in a sort of semicircle of those old aluminum lawn chairs (the ones with the green or other-colored flat webbing), and a full-sized propane grill, straight from the backyard! The clan – and the cockpit – are slightly smaller these days, and I’ve since ‘upgraded’ to a Magma grill and four of those overpriced West Marine deck chairs. But it does feel good to keep a very special tradition alive by facilitating family gatherings just like the ones my siblings and I enjoyed so much as kids.

Yannis:

Please clarify “Not only there was not any rot around the old button’s screw holes”: is the B31’s foredeck cored or solid fiberglass?

As to your point about enabling a well-meaning passer-by to adjust anchor in my absence, I cannot envision a scenario where I would anchor and then leave the boat unattended. Do you use your anchor in lieu of a mooring?

Your point on line of sight between bridge and anchor is very well taken, thank you!

And I like what you did to drain the anchor locker! I may very well do the same …

Thanks also for sharing the pic of your cockpit shade. I’m going to defer this task for another season or two. Meanwhile, the Taylor Made AnchorShade will suffice.

John F:

Small world, indeed. I too did a stint in NPT – it’s one of my favorite places anywhere!

As to flooding the anchor locker, Yannis’ idea for through-hull draining is a possible solution, no?

All:

I am now considering either a SeaRay-style articulated bow roller as manufactured by SeaLux, or a Lewmar hinged roller. Photos here:
SeaLux articulated https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iop ... WFiNmVnZEE
Lewmar hinged https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iop ... XA1Ry1obFE

My logic for considering the articulated or hinged roller is to compensate for sheer angle; a straight roller would require a wedge block in order to let gravity do its thing. On my Lyman project, I achieved this by miter cutting a straight Lewmar roller, bending it to a suitable pitch, welding-in plates, and bringing the SS surface back to the factory-high polish; not a task that I wish to repeat!

As many have you have pointed out, first and foremost would obviously be suitable reinforcement of the underside of the foredeck. I would then have to decide between (A) notching-out the molded toe rail; glassing, filling, and fairing the new edges to achieve a factory appearance, and mounting the roller frame directly to the existing deck surface, or; (B) mounting the roller assembly atop the toe rail, and building-up the deck surface underneath the aft part of roller frame to the same height as the toe rail. In reading my own words, I realize that the latter approach would enable the use of a less-expensive straight roller, as I could offset sheer angle by simply building-up the deck surface under the roller frame to achieve a forward pitch.

Thank you again, guys, I sincerely appreciate all the input. Feel free to share any further thoughts, and I will keep you all posted.

Luke

[Yannis]

Luke,

By “no rot around the button’s holes”, I meant that my 28’s cored fwd deck (or as Tony describes it later-on) was bone dry around all holes of the previous button installation. The 31, I suspect, has also a cored deck, but let the 31 owners talk because they know better.

In the Med the anchor IS the mooring. There are hundreds of islands, each with tens of coves, wherever you drop anchor, thats your mooring. In bigger marinas, however, you do have proper moorings but that’s rather the exception than the rule.
So, when you moore aft at a dock with your anchor holding your bow away, and then go to town for 2-3 hours to buy groceries, or when you visit someone, the boat stays alone at the dock. The first stupid local or tourist Magellan may pull your anchor up and then drop it back again, but now the tension is gone and you risk hitting back on the dock. The X good guy jumps in (they have to like you a bit too) and with his toe pulls you back to a semi-normal condition, until you are back to fix things for yourself...

All this discussion about what roller to buy, is dependent on two main parameters. Whats you bow like and what kind of anchor you have. It is certainly not an issue of what you prefer or what looks better.
In this context, then, beside the issue of rigidity etc, you may choose to make sure that your anchor can drop by itself, as well as, if your anchor (or its tip) is well clear of the hull when pulled up.
I have a delta that is made to drop by itself, if you have a danforth, though, you may not be so lucky. Then you decide if you change your anchor or have to do all this construction with wedges and stuff.
Also, I understand that a hinged roller may be more appealing , consider though that it will never be as sturdy as a one piece roller. You may find yourself in a situation where all those moving parts give way, while youre still pulling to free yourself from a rocky bottom. The rest you can imagine...
Also it does not guarantee you in any way that just because it’s hinged it will drop your anchor if the anchor’s balance is not the correct one.
There was a thread talking also about anchor rollers when I was doing my own anchor adaptations, I’ll try to find it, or yet better, there is a member here who “specializes” in doing just this, I wonder if he’ll read this and understand it’s him!

[Tony Meola]

Luke

The for deck on the 31 is not cored but there is a plywood backing plate glassed in to the bottom of the foredeck. You can see it from the anchor locker when you look up.

[mike ohlstein]

The good news is also the bad news..... The nice thing about the Sound is that you can pretty much anchor anywhere using practically zero scope (well, 2:1 or less). The muddy bottom just plain holds. The problem with the anchoring in the Sound is that the muddy bottom just plain holds, and half of it will come up with the anchor. I spend more time dunking it in and out of the water like a tea bag to get the stinky mud off of it. Tough to do with a windless, especially if you can't see the anchor.

I use an anchor ball for retrieval, and have replaced the 1.5" rope opening with a nice large oval hole (and spring loaded cover) which makes dropping the line back into the locker a breeze. I've also replaced the front cleat with a bollard, and always secure the anchor to it via a safety line while under way. I keep a two sizes up fortress anchor folded up under the v-berth, and can swap anchors in 3 minutes from the relative safety of standing up through the hatch.

My boat is in the Glen Cove are, if you ever want to have a look.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

It is usually only my wife and I on the boat, and she is not going to the bow to assist in anchoring. Hence, my decision for the windlass.My anchor line is well marked so I know when the chain is near the bow chock. Idling with the anchor dangling removes most of the muck and the anchor does not rub on the hull. A short 3 minute drift is enough time for me to get on the bow and lift the last 6' of chain and the anchor on to the boat. My wife can stay safely on the bridge. Happy wife/Happy life.

If I was anchoring in deeper water or in the ocean or on the reef in the keys, I would probably add a roller and remove the Bertram bow chock and relocate the running lights.

[Carl]

The Sound can have some sporty days...

Trying to hear an anchor is tough when the winds howling, waves are crashing against boat motors are at a bit higher then normal idle, exhaust is buried, then open and buried again.

Trying to pull an anchor that dug deep in mud is tough in weather. I usually like to come up to it and tie off or swing around the other side...difficult in deep water when you cannot see the line. Kinda need to know if its ahead, to the left, right or if you went over....

Glad your listening to the input from all...its not meant to deter or scare you away from your idea...but to show possible issues.


A bud of mine put in the Lewmar winch...really liked it...but one issue he had that needed to be fixed taken care of was he didn't have enough room in his locker to allow rope to fall correctly and because of that it kept getting jammed up. He was going to have to increase size of rope locker...but decided to shorten line for windless and for offshore bring a basket with line, chain and anchor for depth.

[Tony Meola]

Mike


Barnegat Bay is pretty much the same way. Mud Mud and more mud. Unless you get lucky enough to hit a sandy spot. Then the grass makes it tough to grab.

Joe

I am the one that pulls the anchor. My wife is not too bad at manuvering the boat forward while I pull it up. If it gets windy then all bets are off.

I keep thinking about the hook up UV used to use. Run up on the anchor and have a line tied off at least 40 foot down the anchor line. Pull the line toward the stern cleat, hood it through a clip on a short line and then let the anchor ball pop it up while you power forward. Then I could basically run up on it with my wife clipping the line off pop the anchor then she can back the boat down to it while I pull the line in.

[Stone Pony]

Yannis, and Tony: Thank you both for clarifying foredeck construction methods.

Yannis: Boating in the Med sounds sublime, right up my alley! Someday …

Mike: Coincidentally, the anchor ball was a new concept to me until last week, when I saw a guy using one off Montauk Point. Ingenious. This has me reconsidering the whole windlass idea in favor of your simple-yet-effective solution. And I can see why you replaced the factory hawse pipe with a larger one. My cap went flying one of the first times I used the anchor (my punishment for commissioning the assistance of a stoned ‘deckhand’), and so I would need to replace it anyway; I believe that I too would go with a larger one. What type of anchor is your primary one, and how and where do you stow it?

All: With so much great insight to digest, I find myself back to the drawing board. E.g., why stow the anchor and rode at the bow at all? Why not do as Marlin does, and coil them into a basket or bucket, and drop and weigh anchor from the cockpit (the latter, of course, with the aid of an anchor ball)? The question would then be, where to stow the basket? Cabin space is precious. Perhaps I’ll construct a liner to drop into one of the cockpit hatches …

[mike ohlstein]

I have 1200 feet of 5/8" twisted nylon line in the rope locker and 6 feet of chain on deck. I keep several extra lengths of chain below deck. Here's a partial list of the modifications I've made and some gear that I carry.

Chain and Deck Pipe

https://www.bosunsupplies.com/S3810-0000.html

Anchor on deck

https://www.anchorexpress.com/Fortress- ... gIzZvD_BwE

Storm Anchor

https://www.anchorexpress.com/Fortress- ... gLFXPD_BwE

Storm Sea Anchor (15 foot)

http://www.seaanchor.com/sea-anchor/

Bow Cleat replacement

http://www.downwindmarine.com/Amar-Line ... 92235.html

Amidships cleat replacement

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/ft-400.htm

[Yannis]

Mike,

I like your cleats, I always wanted to change those amidships ones to save my toes, but they're damn expensive.
I would put the biggest ones possible, because when you really need them, they can make a difference. These bigger ones are yet more damn expensive.
And while I would be at it, I would add two more on the swim platform to attach the dinghy. This addition is... yet yet more damn expensive!..

[Stone Pony]

Mike:

Thank you for sharing all of those links. Very nice hardware – you obviously do not mess around with safety. And, as with anchor balls, I now know a thing or two about sea anchors!

Seems that you and I use our boats in very different ways. E.g., the closest service to offshore that Stone Pony will likely see, at least in the next few years, is coastal cruising between Maine and the Chesapeake. 9 days out of 10, she’ll be bobbing around the Sound, or anchored-up in a nearby cove. Almost a shame, I know, given her offshore pedigree. But I think of myself as steward, and, after all, she has the rest of her life ahead of her …

The folding cleats, deck pipe, and Fortress anchor are definitely for me. And with the understanding that I am essentially an inshore day boater, would you agree that I can responsibly omit some, if not all of the storm equipment? I assume the bollard is for that purpose, as well.

After looking at your website, and the work you did to Predator, I would very much like to take you up on your earlier offer to see her. Where in the Glen Cove area is she?

Thank you again.

Luke

[mike ohlstein]

I'm bringing her to Brewers Marina tomorrow, as I need to be out of the Tappen Beach marina. I may stay in the water through Thanksgiving, but definitely done after that. Brewers will pull and block her for the winter.

I'll be deer hunting next week, but any time after that is fine.

You don't need much other than some good life jackets for the sound.

[Stone Pony]

Mike,

Sounds good, thank you.

I'm at Brewer Glen Cove fairly regularly - Mark is a customer and friend of mine (I'm a marine electrician). Next time I'm there, I will stalk the Predator. If you'd like me to give you a heads up, e-mail me your cell; I'll send you mine now.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving, and a safe and enjoyable hunting trip!

Luke