Gunwale supports (35 Bertram)

[msteimer]

Gents,

One of the last glass projects before paint are the plywood supports shown in the pic below. They are tabbed into the underside of the gunwale and to the hull sides. I need a second opinion on how to attach. I know I should leave a gap between the hull sides and supports and tab them in there, but should I glue the top to the gunwale and bottom to the floor?

I want to make sure that they have enough strength to prevent excessive flex when walking on the gunwale. I can hear the fiberglass flexing/cracking underneath when you walk on them as is.

Any opinions on how to proceed would be helpful.

-Mark

https://goo.gl/photos/TNXbY1V1nSFFCDvN6

[Yannis]

Mark,

For what is shown in this pic, the two supports that I see seem perfect to me. They can support an elephant.
Are you sure the cracks that you hear are not produced by the gunwale itself, that is, the various layers of glass and/or wood sandwich that it may be constructed from ?
When I walk on the foredeck of my 28 you hear cracks underneath in the fwd cabin, but it's the layers within the deck that produce this noise, nothing structural.

[Tony Meola]

On my 31 the gunnels used to flex and added an extra support. I know that others who have removed the side panels stffened the gunnels by using glass matting. Not sure how much or exactly how the did it.

[Lars]

Mark, Yannis,

I don't know how the foredecks on these boats are cored, but that cracking noise when walking is a pretty typical symptom of internal delamination; i.e. the fiberglass losing adhesion to the core. Often caused by water ingress weakening a balsa or plywood core.

If this is the case, no amount of support will make the noise go away. If it is substantial, recoring is required.

[msteimer]

Thanks guys for the responses.

Yannis, the boat lived in south fl for about 10 years and termites made their way into the wood. I don't like living with bugs, so that's why I'm replacing them.

Tony, thanks for the info. Have thought about doing that, but as a last resort, as I'm trying to get the glasswork buttoned up and get on to the fun stuff.

Lars, decks are cored with balsa on the 35. But are bone dry and still laminated well as I've had to grind some out to patch holes...there is some delam between the roving and mat, so maybe that is where it is coming from?? So I think course of action will be to add the supports, see where she stands, and re-core/re-glass if necessary.

For the replacement supports, do you guys think I should gap the gunwales and floor with foam spacers before tabbing, or rigidly connect with epoxy and then tab.

-Mark

[Yannis]

Mark,

You dont have to reinvent the wheel.
If your supports are termite infested or you want to replace them anyway, just remove them and copy/ paste them . Certainly not to bond to the floor, as this will create other sorts of problems. Mine are teak because they are visible.

What I have been saying with my foredeck example and Lars seems to agree, is that I and perhaps you, we have a certain degree of internal delamination between the wood (balsa youre saying) and the glass layers.
So what ! These boats have gone 50 years with cracking floors, I'm sure they will outlast me even with delaminated gunwales or foredecks.
Its as if you have a problem with someone because youre bothered by the noise of his eyelids.

[Lars]

Noisy eyelids, Yannis?? Makes me kinda curious of the company you're keeping...

But yes, agree. If the deck is creaking, not flexing much and you are fairly sure that the core is dry - I wouldn't worry. The combination of creaking and flex is a bit more ominous, as it indicates a soggy or rotten core. Continued flexing could result in gelcoat cracks, worsening the water ingress. Fully possible to repair from underneath, but a messy job..

[msteimer]

Yannis,

Good analogy...I'll have to use that sometime.

The noise doesn't bother me...it's the thought of ripping everything apart again to fix in the future that bothers me. But it sounds like you guys think it'll be fine so I'll just roll with it.

Thanks again for the help.
-Mark

[Yannis]

Mark,

Try to use ALL that, otherwise wasted, space under the gunwales.
If you cover them, make access holes at the back of whatever other elements you may put infront of them.
You cannot imagine what you can fit in there!

[Tony Meola]

Mark,

Try to use ALL that, otherwise wasted, space under the gunwales.
If you cover them, make access holes at the back of whatever other elements you may put infront of them.
You cannot imagine what you can fit in there!

Mark

Yannis is correct, you can store items behind the panels. But one word of caution, make sure you put a door of some type on the opening. That way you can keep out any unwanted visitors. If you read my racoon post you will understand.

[Yannis]

Tony,

Your raccoon and my mouse a couple years back, took the short way in, that no door or hatch can stop.
Look at your SS on deck air intakes, the little holes all around the foot of the flybridge addition...the crevices around the side pannels, you name it, these bastards get in anytime.
One day I will post my anti-mouse on board measures..enough to impale an army general !!!

[Tony Meola]

Tony,

Your raccoon and my mouse a couple years back, took the short way in, that no door or hatch can stop.
Look at your SS on deck air intakes, the little holes all around the foot of the flybridge addition...the crevices around the side pannels, you name it, these bastards get in anytime.
One day I will post my anti-mouse on board measures..enough to impale an army general !!!

Yannis

You are obviously on mouse patrol. LOL