bilge pumps

[ford351c594]

so went back and read the giant post on bilge pumps and wondering if anyone has any other updates on what they use. I have 2 800s up front and one 1500 in the back. all Rules. fronts are automatic and rear is on a super float. I Justed added a tiny auto 500 in the back as well to pump out the lower level stuff.

After removing my tank and cleaning the bilge out of about 4 fill ups of my 16 gallon wet dry vac, I figured I would ask if anyone has an ideas. Boat still seems to hold a rather large amount of water.

Also, my float and pump are mounted on the block at the back of the boat so they sit kinda high. Don't have a an issue with that as they are out of the slosh zone, but that is why I added the 500 low.

any other ideas?

Was debating on using a johnson 2200 out back and an ultra switch out back, but have read different accounts of the ultra switch.

Thanks again,
Ryan

[Tony Meola]

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... ps#p118103

Ford

See if this link helps you out.

[Navatech]

Basically bilge pumps fall into 2 categories as far as I'm concerned...

1) dewatering of "nuisance" water...

2) emergency dewatering of the hull...

Though I believe the terms are self-explanatory I'm going to explain them:

"Nuisance" water is water that will occur naturally on a boat... Think of A/C condensation, rainwater and "weeping" (very minor leakages such as from the shaft gland)... The common denominator of these is that you have a sound hull but you have water in it that's mostly a "nuisance" (although given enough time this water can become a major issue)... Another common denominator is that time is NOT an issue as it doesn't matter if the pump needs 5 or 7 minutes to do it's thing... Assuming you have shore power and an onboard automatic charger (since these pumps do tend to run down the battery) I really like the automatic bilge pumps that will turn on every so often for a few seconds and will keep pumping until they sense that they're done pumping whatever was there for this application... I particularly like the Whale version because it has the closest "shave"... Another good example is the Rule version... Same ease of installation, the "shave" isn't as close but the capacity is significantly higher (though, IMHO, that's not a major consideration)...

Emergency water is water that does NOT occur naturally on a boat... Think of a burst seawater hose, a malfunctioning seacock, and a minor hull perforation... The common denominators of these is that the water in the hull is a major issue and time IS also an issue... There are two scenarios for you needing these:

A) when you're not on board... Basically this should mean that all your seacocks are shut (you do shut them before leaving the boat right?)... So really what you're dealing with would be either the result of a deluge (hurricanes are famous for being able to drop an enormous amount of water in a very short time frame) or a hull perforation... If your scuppers are somewhat blocked (e.g. leaves or other crap blown into the cockpit) this scenario can easily result in a lot of water finding its way into your hull... It could be argued that this scenario really falls in between the two basic scenarios I enumerated (nuisance and emergency)... However, because it occurs when you're not on the boat I believe it falls under the second definition of emergency...

B) when you're on the boat... Whether you're actually operating the boat or not... You could be dealing with something like a burst seawater hose or something worse... When I was in the Navy ,an engineer would walk the boat from one end to the other and visually inspect the bilge of each compartment to make sure that everything is as it's supposed to be every 3 hours... This was in addition to having an automated bilge alarm system... However, I doubt any pleasure boater would be diligent enough to do something like that... Therefore it's important to know when your bilge pumps run, how often they run and for how long they run... That means having pump running lights at every steering position... If you see that they're operating frequently it's time to investigate the cause!... It's really amazing the amount of water that will enter a hull from a semi burst 1" hose...

You'll notice that till now I haven't really mentioned a compromised hull... A hull will be compromised as the result of grounding or a collision... If a collision happens when you're not on the boat you're hosed regardless of anything... If your hull is compromised while you're on the boat the real function of the pumps is to give you enough time to device a temporary fix... Most temporary fixes will consist of somehow plugging the hull perforation (towels, mattresses etc come to mind) so that your pumps can keep up with the ingress rate of the water... Do NOT leave the shallow area unless you're absolutely sure you can keep afloat!!!... For these situations, the so-called "crash valves" are a GOOD option to have...

For a B31 my advice (keep in mind that I'm admittedly anal about this) would be to have two of the "nuisance" water pumps (if you have more then one connect them to different batteries) in the lowest part of the bilge... For the "emergency" situations I would have 2 pumps at the rear of the cockpit, 2 pumps around the middle of the boat and a single pump up front... For these I would get float operated pumps of the highest available capacity... And, again, connect half to one battery and the other half to the other battery... These pumps are relatively inexpensive and pretty easy to install so I see no reason not to go for overkill... Especially since you can never have too much pumping capacity...

[ranjr13]

Good info. A few additional points/thoughts. A high water alarm aft so you get early warning when you're running if the likely spot water is to accumulate becomes flooded, long before you notice performance deteriorating or water over floor-boards, an activity monitor for bilge pump in forward area for "nuisance" de-watering while you're away, quality of pump hoses, and in an emergency ability to convert engine(s) to bilge intake.

We installed an alarm about 6" up in the rear, right in front of the transom, just above the rear bilge pump. While underway if something bursts, it will go into alarm very early, giving you lots of time to troubleshoot and make an immediate attempt to locate before water gets so deep it's hard to find source.

For not a lot of $$, you can put a monitor that tells you how many times your forward (lowest) pump has cycled. This is especially good when you're away if there's a weeping coming from somewhere that you're not aware of.

Check your bilge pump hoses. Our pumps looked great when we got the boat, but when installing a walk-through transom door last year and removing the cover boards on the transom, the cheap ribbed hose was deteriorated in several crucial spots, reducing the effective capacity of the pump drastically. Replaced with reinforced heavy-duty hose, not the cheap thin-walled plastic stuff.

Finally, two of the best pumps you have are your engines. Ideally if you setup a Y ahead of time with a strainer, you can shut off the sea-cock and open the strainer intake - if not be ready to do it manually and fast. Search this site for some great info on setting that up. In my old 28, I hit something submerged in the CT River after dark, and wound up pulling a shaft out of the boat. In pitch black with that volume of water coming in, locating the leak was actually harder than it might seem, so water was gaining on the engines rapidly. Once plugged, the starboard engine's raw water system de-watered the boat rapidly so I could make sure that the shaft log was the only issue, then let the 12v pumps keep it in check. No question in my mind the engine saved the boat.

Things can go south real fast, even when you think you're well prepared and well practiced.

[Navatech]

ABSOLUTELY great point on the hose!... The common "el cheapo" corrugated hose is easy to install but 1) severely decreases pump capacity and 2) is crap quality wise and is easily fractured...

Talking about hoses, the capacity of these pumps is measured in a "bucket-to-bucket" scenario... I.e. zero head and mayby 1'-2' of hose... A good install has the absolute minimum of hose run length and, preferably, no hard corners...

Keep in mind that the lowest point at rest and the lowest point while running are not the same!...

[ford351c594]

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... ps#p118103

Ford

See if this link helps you out.

ton of good info, thanks I didn't read that one.

I suppose I will now look into crash valves. Also, I really want to paint to the bilge area while the tank is out, but it was so nasty, looks like someone changed the oil into and I am afraid I will never get it clean enough for the paint to stick.

[Bruce]

With a pressure washer and elbow grease you can get it clean enough to paint.

[Navatech]

With a pressure washer and elbow grease you can get it clean enough to paint.

A good degreaser will also help...

[Tony Meola]

http://p21s.com/products/bis_taw.html

Ford

Give this P 21 a try. I used it to wash the boat in the spring before waxing. It strips off a lot of crud. It is used to clean engines so it should cut that grease under the Tank.

[ford351c594]

just ordered from autogeek. They are the closest to me and they are 3 states away.

[Tony Meola]

just ordered from autogeek. They are the closest to me and they are 3 states away.

Autogeek usually gets i out pretty quickly. I'm in NJ and when I order from them on a Monday, I have it by Friday the latest.

[ford351c594]

got it yesterday. stuff works well. did the engine of my truck as well. I have been cleaning it every day and then wet dry vacuuming it out. Yesterday made 5 of cleaning and used p21, still removed a lot. Wet dry vacuumed up all the water dyed it up and started painting.

Looked fantastic..... Then a thunderstorm out of nowhere......... so about 4 or 5 hours of painting pretty much destroyed........

[Tony Meola]

Glad to hear it worked well for you. I was pretty amazed when I used it to wash the boat down before waxing. It actually made waxing easier since it cut all the crud and old wax/sealer build up.

It cut off the hull, winter marks from the cover. I always get black dirt marks on the edge of the bridge where the canvas rubs. Tough to get off usually need to use a polishing compound or Mcguires fine cut cleaner. But this stuff took it right off.

Lately I was having issues with the wax streaking on me. This year after washing the boat with Dawn and this stuff, I had no problem with the was coming off.

Good luck with the painting.

[Stephan]

so about 4 or 5 hours of painting pretty much destroyed........

Not fair- sorry to hear this!

[ford351c594]

thanks for convincing me to do it. Also that is the new tank platform glassed into the boat. I guess not that bad for my 4th time working with glass..........

before.....

[Tony Meola]

Looking good. It was worth the work.