Fuel Tank Replacement 30 Express

[Bad Dad]

Hey guys, I am looking at purchasing an '84 30 Express. My only concern is the original Fiberglass tank. The owner says he has never used E10 in it. The boat has 500 hours on a re-power and runs great. My concern is that Non-Ethanol gas is a lot harder to get in my area. That being said, I know I'll have to replace with aluminum. My question is what's the procedure for cutting the old tank out and securing the new one in. Thanks very much in advance.

[Carl]

I do not know about the 30 Express to offer any info.

I can tell you MY 1962 31 had the glass tank bedded in foam. No tabbing anyplace. (some guys did have tank tabbed on top if I recall correctly) I used a long sawblade to cut down deep as possible all around, removed rear bulkhead, used a come-along that I clamped to tank, attached to a beam I placed across gunnels, then drove wedges around till it popped free from foam. Pretty straight forward and a major pain in the arse.

Before you yank tank...check and see the formulation of resin used for your tank. Mine from 62, I knew could not handle ethanol...but I believe the formulation changed somewhere that allowed ethanol to be used. I'd hate to change a tank from glass alum which we know will only last so many years.

Good luck, hopefully someone with direct 30 knowledge will chime in for your boat specifics.

Welcome aboard!
Carl

[Bad Dad]

Thank You Carl. Any idea on how I can check for E10 compatibility?

[Navatech]

Usage of E10 started in the US in the late 70's... However, it wasn't mandated until 1992... Sorry, I have no idea whether your tank is good for ethanol... I'm also unaware of a way to test your tank's resistance to E10... Maybe others can chime in... Having said that, you'll also have to make sure your fuel lines and engines can handle E10...

Frankly, it may be inconvenient to get "honest gas" in your location but as long as it's available it might be worth the trouble...

[Carl]

Thank You Carl. Any idea on how I can check for E10 compatibility?

Guys were calling factory, looking for decals, it may have been after a certain year...even then not sure to what degree of compatibility they where rated...I think one of our New members used to be involved with the process at Bertram?? I'm not really sure, all hearsay to me.
In truth, the point at which the formulation was changed didn't matter to me as I knew my tank was not compatible with the alcohol...or maybe I should say it was too overly compatible, in that tank was dissolving, becoming one with my fuel...till it hit the engine.

Maybe one of the guys will chime in with specifics...or you can look back in the Ethanol Section. Go way back or try a search.

[Tony Meola]

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8678

Under the Ethanol section you will find a number of posts, but from what you will find it looks like tanks from the mid 80's on have a different glass formulation that resists ethanol. The issue is that unless you have the original label on the top of the tank you will not know. When the label was on mine, it said not Methanol rated.

To remove the tank, since most are foamed in, some guys have used piano wire to run down the sides of the tank to cut the foam. Some were lucky and when they lifted the tank, it popped without lifting the boat. One of the guys in my Marina, following Capt. Pat's instructions, hammered wedges under the tank after he cut the foam. He said it popped easier than he thought it would.

Hope this helps.

[Yannis]

I wonder how many 30 express were ever made... 10? 20? 30? I wouldn't think more than that!
If you are on the market for such a model, and manage to find one, you're very lucky !

Enjoy your new boat!!

[Navatech]

I wonder how many 30 express were ever made... 10? 20? 30? I wouldn't think more than that!

According to Pascoe several hundred were made... His review is here: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/ ... xpress.htm

[Yannis]

Pascoe talks about the fbc, which he erroneously calls express.
There is also a real "express" without a flying bridge; if this is the one Bad Dad is referring to, then there should be very very few made.

[bertram 20]

I have a 1986 28 FBC i replaced my tank the old tank was 240 gallon and said right on the label not to be used with Ethanol/ Alchol fuels, getting it out mine was a little difficult i totally drained it and then filled with water to get out any fuel vapor and then cut the top off and the proceeded to just cut away at sections of it until it was all removed

[Yannis]

I also have a 1973 B28.
When I do a complete refill, I cannot squeeze-in more than 550 lt, or 150 gl. The tank is still the original one and there seems no space left around for a bigger tank.
I don't understand how you can have 28's with 240 gls! Have they changed the tank size by soooo much? Where did they find the space to do so?

[Tony Meola]

Be careful changing tank size. Even if you have the room, you are adding weight and if you add too much she may sit too low in the water and if you have gas engines it may drag the stern a bit.

On the 31 with the 220 gallon tank you can squeeze in a tank that is around 250 without any issues.

[Carl]

Be careful changing tank size. Even if you have the room, you are adding weight and if you add too much she may sit too low in the water and if you have gas engines it may drag the stern a bit.

On the 31 with the 220 gallon tank you can squeeze in a tank that is around 250 without any issues.

Definitely noticed the weight on my 31 going from 170 to 220. Glad I decided not to add more by extending tank back further.

[Bad Dad]

Thanks for all of the tips. I did end up buying this boat, a 30 Express, no FBC. It seems like the perfect combination of fishing boat and weekender. Job 1 will be to cut the tank out and getting an aluminum tank made. From Virginia Beach, I'm still a good 60 miles from 100 fathoms so I'll still be looking to carry extra fuel somehow.

[Tony Meola]

Thanks for all of the tips. I did end up buying this boat, a 30 Express, no FBC. It seems like the perfect combination of fishing boat and weekender. Job 1 will be to cut the tank out and getting an aluminum tank made. From Virginia Beach, I'm still a good 60 miles from 100 fathoms so I'll still be looking to carry extra fuel somehow.

For carrying extra gas, there is only one safe way. Put in saddle tanks. Did the carry fuel deal when I was young and did not know better. Too scary now. We actually had a set up in which we carried the fuel in a 15 gallon drum and had it plumbed right into one engine. When you went through 30 gallons we would be just about in the Hudson Canyon.

Better yet go diesel, much safer.

I am not familiar with the 30 but I bet you can get the tank extended to hold another 20 to 30 gallons without an issue.

[Navatech]

I'm still a good 60 miles from 100 fathoms so I'll still be looking to carry extra fuel somehow.

Many people will tell you fuel bladders are a good solution... Personally I think they have their place but... Gas is a liquid so why is it called gas?!... It's called gas because it evaporates (gasifies) at very low temperatures... Just about any boating weather will have temperatures above gas' boiling (gasification) point... Once it's a gas all you need to create an explosive mixture is 4% of gas by volume in the fuel/air mixture... Can you say BOOM?!... Once again, I'm not saying fuel bladders are not doable... Just don't get complacent... Also, either tie in the bladder into your fuel system or make sure you're only transferring fuel from the bladder into your tank when the boat is completely shut down... No smoking, no running generator no nothing!... Just as if you were at the fuel dock!...

I certainly would NOT recommend barrels, jerrycans or anything like that...

Since you're indicating that this isn't something you need as a once in a blue moon thing your BEST solution is to fit the largest possible tank in the place where you're removing the old fiberglass tank from... If that's still not enough you'll have to add additional tankage... Saddle tanks (between the engine and the hull) are one option... Under the deck (if you can find/make the space) is another option... Either way, additional tanks have to be "hardwired" into your fuel system... And don't forget the law of communicating vessels!...

[Bad Dad]

Great advice, thanks very much.

[Tooeez]

Because of the deep v design the bottom of the fuel tank is bathed in bilge water every time the boat goes on plane. With the glass tank, no problem--with aluminum, even coated, the salt can't be good. And once it's in you can't inspect the bottom of the tank. When I replaced the tank on my 79 28 FBC I cut the glass tank down to about 4 inches above the stringers it was glassed to (Bertram put it in so securely it might as well have been one piece with the stringers) and then used the bottom of the old tank as a mount for the aluminum replacement tank. I had the new tank made the same tapered shape as the original, but about 3/4 inch smaller side to side so it fits into the old base like a fat gal in a bathtub. I foamed the new tank into the old base and glassed the edges of the old tank to the sides of the new one so no water could get between the two. That was 10 years ago, and so far, so good . . .
If you do use the old tank as a base be sure to install a 3/8 pipe plug in the aft end right at the bottom. Aluminum sweats, and that water will build up under the new tank. It's fresh, so corrosion isn't an issue, but you wouldn't want it to freeze between the tanks in the winter.