Why I am not a member of "The Hull Truth"

[IRGuy]

Just saw this post yesterday. I understand that we all started somewhere, but as I write this "Stevethebrain" (very appropriate name) has posted on THT 298 times, and has been a member since 2012. Wouldn't you have thought that he would have learned enough in that time that he wouldn't need to ask such a dumass question?

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ights.html

Anybody who needs to ask such a dumb question should be forced to take a basic boating course!

[Carl]

Anybody who needs to ask such a dumb question should be forced to take a basic boating course!

Personally I think we are at the point everyone should be required to pass a basic boating test...the ability to buy or be given a boat is not a great indicator.

Know how to handle a boat, navigate a boat, grasp an basic understanding of weather issues, boat handling in confined quarters, what to do in an emergency...how to anchor, boating regulations...

For those that know, a breeze of a test. But someone new to boating...at least they have an basic idea before they pull out of the slip. A small runabout to a 30-40-50' foot boat can hurt alot of people...

It's a freedom Id give up to know people at least have some ability and knowledge.

[captbone]

It is scary when you really interact with the general boating public because the extreme vast majority really have no clue.

[moguls2go]

Personally I think we are at the point everyone should be required to pass a basic boating test...the ability to buy or be given a boat is not a great indicator.

Couldn't agree more! It's a shame how many folks I've met/encountered who have no clue what they're doing. It's frustrating for me, but can be really dangerous for them (and me too, depending on the situation)... I think one of the great things about spending time on the water is the continual opportunity to learn!

I met a guy who had a brand new Whaler across from me a few years ago... not too big, maybe 20', and he had absolutely no idea how to do anything, starting with how to attach his lines to the cleats. My neighbor was selling his old lobster boat and mentioned to a potential buyer that the boat had 100 fathoms of anchor line... when the buyer asked what that was, my neighbor cut off the conversation and said he wouldn't sell him the boat for fear he'd kill himself! Too bad that Whaler owner didn't try to buy his boat from my neighbor.

[Stephan]

I like to think a lot of posts are made after, after dinner. I also believe thehulltruth evidences something like with the British refer to as separation by a common language as some posts are likely not proof read.
I've asked too many dumb questions to throw any stones...
I think that site is a nice compliment to what I find elsewhere and I have been introduced to some good vendors there.
Kind regards,
Stephan

[Carl]

I'm sure we can all swap stories for hours about things we have seen newbies do with their boats.

Some funny, some scary...


I know one guy that found his way into his own first real boat. He was a know it all, family had boats since before he was a twinkle in his parents eye.
New to him boat was a fairly new Bayliner, 19'. One of the first things he decided to do was install a 2nd bilge pump. knowing the keel of boat was the thickest part, it would go there. He marked location, grabbed his trusty cordless drill, lined up to mark..touched the trigger and drill bit went right thru the bottom. Oh Sh$t, he yelled, pulled drill out and now it was a geyser. He knew for sure he was going down after only having boat one day. What to do, what to do...A mayday...but boat is at dock...do you call mayday or dockmaster....
Then I realized it was only a little hole, I had silicone and a screw. Dab of silicon on screw, screwed pump in place, ran the hose and that was my 1st story being new to boating.

We all start somewhere...

[IRGuy]

Many years ago we lived in a town next to Marblehead, MA.. supposedly the yachting center of the northeast. One day a couple of friends and I took my 24' Grady from our YC to the Marblehead Town Dock so we could walk uptown and get some lunch. We tied up to a big float and saw a Rinker, about 28-30' approach the dock behind my boat. The operator backed and filled and had all kinds of problems,. but finally got up to the float and tied up near us. We went off and had lunch. When we returned the Rinker was gone, and there was a new piece of line attached the float cleat just ahead of the one I was tied to, extending from the cleat on the float straight down into the water. Thinking the line looked new one of my friends went to retrieve it. When he hauled it up he found about 15' of dock line and a new deck cleat with a chunk of the Rinker's deck attached to it.

[ford351c594]

while a bit frightening, I agree we all start somewhere.

I remember the first time I docked "R". detents in velvet drive were a bit weak.... pulled up nice and slow. reversed a bit success!!!! Thought it was out of gear.... well one was..... crammed the back of the boat dam near under the dock pushing the first 4 planks up in to the air and yanked the cleat right off the front of the dock. This was at the prop stop down by me. probably about 250 people watched me do this.........


I hope the guy asking about navigation lights is as embarrassed as I was that day....

it was a great learning experience. I tend to look back for prop wash every time now, and I installed new detents..............

[Tony Meola]

Frank

The real reason to not post or read the Hull Truth too much is not because of questions like this, but more the sniping that goes on. Ask a decent question and you will always get some turkey putting you down and starting an argument. In fact most sites are like that.

Amazing how nice it is here. We joke, we kid, but we are always here for each other. Especially in time of real need and there are those here who can attest to that.

Now, as for this question, we all start some place and it is with the help of those in the know can help those starting out how to be a better and safer boater. Better to really help this guy out and guide him to take a class than to beat him up.

When I took the NJ mandatory boating class a few years ago, I could not believe the questions coming out of one guy who claimed he had been boating for years. But there are always those that will never learn.

Oh I forgot, one other reason to not frequent the Hull Truth too much is that they are all Bertram haters.

[Howesounder]

We now have a boater licence requirement here in Canada. Test is pretty much a joke, and I am not sure it accomplishes much at all. Really agree with many of the posts here that it's sort of up to us boaters to help each other as much as we can. Also agree strongly that you Bertram bunch distinguish themselves from many other such sites, by not being at the ready to be miserable.

[Charlie J]

I got off that site years ago
as tony stated

[ranjr13]

Let me say that I have nothing but respect for the regular contributors on this site. The experience and wealth of knowledge is remarkable and I feel fortunate to have been welcomed into the group. That said, I hate to lose an opportunity to share knowledge when someone is asking a question. You have one chance to make a first impression, and if that impression is that you or your peers are elitist, then you will likely never get asked a second question.

The poster may have used ambiguous terms in describing his question, but his later post confirms he was not talking about nav lights, but a suitable replacement for docking lights. In reading all the responses there, and on this site, it made me wonder why I can't remember ever being blinded by docking lights (they are most always pointed down) but how I can remember being blinded at least once on every nighttime run by a spot light. My belief is that the majority of boaters use the spotlight to get their bearings when they get nervous at night, and that means identifying every light or shape in the dark, moving it willy-nilly all over the place, blinding everyone with their kazillion candlepower remote controlled night vision killer. Clicking on docking lights (be they marine brand, or possibly a LED set that might also be found in an auto parts store) might be a safer option.

I agree that boaters, especially at night, should be proficient in traditional navigation, and use available technology. I am fortunate to have a new broad-band radar unit on my 31, and even a Flir thermal imaging camera. While practicing this summer in the Essex mooring field in the CT River, I was amazed to pickup a kayak who's light had gone out crossing the main channel. I saw them on radar, and on the Flir. If I didn't have those, and was moving through, I can see nothing wrong with bumping on and off docking or LED forward looking lights with no other boats around. In fact, if "stevethebrain" were in the area, I'd much rather have him using them discretely and not hitting something or someone.

I joined this site about a year ago. I had several questions. One was on mounting docking lights, new LED versions as I didn't want to put large holes in our 31. The majority of responses was not to help, but to give opinions and talk down at the idea. One person emailed me directly with guidance. I asked him many more questions back and forth. Every time I asked a question, he would never talk down to me, belittle me, or make me feel anything other than completely comfortable in asking more questions. That's the kind of contributor I want to be for those who have similar questions. My only wish is that I could still ask that extremely helpful, down to earth member of this group questions but he's not here anymore and that hurts.

Lets make sure we're trying to be like Capt. Pat, seizing every opportunity to promote the Bertram brand, image, and help others be just a bit better on the water. Keep up the good work. Happy and safe holidays to all the Bertram faithful.

[PeterPalmieri]

I don't like the hull truth for the same reason I generally don't hang around the dock when I take the boat somewhere. Generally everyone is smarter then you are, they have more money then you do and all they want to do is tell you why. Often after having consumed to much alcohol.

We all see inexperienced boaters, it is good to help them along when they aren't know it all's as we've all been there at some point. But in general we make inland plans on holiday weekends in the summer. Knowing the rules tend to be less important then trying to asses if the approaching vessel does and just getting the heck out of the way when it is apparent they do not. Same goes for internet forums...

[Carl]

One thing about being here compared to THT is that here we are all in the same boat...pun intended.



Personally I like to laugh with people, starting with myself. Some find that difficult as they take themselves way too seriously. In boating I do not think you can do that...each new learning experience can be met with an attitude of...No, I never goofed or "Yeah, I drilled a hole right thru the bottom of my boat...in the water. Sh$t happens...share it, maybe someone will think twice before trying the same thing.
In all honestly...I didn't learn from my first hole thru the bottom of that boat. A couple months later I decided to mount pole racks to the inside wall of that boat. Found some heavy molded ribs and double checked screw length would not go thru. Got that trusty drill again and mounted the two brackets, four screws, nice job I thought. Leaving the boat I saw I had 4 screws protruding through the hull. The lesson I learned...don't buy a Bayliner with a 1/8" hull...those ribs I thought were re-enforcement ribs...turned out to be just the 1/8" molded fiberglass hull. Maybe the second thing...don't assume, it bites ya every time.


ranjr13...Bob,
I think we have a good group of people here...but everyone will have their own viewpoint. For me I think that is one of the greatest things. Differing opinions, views and thoughts coming from people I respect. If I post a question and someone can offer a reason I should second guess my desire...I want to hear about that before I install, buy or modify. I listen to all and form my own decision based on all info as a whole. I think it is much worse to get done with whatever and realize your unhappy with results only to have people chime in..."Yeah, I didn't like for the same reason" at that point it is a dollar short and a day late. I take all responses in that light...well meaning insight to what they have learned over their time...not answers meant to belittle or talk down the idea.

I will agree, when wanting an answer, they can be slow in coming waiting on the right person to come along...also topics can morph a bit along the way.

...the Capt was a special man for sure.

[Navatech]

Yes, our sandbox is different from most of not all other boating sites... But, like elsewhere on the internets, you get what you pay for... Just because something is posted somewhere on the internets doesn't mean it's true or correct... I have seen major errors even on "professional" sites (e.g. boat diesel.com)...

By all means, use the internets to do your research but don't forget to properly evaluate the data that you happen to find...

As for the knowledge level of boaters, most if not all US states now require a minimal boat safety course if you were born after a certain date (basically that means that if you're under 30 years old)... While certainly a step in the right direction I don't think it's sufficient... A few years ago I went with a friend to help out a friend of his... The friend of the friend was over 50 (so exempted from any minimum requirements) and had just bought his first boat... A 40' Post...

Leaving the dock was OK... Underway I was flabbergasted by the lack of knowledge... The boat owner/operator was basically completely ignorant of ALL the colregs!... He had absolutely no frigging idea what he was doing... At that point the guy had no business operating a boat of any size!...

I asked my friend about the nature of his friendship with the boat owner/operator and felt it wouldn't be much of a problem if I somehow stepped on his toes so I sat down with him and had a serious talk with him... I'm happy to say that he was very receptive to the criticism and went on to take several of the "power squadron" courses as per my suggestion...

Most countries in the world put boat operating to certain minimum regulatory requirements... Said requirements are usually subject to the boat's size and power... While some countries have over regulated boat operation the vast majority have found a balance that I feel is appropriate...

[Rawleigh]

I was forced to waste a day of my life in a mandatory boating class this summer with my stepson. One guy there asked what happened when there was less water than your boat drew!! My 14 year old stepson almost burst from trying not laugh out loud!

[Carl]

I was forced to waste a day of my life in a mandatory boating class this summer with my stepson. One guy there asked what happened when there was less water than your boat drew!! My 14 year old stepson almost burst from trying not laugh out loud!

It is a lousy course...but maybe the guy that asks that question learned to sniff his bilge at the fuel dock your filling up at; before he starts his boat.


I hear you about wasted time...I took it early on when I realized my wife needed to learn some things about boating. So I signed us up along with a couple other couples that we hung out with. I did enjoy and learn some about navigation and plotting courses. A few laughs and yes we had a few intellects asking questions like the one you mentioned. The first couple questions your thinking they are joking ...right? and it hits, they are serious.

[Amberjack]

I submit this event Monday from the Pacific NW for our "clueless boater" thread. Notice after the collision the boat immediately resumes it's compass heading.

http://gcaptain.com/caught-on-camera-cl ... ate-ferry/

[Howesounder]

This boater has to be both on autopilot......and toilet, me thinks. Oh the shame.

If nothing else, the "tests" and "courses" might at least highlight an expectation of knowledge and safety on the water. As for this particular site we are blessed to be on, it can not be overstated that finding a site where knowledge is shared with grace, humility and good humour, and such a distinct lack of meanness is rare. Reminding ourselves of that from time to time, is a great practice to ensure it stays that way.

Steve

[Carl]

I submit this event Monday from the Pacific NW for our "clueless boater" thread. Notice after the collision the boat immediately resumes it's compass heading.

http://gcaptain.com/caught-on-camera-cl ... ate-ferry/

Not a totally clueless boater...he got the name right.

Thinking not a badly made boat either...don't look bad for hitting a ferry.

[Tony Meola]

I really think they should force yu to take the full Power Squadron or Coast Guard Aux. basic course. It has been a while since I took it, but I believe it was an 8 week course and was about 2 hours an evening.

Much better than what they make you do now in NJ in 8 hours. At least they taught you how to navigate. They really need to develop a better course.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

I agree Tony. I was brought up on the Power Squadron. My father and mother both taught classes two nights a week, my father was the Commander of the Watchung branch for a while. I learned to use the sextant and plot my courses, dead reckoning, safety, lights and rules, etc. all before I was 15.

It didn't seem that there were as many crazies back then, but there were fewer boaters also. I did, however, have many opportunities to tow stranded boats back to their marina, pull sailboats out of shallows, and even ferry some (luckily uninjured) souls to safety after running their boat up on a marshy island one dark night. I'm sure we all have our stories.

That being said, navigating our inland waterways has become like driving on the Parkway or Turnpike. Everyone wants to go as fast as they can, screw the laws. The safe boating classes and even the Power Squadron and Coast Guard classes will teach one the basics. If they want to learn. Most see it as an inconvenience to endure and then promptly forget or confuse what they have learned. Common courtesy is no longer the norm. I know it is not enforced, but, how many times have we given way to boats traveling with the current with limited room for maneuverability at the railroad bridge while having the guy behind us honking and screaming that we are assholes for slowing him down.

I'm sure there are some really knowledgeable, helpful boaters on the other site, and on the water, but it's a chore to weed through the chaff.

[Bruce]

Anyone remember the Mechanical board?

Praise the Lord for sites like the Hull Truth, it has its place.

[Tommy]

Ah yes, the Mechanical Board. What I remember is how you would respond to a question with a very concise and straightforward answer, and then posters would bombard you with "what about..." and "what if..." questions. Some of those threads morphed into a series of domino questions that you could not extract yourself from. I still don't know how you kept it up as long as you did. I really enjoyed the one's that started out: "I am a professional marine mechanic, BUT............".

[Tony Meola]

The old board, ah yes. I even remember way back when I first found this group when the board had a different name. It fails me know. I did not join then, as I used to sneak a peak in the evening while trapped in the office. Then one day I could not find it as it was replaced with the bertram31 site.

[Tony Meola]

Joe

Nothing will stop these turkeys from screaming and yelling for no reason. When I slipped in one of the Forked River marina's, I had to continue down river pass my slip due to boat traffic coming up the other way and I could not postion myself to back in. I had a Sail boat about 300 feet behind me when I spun around to head back up river. The guy starts yelling at me, he wanted to know why I did that, he yells out "what do you think I have brakes."

For one he was making a wake but that is another story but with a 300 foot span in a no wake zone he had plenty of time for me to spin and him to pass safely. Since he was under power I was going to ask him if he ever heard of reverse but I figured why bother. No current no wind and they can't figure out how to stop forward motion.

That is what we have boating today.