Anyone have any comments please as to the apparent visual condition of these props on my B28?
I'd be interested to hear any comments from those more knowledgeable than me, I see two old props in usable condition....the guys at my local yard have all but written my obituary.........
No worries as to zincs to be installed and the small rudders or the starboard strut missing some filler between it and the hull!
Preston,
To my eye it looks like you have some stray current corrosion problems, anytime I see shiny props or shades of pink or pink spots on the bronze, I start to suspect stray current. I would have a marine electrician check you slip area for signs of 110 volt leakage around your slip or from your boat or neighboring vessels. Have him use a Corrosion meter with a silver iodide bulb that is submersed into the water with a meter that measures in mille volts the meter is made by Guest it costs around $100.
Also check your prop blades for signs of pitting into the blade surfaces. A sure sign of stray current corrosion.
Pete Fallon
Pete & Tony: Thanks, I'll check my 12V & 120V systems........not too hard right now as I sank during Hurricane Matthew so only have a 12V bilge pump jury rigged right now!
Those are my spare props which have been sitting in boxes in a storage shed since 2004 by the way..........the props which were on the boat when she went under were similar with the pink discolouration..........but no pitting if my eyes saw correctly, I will have another look at them and post photos for interest and comments - the starboard prop took the brunt of the sinking weight wise as she settled and its 3 blades all folded over....perhaps it was weakened by electrolysis?
In fact come to think of it since 2001 the props have shown that pinkish / mauve 'glaze', whenever I'd not run the boat for a while or wet sanded the props it would appear.
Pete: I hope your knees are giving you a bit of a respite and your wife is doing ok........I wince for you when you post your latest knee news and admire your grin and bear it attitude.
I won't be able to replicate the in water conditions to test for stray currents at my dock slip as I have moved from it for good now, I had checked a few years back and nothing showed in water stray current wise..........but mind you my test was of the You Tube variety..........
The only reason I am skeptical as to stray current causing the props 'colour' is no other underwater gear is affected.......stainless steel clamps on the exhaust flappers and trim tab hose connections all fine and the other bronze underwater hardware, engine cooling water intakes and through hulls for salt water washdown and head discharge [straight overboard here!] showing no 'colour' or apparent degradation.
And.........at the previous dock slip any marine growth on the wood pilings would show the same pink/mauve colour........as if some type of 'coral' growth...............or on the other hand any stray electrical current may have been causing that 'growth' by whatever reaction.............
These are the 17x16 props that were in use until recently.... as taken of to exchange for the older 17x17 props in the above photos......the 'clean' prop with the folded blades is the prop that was buried in sand during the sinking.............
Carl: The prop fellow said that prop started to 'disintegrate' as he began to clean it up, that's when the 'chunks out' came to be for it....weakened I assume by whatever electrolysis was going on.
Preston how long was the boat submerged? Possible that this happened due to shorts occuring in the system at that time.
I would suggest that you trace back each 12 volt source. For that you need an Ohm meter. You need to disconnect the batteries and shut off all 12 volt electric. Hook up the ohm meter and turn on each device one by one while shutting them off one by one. As an example, turn on the front bilge pump, take your ohm readings. A good pump will have a resistance on the ohm meter. Actually that should be in the instructions of the device such as 120 ohm rating. If you get a "0" reading you have an issue with that device or wiring going to the device. Then shut that item off and move on to the next one until you check all the systems.
If you do not find your issue then it happening on the AC side, either yours or the docks or a neighbors.
When our 31 was only a couple of years old we had an issue with eating up zincs every two weeks. The above procedure is how we found our problem. It was a bad bilge pump. Replaced the pump and the problem went away.
Tony: She was submerged for 6 nights and 5 days.........as I mentioned I only have a single bilge pump hooked up directly to its own dedicated battery for now so will check that and go from there as I bring other wiring etc. back to life!
Whatever the case I think it is safe to assume the issue was pre-submersion.
On a happier note I now have the boat back in the water after hull repairs at the boatyard so can get on with bringing the engines back to life!
Preston:
Sorry to hear about your boat sinking during the hurricane.
I suggest that you replace all the 12 volt and 110 volt wiring in the boat along with all the breakers at the panel. The boat was down for 6 days with the 12 volt system cooking everything metal in the boat. As I tell others the 110 volt system if over 15 years old needs to be replaced because of the dried out insulation inside the black jacketed 3 wire that feeds the 110 volt system all the way from the shore power inlet via the battery charger to each 110 outlet. The 12 volt system was a nightmare to begin with all the old single #8 wire has to be replaced. Use a good quality marine grade boat cabling rated for at least 600 degrees (stamped on the outer jacket). Heat shrinked epoxy connectors are a must and support the wire every 18'' with wire ties with the holes for #8 SS screws. I found that Blue Seas makes a very nice 110 -12volt panel board also Paneltronics makes a good combo unit also. Install a minimum of 3 -2200 GPH Johnson pumps with Ultma auto float switches and use 1-1/4" discharge hoses with the least amount of bends possible.
Your looking at a good amount of labor unless you do it yourself and at least $3,000.00 in wire and panel boards, battery switches, wire ties screws and battery chargers. Also if your shore power cord went down with the boat you will need to get a new one, asking for problems if you try and used the one that got wet. If you had bonding wires replace all the green #8 wire with new .
As for the props you need to get new ones, which run around $1500 for a pair.
All I can say is at least it happened late in the season and hopefully you will be ready for the spring launch.
Good Luck
Pete Fallon
Actually on the Saturday and Sunday after Hurricane Matthew I was diving in and around the boat retrieving some gear I did not want to 'float' away and all was fine............I did do a toe test first..........in retrospect I probably would not dive again as I did, moreso because I did not have a spotter.......not only was I young and stupid but now I am older and still stupid!
I only had 1 battery hooked up to the boat pre-Hurricane and I had disconnected the shore power - based on what I see of the wiring and terminals etc. they don't show signs of any major damage, but who knows what unseen damage etc.......all wiring will be replaced regardless and as Pete has commented.......which reminds me I need to get myself a new heat gun.
As Pete suggested pull all the wire since it got wet. Problem is that the salt water wicks up the insulation and will short out the wires. Worse than sinking would be a fire.
I replaced my 12 volt panel with a Blue Seas panel and my 110 is Paneltronics. Paneltronics will customize a panel for you and with Blue Seas it is basically a Chinese Menu allowing you to build almost anything.
If you need a wire source and I am not sure if they ship overseas I have the best prices from the following:
I usually price out each site before I purchase. I have found some big differences between them in pricing for the same wire. It will vary for each one depending on copper prices. Right now copper is down so a good time to buy. I also use them for all my connections and also try Del City https://www.delcity.net/, sometimes they have items you need the others don't. I have found that their prices are not as good as the others but if you care about name brands for the wire, you will have a better chance of receiving Anchor wire from them. At one time they owned Anchor. They do carry a good selection of wiring tools and switches and connections that the others do not.
Somewhat related....the port side shaftlog's nut in the shaftlog tunnel has come loose.......
I've stopped the leak with CRC brand Minute Mend beaded around the exterior of the nut in the shaftlog on the in water side.
Obviously a full repair/replacement needs doing out of the water.
Can someone tell me what the Bertram OEM configuration for their shaftlogs was?
Seems to be a threaded bronze tube epoxied in to the fibreglass tunnel with an interior and exterior nut with the stuffing box between the interior nut and shaft coupling?
Preston,
The original Bertram OEM parts were made by either earliest modes were Wilcox Chittenden in the 1960's after that was Perko or Groco then Buck Algonquin, Shaft tubes were bronze that were thru bolted with # 8 bolts, nut sizes varied from 1-1/4" up to 1-1/2" Flax packing glands were the norm until PSSI came in the in the early 90's. Shafts were either Monel which were special ordered or Aquamet 19 or 22 Stainless steel. Capt. Pat made a great heavy wall PVC pipe glassed into the hull bottom with PSSI dripless water cooled shaft seals. Some of the early 31's were fitted with intermediate shaft strut bearings just aft of the exit tube , this was to prevent the shafts from snapping because of the long shaft length over 106 " with low profile shafts that were only 9-1/2" to the middle of the shaft barrel. The shallower the shaft angle the quicker the boat gets up on plane. I had my struts built by Buck Algonquin in 1994 when I found some small cracks in the thin wall barrels, I had Buck make the barrels a little heavy so that they could be bored out for up to 1-3/4" if I ever went to diesels from the big block 454 throttle bodied fuel injected Mercruiser's.
As far as the difference between stainless steel and bronze rudders are just a matter of personnel preference. The rudders should be large enough so that the 31 tracks straight at low speeds and on one motor. Just make sure that they are bonded to the internal copper strip that is glassed into the center stringers.
You have your work cut out for you this winter but it will be well worth the effort in the long run;. I wish I still had my 31, but the knee issue is still preventing me from doing anything related to boating including my surveying, I can't even climb a ladder to get in and out of a vessel.
Pete Fallon
Here's the shaftlog that is leaking............the nut is loose on the 'in water' side...........an age related failure I assume, but I am very perplexed as I looked at it when I was on the hard in the boat yard and saw nothing out of the ordinary........the leak started after being towed from the boat yard to my house:
Preston,
It looks like the stray current corrosion has attacked the threads on the bronze nut that continues back to the shaft log tube. The nut is attached to a threaded nipple under the short piece of hose with the clamps on it. I hate to tell you but that entire shaft log, packing gland area needs to be replaced.
I have some good friends in Nassau old time Bahamians named Mike Sr Mike Jr.and Chris Maura surveyed a bunch of boats for them over the years. Do you know the family?
Get some Corrision X in the Red can they sell it at Boat Owners Warehouse in Riviera Beach on Broadway(RT1) It will make loosening rusted parts a lot easier it's around $20.00 a can but well worth it. Bruce used to be a distributor he still might have some left. Make sure you replace all the bonding wire drops that go to bronze underwater fittings. The boat still looks good for being under for 6 days.
Pete Fallon
And I'm figuring to replace the entire shaft packing assembly,I need to source the parts......Lewis Marine I am thinking.
Fortunate no hull damage aside from the dive platform during the sinking,all repaired now.....and a lot of clean up etc. to do yet.
Thanks for your comments and advice, the mean team have been quiet on this one.
By the way I am in Coral Harbour here,finally found a property last year I could afford on the water! Just in time for Hurricane Matthew..... but no major worries there.
Preston, on my 1979 28 I have nylon stuffing boxes on the shafts. I bought the boat from the original owner 29 years ago, so I am pretty sure they are OEM--everything else in my setup is the same as your picture. The nylon has worked fine all these years, and with no corrosion issues.
Will do..........as with everything in life the longer it's around the more of a pain in the ass it becomes [using Photobucket, what with all the ads etc now!]
