Man overboard line

[Yannis]

What is the optimal length of the "man overboard" line, which is attached to the ring or lifesaver?
I find the properly rolled floating line to just be ridiculous...experience shows that 11 out of 10 times this line will form a messy lump and just become useless.
I have seen a reel type thing on sailboats that sort of guarantees the even feed, but I dont know if its practical and how long the line should be. And where to put i? All the way aft? On the bridge?
Thanks.

[Navatech]

What is the optimal length of the "man overboard" line, which is attached to the ring or lifesaver?
I find the properly rolled floating line to just be ridiculous...experience shows that 11 out of 10 times this line will form a messy lump and just become useless.
I have seen a reel type thing on sailboats that sort of guarantees the even feed, but I dont know if its practical and how long the line should be. And where to put i? All the way aft? On the bridge?

The length is actually less important then the technique used... There's only so far you can throw a line...

There's actually a special (though not that hard to do) technique to throwing an heaving line (that's the line with the weighted end)... When you know how to do it and practice once in a while 15-20 meters (45' to 60') is quite possible (as a minimum)... Do it wrong and you end up with a basically useless messy lump... Youtube has several videos showing how it's done...

However, in a MOB situation every second moves your boat further away from the person so that's not the right solution for most people... The solution that works best for most people is one wherein the rope is contained in a container... There are two types:

1) Something like this where the rope container is stationary and a weight (in the form of a sling) is attached to end of the rope:



2) Something like this where the rope container (and the line in it) serves as the weight:



(both images are clickable links to the respective product pages)

I have fooled around repeatedly with both variations and I like the 2nd type better... They're also cheap enough to have several onboard... One on the flybridge, one in the cockpit and one on the bow...

Of course, if you really want to go overboard (pun intended) there's this option:



This particular one is pneumatic but there are also pyrotechnic versions...

[ranjr13]

We trained with throw bags, pre-set rings, etc. on our local FD rescue boat crew and even with practice anything with a line attached was useless 75% of the time. I"m a firm believer in nothing attached to the first thing that gets thrown to the person in the water - much better chance of getting it to them so they'll have flotation. That buys you the time to slow down, turn around, get lines ready, ladders ready etc. So before doing anything, even before slowing down, you grab a throwable PFD, cushion, anything so it winds up as close as possible to whom ever went in. That said, if you're trying then to get a line, we used 50' lines - anything more and you can't throw accurately. Throw bags, even tiny ones, work best - feeding the line in blind, not coiling it inside the bag.

[Navatech]

We trained with throw bags, pre-set rings, etc. on our local FD rescue boat crew and even with practice anything with a line attached was useless 75% of the time. I"m a firm believer in nothing attached to the first thing that gets thrown to the person in the water - much better chance of getting it to them so they'll have flotation. That buys you the time to slow down, turn around, get lines ready, ladders ready etc. So before doing anything, even before slowing down, you grab a throwable PFD, cushion, anything so it winds up as close as possible to whom ever went in. That said, if you're trying then to get a line, we used 50' lines - anything more and you can't throw accurately. Throw bags, even tiny ones, work best - feeding the line in blind, not coiling it inside the bag.

ranjr13 actually raises a very valid point... My procedure for the MOB situation is to 1st mark the spot (using the MOB function) on my plotter (assuming I'm on the bridge, if I'm not I leave that to the watch keeper), then I sound the MOB alarm (3 long blasts on the horn) then I throw some floatable stuff... I have a full size lifebuoy, a soft float and a standard (i.e. non inflatable) PFD in readiness exactly for that purpose...

I do NOT bother doing the "turn into the MOB side" thing to move the meat grinding devices (a.k.a. propellers) away from the MOB as considering the length of our boats and normal human reaction times the MOB will already be behind the stern at practically any speed...

When I do have guests aboard I do make certain to run a short "welcome on board" speech... Which includes some stuff like MOB procedures, head procedures, galley procedures, docking procedures and so forth... A very important part of the MOB procedure is that (if there's more then 2 of you onboard) is that the person that witnesses the MOB DOES alerts at least one other crew member but from that point on their SOLE duty is to keep eye contact with the MOB (and keep pointing towards the MOB...

Personally I wear my auto-inflatable PFD all the time (and it has a PLB attached to it) when outside... Everybody under 15 is similarly required to wear their PFD's when outside... All PFD's have whistles attached... I also have 3 Raymarine MOB alarm devices that the 3 youngest people (under 15) on board get to wear... If there's a spare then any dog will get it...

[Yannis]

Nav and ranjr,

Thanks for the thorough explanations and alternatives.

After what you've explained, I think I'll get two throw bags, one at the bridge and one in the cockpit, and I'll ditch my two existing MOB floats that are attached each to a coiled orange floating line (which as we all here agree, is only good for nothing).
I will also keep these two rigid floats, without the lines attached to them, to be thrown out immediately as you suggest.
So, that will make two independent floats plus two throw bags.

One last thing, does the boat side of the throw bag line need to be secured on a cleat or does the thrower have to control it and so grab it in his hand?

Thanks.

[Navatech]

One last thing, does the boat side of the throw bag line need to be secured on a cleat or does the thrower have to control it and so grab it in his hand?

Obviously you need to hold one end in the boat... The throw bags I have seen all had a loop at the "static" end of the line... Presumably to put your hand in... You could tie it off to a cleat but I would think that throwing the line is more important then having the best possible connection to the boat...

Having said that, if your MOB is over 200 Lb I would reconsider that statement... <evil grin>

[Yannis]

Nav, I lost a few kilos during the summer but I'm still in a 3 digit configuration!

[Navatech]

Nav, I lost a few kilos during the summer but I'm still in a 3 digit configuration!

What makes you think I'd throw you a line?!... <evil grin>

[Yannis]

In my boat, because you'll be needing me ...
In your boat, probably because you would wish to avoid police paperwork !

[Navatech]

In my boat, because you'll be needing me ...
In your boat, probably because you would wish to avoid police paperwork !

Let's just say that your optimism is unfounded... <evil grin>

[ranjr13]

Two other thoughts:

First. If you are running at night, consider a floating strobe/LED that hangs upside down within easy reach at all times, and automatically activates itself when inverted, and floats. Throw that at the same time you throw the first flotation device.

Second. As crazy as it seems, practice it a few times - literally throwing a device at speed before you slow down, throwing a line bag to a dummy in the water (not a fellow member on this site but a mooring buoy or something), and see how fast you can do all of these things, ideally a few times a year, with different crews, and in different weather/times of day. You'd be amazed how with a bit of adrenaline flowing how you need that muscle memory to go into auto pilot. It takes about 10 headfirst bail out's onto a ladder of an upper story window for a firefighter in order to get them to do it for real, even if it means life or death.

[Yannis]

Bob,

The strobe light I have seen on all ferries, attached to their MOB devices. Its a good idea even for us to have, because even if you only cruise during the day, if youre unsuccessful locating your MOB, soon will come the night...
I never cruise at night though. Whats the rush? Ive heard stories during night cruising that freak you out.

As far as practice is concerned, you can never be too experienced at sea ! With different crews too.
Thanks for the insight.

[Navatech]

Ive heard stories during night cruising that freak you out.

Everybody has heard those stories about the Sirens... <wink>

[Yannis]

Ha, ha !

No, not those ones, the others with a semi floating tank full of gasoline, that thanks to the moonlight glitter was avoided in the last minute...or the captain in question would now be drinking shots with St. Peter...

[Tony Meola]

Ha, ha !

No, not those ones, the others with a semi floating tank full of gasoline, that thanks to the moonlight glitter was avoided in the last minute...or the captain in question would now be drinking shots with St. Peter...

Yannis

Just run slower at night. If you run at displacement speed if you hit something you will push it out of the way rather than ride up over it and put a hole in the boat and or rip off all the running gear.

[Yannis]

Tony,

Youre right, however it is pointless to navigate at night in our waters.

First of all, the boats our size, even bigger ones, are exceptionally seldom equiped with radars.
Then, the route will undoubtedly be very close to land, or islands, with protruding rocky peninsulas and infested with rocks in the middle of nowhere that you can only see in the day; as for the gps, how many times have you not found it be off by so much that unless you could see the danger with your own eyes you'd end up against something very hard.
And then, your destination is a port with a properly lit dock only a few times, the rest youd go to a remote creek which means youd have to enter narrow passages in the dark, no houses, no street lights nothing to guide you even marginally, let alone the numerous fishing equipment that float everywhere.
Id hate to get entangled in a rope or a buoy or a floating fishing net at midnight!
If boating is to remain a pleasure, me and most of others like me remain tight until next dawn. Sit down, finish your wine and food, go to the bar or to bed, and wait for tomorrow, youre on vacation, right?

[Navatech]

First of all, the boats our size, even bigger ones, are exceptionally seldom equiped with radars.

While that might be true for Europe in the US adding a radar is pretty trivial... And I see them on boats of 20' and up...

Don't get me wrong, I think radar is a MUST for anybody who operates a boat in reduced visibility (fog, darkness, squalls etc) and it's a handy navigational aid... In FL we sometimes get really heavy squalls... You're out on the water and the dark clouds roll in... Before you know it you're in what seems like a wall of water... Your visibility is reduced to nothing... You can barely make out your bow... Without radar you're blind!...

Having said that, radars are not the silver bullet... Even the best radars can't get a return on something that's floating just under or barely on the surface... Then there's the fact that some materials (plastic, wood) are not constructive to a good return...

let alone the numerous fishing equipment that float everywhere. Id hate to get entangled in a rope or a buoy or a floating fishing net at midnight!

In FL it's mostly crab/lobster pots (people don't leave out fishing nets overnight like they do in the Mediterranean) and the location of those is pretty predictable...

Sit down, finish your wine and food, go to the bar or to bed, and wait for tomorrow, youre on vacation, right?

Not always an option... I know you don't fish but others do... In FL we sometimes go out for night fishing... For example for sword fish...

[Yannis]

So, for all these reasons that make the Med waters different from the Atlantic (no radars, no squalls, many floating buoys attached to overnight fishing nets, many floating objects that fall from the container carriers like huge logs, tubes, you name it,no night fishing really except for professional fishermen who fish with nets, not with rods..) we dont cruise at night unless its an emergency - I cant think of any right now, but Im keeping it open as a possibility.
Therefore its not a matter of going fast or slow; there is no real reason to cruise at night, theres simply nowhere to go at night.
Oh, unless youre f'd up drunk or stoned and wish to leave from Myconos to another destination at 4 am. Why really? Because, as I said, youre f'd up drunk !
Please dont tell me that driving a boat being stoned is illegal in the US ! Its illegal here too.

[Navatech]

Of course, if we were doing what's customary in Europe, including the south (i.e. the Mediterranean) we would be mostly discussing masts, sails and other blow boat issues... <wry grin>

You go to just about every US marina and you'll see (maybe) 1 blow boat for every 10 motorboats... You go in Europe and the scene is the exact opposite!... 10 blow boats for every motor boat... Personally I believe the difference is due to several factors among which: culture, fuel price, boat prices...

[Yannis]

Please delete this entry, thanks.

[Yannis]

the difference is due to several factors among which: culture, fuel price, boat prices...

There are two main categories of boaters in the Mediterranean. Those who own their boat and those who rent it, like you'd rent a car.

The latter are mainly the tourists who visit the mediterranean countries mostly (but not only) in the summer, and INSTEAD of a b&b, or a hotel room or anything on the land, they prefer to pass a week, or a muliple thereof, (usually Saturday to Saturday) on a boat. This is 99% of the time a sailboat. Why?
At first they are not in a hurry, they chill out, rather, they bake on the deck and apparently they love it. They drink, swim, play, visit different places... just look up what you can do with a sailboat and you' ll see why this type of vacation is top of the list.

Then its the weather. The summer winds in the med can be worse than what we call Bertram weather ! No sensible motorboat captain can even imagine leaving port in a force 8 or 9, sailboats though can do it in relative ease, after all theyHAVE to follow a certain pattern or course, as by next saturday they have to bring the boat back to port.

Then its the capacity of a saiboat to fit 6 or 8 or 10, sometimes even more people, in 36 to 50 feet. To do this in a motor boat youd need at least twice the length.

Then its the cost. For 100 to 200 euro/day/pax, they have all they need. The cost to rent a motorboat is at least 5 fold.
So there you have it... that's why there are 11000 sailboat rentals in Greece alone. That's why everywhere you go there are sailboats!

For the ones who OWN a boat now, there are perhaps 20-30% who own a sailboat; those people love sailing, or, they are pensioners who are not in any hurry and can fit a whole life in 30 - 40 feet, sometimes a bit bigger, but seldom by much. They spend months onboard visiting places and enjoying themselves.
The remaining 70-80% are the motor boats. You have the super duper yachts that are owned by a few, then you have the 30 to 50 or so feet, owned by wealthier individuals who can afford the buying and runing costs of these boats, and lastly you have the myriads of smaller boats, MAINLY inflatables, not because they are perhaps cheaper to buy, but because they are MUCH cheaper to run compared to a fiberglass motorboat of similar length, plus they are faster so they can anticipate the weather and if need be, even cruise in worse conditions than a grp can. Nobody from either category uses their boat for fishing, they are bigger or smaller cocktail platforms and none is equiped with anything tuned for fishing EXCEPT for the very few who love fishing, mainly snorkel and speargun, who dress up in those suits only to catch a few fish weighing up to a few kilos IF they' re lucky.

Fishing is done mainly with nets, in caique type wooden or glass boats by professional fishermen. If someone wants to go fishing in their own boat they are allowed to do it of course, but the beauty of boating in the med is a multitude of so many many many other things so that fishing comes 42 nd on the list...