Hydraulic steering issues

[Tony Meola]

I did not use the boat for two weeks and when I used it today, my hydraulic steering was actually frozen for a few seconds . I had to yank on the wheel hard to finally free it up. After a couple of turns it was fine.

Had anyone had this happen? I was wondering if this is due to condensation in the line or would the ram be going bad?

Tony

[Navatech]

I did not use the boat for two weeks and when I used it today, my hydraulic steering was actually frozen for a few seconds . I had to yank on the wheel hard to finally free it up. After a couple of turns it was fine.

Had anyone had this happen? I was wondering if this is due to condensation in the line or would the ram be going bad?

What was the weather over there last night?!... Is it possible that you had some frosting?!... I'm thinking it was just a bit of ice on your helm...

The hydraulic steering system doesn't really "breath" so there shouldn't be much if any condensation... In any case, condensation is liquid and wouldn't cause a stiff ram or helm...

[Yannis]

Tony,

I had the same thing, only more stubborn, at the beginning of the summer.
Impossible to move either direction.
Came the mechanic and took the hydraulic pump out to fix. He disassembled it and found that there was salt crust inside that was blocking the arm to move.
I dont know what he did and my helm was like butter for most of the summer...great feeling, only at the end of the season during my last trip back the helm just wouldnt function...it needed 3-4 full turns to just veer slightly to either direction.
I ended up manoeuvering in the port just with the engines.
I havent opened it yet to see what went wrong.

[Charlie J]

tony
could something hold it up in the back at the ram
by the rudders

[mike ohlstein]

only at the end of the season during my last trip back the helm just wouldn't function...it needed 3-4 full turns to just veer slightly to either direction.

You have a leak. The fluid level is low and there's air in the system.

[Yannis]

Thanks Mike,
to be honest I thought so too, only I have never seen any red liquid in my bilge at all.
But probably it is as you're saying, some sort of leakage somewhere...

[Tony Meola]

Today the steering was fine. The temperatures at night have not dropped under 40 so ice is not the issue.

I am thinking it is in the ram or the fluid. Getting ready to pull the boat for the winter. In the spring the first move will be TG o see what it is like after sitting all winter.

Then change the fluid and if that does not do it then pull the ram and find someone to come give it an overhaul.

[Navatech]

The hydraulic fluid will function whether mixed with water or not... Water is also an hydraulic fluid!...

Some hydraulic steering systems need to be precharged with some air pressure... If your canister leaks from the top you won't see hydraulic fluid in the bilge... But, without the precharge the system won't work...

However, going by you saying that your helm was "frozen" and worked fine after you got it loose I'm thinking that possibly you have some water in your fluid which is causing rust in the helm (which is basically a rotary pump)... Alternately, the same water could cause rust in the ram... Rebuilding a ram is very much possible for the DIY'er... Rebuilding a helm is a lot more complicated...

Although hydraulic fluid isn't hydrophilic (unlike brake fluid for example) changing your hydraulic fluid once every few years can't do any harm...

[Yannis]

Nav, to whom are you answering?

[Navatech]

Nav, to whom are you answering?

The OP...

[Yannis]

Καλα, ευχαριστω!
(meaning Thank you, in another language)

[Tony Meola]

Nav

The fluid is about 6 years old. It is possible that something is or was blocking the line. Hopefully by changing the fluid, any contamination will get flushed out.

[Carl]

Thanks Mike,
to be honest I thought so too, only I have never seen any red liquid in my bilge at all.
But probably it is as you're saying, some sort of leakage somewhere...

Yannis-
Or you have fluid leaking past the seal in the ram. A worn O-ring or the rams cylinder bore can wear out allowing fluid to flow around the seal.

But as Mike said...small leak and air is most likely your culprit, easiest fix too.
Bleed the system...

[Navatech]

It is possible that something is or was blocking the line. Hopefully by changing the fluid, any contamination will get flushed out.

Frankly, if you have enough crud in your fluid to create a blockage you have to ask yourself "where did the crud come from"... And, since it's essentially a closed system, the answer is "from within the system"... Which means your hoses are falling apart on the inside... I'd use some compressed air to blow the lines... Just to make sure that the crud (if it exists) isn't staying in the hose...

Pass all the old fluid through some filtering agent!... That way you'll be able to examine it...

[Navatech]

Or you have fluid leaking past the seal in the ram. A worn O-ring or the rams cylinder bore can wear out allowing fluid to flow around the seal.

But that would cause the helm to turn to no effect (i.e. you turn the helm but the ram stays put)... The way I understood the OP is that his helm was "frozen"... Am I missing something?!...

[Carl]

Navatech- I was taking about Yannis's wheel having to be turned several rotations to make course corrections.

I went back and edited while you were answering.


Crud?? I was wondering that too..where does crud/salt build up? How does it hold back??

[Tony Meola]

Guys I have no idea why it would freeze up, but I got the shock of my life when I went to turn the wheel moving away from the slip and she would not budge. luckily I had a lot of room and was able to recover once I got her to budge. Then a couple of turns and she was like her old self. Smooth and easy. Something is hanging up. Not sure if there is a valve in the ram that is not working right or what, but in the spring I will start with a fluid change and go from there. Problem is right now she is working great.

[Navatech]

Something is hanging up. Not sure if there is a valve in the ram that is not working right or what, but in the spring I will start with a fluid change and go from there.

There are no valves in the ram... It's a simple dual acting hydraulic piston... It gets pressure (from the helm pump) on one side or the other... Having said that, it's possible that you have a stuck piston (or pistons) in the helm... They are rebuildable but it's really not a job for somebody who's doing it for the 1st time... There's several outfits that rebuild them...

The real pain is dismantling it for shipping... My advise, considering the age of our boats, is to send the helm for rebuilding... When you're laid up for the winter sounds like a good time for that... Also, with the hoses disconnected from the helm the old fluid will drain much easier... And, you need to "prime" (remove air) after hooking up the rebuild helm anyway...

While you're at it, and if I were you, I'd dismantle the ram too... Might as well rebuild that too while you're at it... Have some buckets ready (to collect the fluid)...

You might be able to get another season or two out of the helm/ram as is but do you really want to risk being out there without functioning rudders?!...

[Tony Meola]

Nav

System is 8 years old, so might be time for a rebuild. But if I have to rebuild he helm and he ram, it might be just as economical to price out a replacement. Not sure what the new ones go for. Will have to price them out.

[Navatech]

System is 8 years old

That's not that old... How much actual use did it see during those 8 years?!...

it might be just as economical to price out a replacement

I very much doubt that...

Will have to price them out

Price out rebuilding as well...

[Carl]

8 years.....that system is barely broken in.

Is it a Sea Star or Hynautic with reservalve?





Maybe before cranking motors up get in the habit of giving the wheel a turn or two in each direction till you find and correct problem.

[Dug]

I was going to ask, Hynautic, sea star or other? They function somewhat differently.

I had a sea star for 15 plus years. It worked very well. Only issues I ever had was an occasional leak which left air in the system. That gave a gap where the wheel spun free with no response, instead of locking up.

At the end, I needed to rebuild the pump head, but I replaced it for other reasons that were aesthetic due to the re-do of my helm overall. So you may benefit from a rebuild, and it will definitely work better, but I am not sure that air in a sea star system would cause a hang up.

In the Hynautic, I don't know what happens when you loose air pressure. I know it does not work but I don't know what the symptom is. Free turn or lock up... not sure.

But it cannot hurt to replace the seals in the head for sure!

Good luck,

Dug

[Navatech]

In the Hynautic, I don't know what happens when you loose air pressure. I know it does not work but I don't know what the symptom is. Free turn or lock up... not sure.

Free turns...

[Dug]

Had a feeling...

[Carl]

If Hynautic, could be check valve got stuck. Check valves at both ends of helm.
That can happen after a hard over, then going back. I think the opposite side gets pressurized or maybe slight vacuum on opposite side...whatever the case it does not allowing valve to open without a good nudge.

Thinking about that...was you wheel hardover? Maybe kids went on and played captain with the wheel for a bit.
Not sure if that happens with other brands. But would be a nice fix.

[Tony Meola]

Dug and Carl

It is a Sea Star.

Actually it was hard over. I don't usually leave it that way, but I dock broadside to the dock, behind a house. Last time out we had guests on board, and I usually swing it hard over as I kick the stern in. I usually straighten them out, but I actually jumped down off the bridge that day to secure a line since I had everyone trying to help tie her up and you know what that can be like.

My wife and I have a system but when others are on board that do not usually come out with us, the system seems to come apart. Family and regular guests forgive me if I yell orders at them, new guests don't get yelled at.

[Carl]

Tony-
Maybe that was the problem...
Personally I don't like maybe answers on boats when it comes to important things like steering...I'd give Sea Star a call and run your problem past them, they have a pretty good tech department.
Or bring wheel hard over and see if it you can get it to happen again...if not a hard over and let it sit awhile and see.

Yes, new guests on a boat can be of great help at times. I love when in the midst of a perfect docking someone decided they should push off on a pole or puts spring line on rear cleat as your going back...or jumps off boat (even though told not to jump or get off way in advance) or...
Doreen just gives me that look...I put that forced smile on my face...and remember to breath.

Almost beats the time we were trolling spoons for bass, had a real nice hit on the pole. I pull outta gear, Father in law grabs pole and I guess he thought we were offshore fishing for giant billfish or something but gives three huge strikes to set hook.???? I could see monel wire kink and part... lost fish, my wire and my favorite spoon...my jaw dropped as he turns and said Lost 'em. Doreen gave me that look as I forced a big smile...yup, sure does look that way....and again, no need to set the hook...just keep tension and reel.

[Tony Meola]

Carl

Guests can be fun or can make you cry. Many years ago, we used to run offshore with an old friend who used to have a 31. One trip, the guy has his dentist on board as a guest on an over night to the Hudson. The Doc drinks all of my friends booze and then looses one of my friends set ups, a 50 international, rod and rig with a big yellow fin on attached to it.

I still remember being along side him about 30 yards away on our boat, watching our friends rig go sailing out of the boat.

Needless to say, the Doc was never invited back.

I will check with Sea Star to see what their thoughts are. I have to dig out the model number of the ram.