31 Soft Top Express - Fuel Tank Size

[ranjr13]

Pete Fallon, you probably know this off the top of your head. Are all models, including the Soft Top Express, built in 1964, and appear to have original fiberglass fuel tank, equipped with the 175 gallon tank? Reason I ask is we're on our 2nd complete fill. At 1/4 on the tank's built in gauge, it takes just shy of 100 gallons, so if that is true, and the gauge is accurate, the capacity would be around 133. I don't want to run lower to find out, but also now having some good history on gallons per hour with these 230 Yanmars, I can track fuel perhaps more accurately that way. I subscribe to the 1/3 capacity out, 1/3 capacity back, and 1/3 capacity reserve - so even though I ran it down to 1/4 on the gauge, if it's truly a 175, I'm in line with my reserve requirement.

I'm amazed at the fuel economy of the Yanmars. I know I push the boat like a little old lady driving to church at 2,300rpms (18kt cruise), but it feels like it's barely working, running effortlessly in most all but the crappiest of weather. At that rate, it's close to 7gph (3.5 per engine). My first tank I ran about 2,100-2,200 16-17kts, and it was actually not as efficient - probably not completely up on plane, or turbos not in their most efficient range, and we averaged 7.3gph.

You mentioned in another post the ease of single handling the Soft Top Express 31 - I completely agree. She's fast at idle, so it barely needs a second or two bump to make significant movement on either side - but using the wind and a bit of the current from time to time, and the well balanced twins, I've yet to have a problem or make a second pass whether single or with a crew - and that's laying it completely into the slip, along it's deployed fenders, and stepping off onto the dock to place the lines. Very smooth.

One other fuel related question. I've used Startron for diesel fuel for years, and several boats, and never had a problem - even if we laid up the boat skipping a season. I use Stanadyne in a VW diesel that doesn't get much use and think highly of that product. Are there any other additives especially good for 1998 Yanmar 4LH-STE 230's that I should consider?

As always, thanks in advance.

[Yannis]

To my knowledge, and after last year's experience with biodiesel residue, this is the best diesel additive for preventing such problems. Somebody told me it's a Shell product under a sudsidiary brand name; nevertheless whoever I met and is using it, is recommending it. It comes in 1lt bottles that is good for 4000lt of diesel and costs around 60€. A bit pricey, but rebuilding a cooked engine ...may be even more expensive.
Follow directions and wear gloves as it is extra toxic.







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[Yannis]

I have very similar Yanmars, the 4LHA-STP's, rated at 240-250hp/3100 rpm's continuous/3300rpm's WOT.
I was told that Yanmars like being pushed, 2 mechanics suggested I do 3000 or else, if I do less, to push them at 3000 for the last 5-10 minutes.
I usually cruise at 2800-2900 doing 23-24kn and my fuel burn is 2.5-2.7lt per nm. So, if you do the maths it turns out to be 55-60lt per hour, or, 15-17gph; this 7gph that you mention I know nothing about, as I never went that slow for a whole tank.
Consider that when, in previous years, I was cruising at 2600-2700rpm's, not only my speed was less (20-22kn), but my consumption was higher !
PS: Are you sure youre talking knots and not land miles?

[Charlie J]

bob
I have only used stanadyne in my 230s
yes they sip fuel

[ranjr13]

Great info, Charlie - will switch and stay with stanadyne - I buy that by the case anyway. What do you cruise your 230's at (rpm/kts)?

Yannis - yes, nautical miles per hour. 18kts/hr is plenty fast cruise for me - have lots of no-wake zones in CT River just going one town up from the mouth, so it's up and down. When in the Sound, or even Block Island Sound, RI Sound, Vineyard Sound or Buzzards Bay, the chop generally starts pounding the boat anything over that. I do run it up to 3,000 every once in a while, but rarely. I'm also concerned about 18 year old transmissions, running gear etc.

Happy Labor Day, everyone. Storm Hermine thought she'd keep us at the dock, well we've been out yesterday and today, albeit a bit breezy getting back into slip today, but no problems.

[Tony Meola]

Bob

Not sure of the exact year, but Bertram used the ,175 gallon tank until early 70's. It was not based on the model 31 they all had the same size tank.

Unless to your tank was changed by a prior owner, you should hold 175 gallons with about 10% as unusable.

I suspect your fuel gauge is off. Probably the sending unit is not set right.

You can do an estimate by mea SD during the tank and calculating it's size. Figure 3/8ths for tank wall thickness and adjust for that.

A new sending unit, a good one is about $70 give or take a few dollars.

Capt oat liked USPTO. I like centroid, but to each there own.

[Charlie J]

bob
I have the original fiberglass tank 175 gal
that's never seen ethanol
I normally cruise at 2600
at 21 kts
wot ill do 30kts, I don't push them hard
every now and then ill open them up
great engines, just keep up with the normal maintanence

[Carl]

The most I was ever able to put in my tank before one engine went out was 166 gallons. Not something you want to do with diesels...but I wanted an accurate number, so carried a Jerry jug of gas in case I needed...the played around in the harbor all week till it died...went over to fuel dock on single motor to fill.
1962 Express...so 175 sounds right for me too.

But then I have gas and needed to change tank so went bigger to 220. Almost a requirement for gas and fishing offshore...can only go 2-1/2 hrs out to keep the 1/3 rule with 160 usable.

On dads boat, we used to just stick the tank. Rude and crude method, but quite accurate and reliable...each inch from bottom had corresponding gallons left in tank. Last few inches went quick as tank conformed to hull bottom. I mention as it is a good way to calibrate your gas gage, sending unit...

[Jack]

You also want to consider that the tanks are molded to the shape of the hull. The manual on my old 28' actually had a translation from gauge reading to approximate fuel remaining. 1/2 full means that the level is 1/2 way from bottom to top, not that you have used 1/2 of the volume.

[Priceless]

Related to gas tanks. When did they enlarge the fuel tanks. I have a 1971 Bahia Mar and we believe it has the 175 gallon tank but some of my research says they may have changed right around then. Any info would be helpful thanks.

[Pete Fallon]

Bob(Ranjr13,)
The original fiberglass tanks in the 1961 to 1969 Bertram's were all the same 172 gallons, no matter what the model of the boat, after 1969 they increased the size to 223 gallons. If you have a manual fuel gauge on the top of the tank it is a magnetic readout/ manual unit that rides on a bronze setup with a cork that rides up and down (looks similar to a DNA helix). I found that the Larvorisi (spelling) 24" length electric sender works the best, it has 2 or 3 wires from the top of the gauge to the display at your helm depending on which model you get, also has adjustments to fine tune the level to your gauge. The tank is 24" deep at the area where the gauge is placed. I found that if you cut the sending pick up tube (single aluminum tube with plastic standoffs inside)to 23" you will have about a 3 gallon reserve in the bottom of the tank. The lever style with a cork or brass float doesn't work as well and some of them hit the baffles or the aft wall inside the tank. I also replaced both of my fuel pick ups with stainless steel because the small screens on the very bottom were rotted away, my boat was gas powered. With the new 454 7.4 L Mecruiser throttle bodied fuel injected engines in 1997 I could not get that boat to burn more than 25 gallons per side at WOT which was 41.8 MPH on the North Star 962 GPS. With the old 440 Chryslers I used to burn 60 gallons a day on a run of 20 miles out and 20 miles back from my mooring in Salem harbor to Stellwagon Bank with a few gallons for looking for justb the right spot to anchor up and start chumming for Blue Fin Tuna.
The best additive is Standyine for diesel.
I did a survey on a 1964 Express in Florida that the owner repowered himself with 230/240 Yanmar's. The boat was really a mess with water soaked cockpit sole, an old tower, bad wiring, etc and still did 28 knots WOT and it wasn't propped correctly. I have the performance numbers somewhere but if I remember correctly it cruised at 22 knots and burned in the low teens and at WOT it only burned 22 gallons each engine. You will find that your fuel burn numbers are going to be fairly close to 1 mile per gallon, check with Mike Olstein or Dug Stow they both have 230/240 Yanmar's in their 31' FBC to see what they get for fuel burn.
Pete Fallon

[Tony Meola]

Pete

I found out that centroid actually makes the sender's for lavorsi. When I replaced mine lavorsi sent me to centroid since they were not. Stock. Centroid will pre cut and fine tune the for you if you give them the size you want.

I also found out they were supplying units to Bertram before bertramstopped building.

[Pete Fallon]

Tony.
I just couldn't remember the supplier that Lavorisi was using, that info was in my phone that took a dump last year with a lot of valuable Bertram 31 info and numbers in it. Thanks for getting the name for one of the newest faithful.
Pete Fallon

[Navatech]

that info was in my phone that took a dump last year with a lot of valuable Bertram 31 info and numbers in it

Pete, sorry that this will be locking up the barn after the horses have bolted in your case...

Everybody else, if you have an iPhone, it's best to do the initial set up of your phone on your computer via the iTunes application... I know, I have heard that it's not the friendliest application on the Windows platform (it works fine on the Mac platform)... That way, assuming you have the automatic backup option enabled, whenever you connect the iPhone to the computer (say for charging) the iPhone will do an automatic backup of your whole phone.... You don't even have to actually connect the iPhone to the computer... Whenever the computer and iPhone are on the same WiFi network and the phone is being charged a backup will be made... Another option is via your iCloud account... Your iTunes account (necessary for downloading apps) is also an iCloud account... Again, there's nothing much that you have to do in order to have automatic backup... Just set the preference and the iPhone will back up itself every time it has a WiFi connection and it's connected to power (charging)...

As I'm pretty much paranoid regarding data loss I do both: backup to my computer and backup to my iCloud account...

I'm pretty sure Android phones have similar options...

[ranjr13]

Appreciate all the feedback. As long as I know it's a 175 tank, and at 1/4 on the tank mounted gauge it's actually got about 75 gallons left, that will be fine for me. That plus tracking hours of use will keep a safe margin of reserve. I'll switch to stanadyne with the next fill-up. I've got more pressing projects still like cabin window replacement, interior floors, painting faded interior laminate etc. All winter projects. Still using it as much as possible this season, but looking forward to getting it home and having at it.

Thanks again to all who have replied.

Bob

[Dug]

I have the 240's and about 610 hours on them. I run at 23.5 cruise at 3100-3200 rpm, and burn 11 gph a that speed. When I used to fish more often, it was clockwork that we would run to the tails from GLP, stay overnight, and run back having burned no more than 138-145 gallons round trip, every time. Pretty reasonable to run.

There are days where I would have liked to have put in the 315's to achieve the 27 plus mph cruise, but not most days and never ever in Narragansett bay! LOL!

Dug

[Anthony]

Dug How many miles is that for you
Anthony

[Pete Fallon]

Navatech,
I got rid of the I phone after it dumped my entire contact info twice, the first time it happened was during one of Apple's suggested down loads to improve the performance the second time it dumped everything on its own. I had the I phone 4s , now have an Android Samsung that never had any problems for the last 2 years. As far as I am concerned and Pat and I had many a conversation regarding Apple products and we both agreed that they were POS. My wife bought a new 27" all in one Apple computer which had to be exchanged twice before she got one that worked properly.
As for the refurbishing of your antennas and extension masts, once the UV effects of the sun get into the FRP laminate there isn't much that can be done except get new ones, repainting only lasts for a year or so in my experience with trying to extend there life.
Pete Fallon

[Dug]

Anthony,

As I recall it is 110 or so miles each way to the canyon depending on which one we actually head for. Plus trolling all day...

D

[mike ohlstein]

Yanmar 4LHA-STE 230 HP

Cruise 23.5 knots @ 3100 RPM 1.7 nmpg

At 1100 RPM I'm at about 7 knots and getting about 5 nmpg.