One day I'll have one of those
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One day I'll have one of those
This started out on the Goodbye Faithful thread but I felt bad about cluttering that thread so I started a new one...
Mike Ohlstein posted this picture on that thread:
To which I replied:
That last picture reminds me of the view that made me say "one day I'll have one of those"...
It was the very early 70's... I had just become a teenager... The location was Haifa bay and the backdrop was Mt. Carmel... There were 3 or 4 of them... Back then I didn't even know what they were... All painted grey... No FB's... No bow rails... A couple of machine gunners (standing on the engine boxes)... Another machine gunner peeking out of the bow hatch... I was in love!...
In the mean time I also managed to locate some pictures on-line:
They were called "mosquitos" (tiny but real annoying and cable of stinging)...
Technical specs:
Length: 7.62 meter
Width: 2.90 meter
Displacement: 7.5 ton
Top speed: 32 knots
Engines: 2 x 220 HP diesels (DD?) driving water jets (they were made for shallow waters)
Armament: 2-3 machine guns
Complement: 4
Mike Ohlstein posted this picture on that thread:
To which I replied:
That last picture reminds me of the view that made me say "one day I'll have one of those"...
It was the very early 70's... I had just become a teenager... The location was Haifa bay and the backdrop was Mt. Carmel... There were 3 or 4 of them... Back then I didn't even know what they were... All painted grey... No FB's... No bow rails... A couple of machine gunners (standing on the engine boxes)... Another machine gunner peeking out of the bow hatch... I was in love!...
In the mean time I also managed to locate some pictures on-line:
They were called "mosquitos" (tiny but real annoying and cable of stinging)...
Technical specs:
Length: 7.62 meter
Width: 2.90 meter
Displacement: 7.5 ton
Top speed: 32 knots
Engines: 2 x 220 HP diesels (DD?) driving water jets (they were made for shallow waters)
Armament: 2-3 machine guns
Complement: 4
Last edited by Navatech on Aug 12th, '16, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
Re: One day I'll have one of those
I believe this is a picture of the bow gunner's station...
But, this might be a picture of an Israeli SWIFT boat...
But, this might be a picture of an Israeli SWIFT boat...
Re: One day I'll have one of those
Turns out the Egyptians also used Bertrams:
Notice the dual rocket launchers on either side...
Notice the dual rocket launchers on either side...
Last edited by Navatech on Aug 13th, '16, 04:17, edited 1 time in total.
Re: One day I'll have one of those
I'm pretty sure this is the Bertram 28' Baron as used by the Israel SEAL teams:
For comparison I'm adding a picture of the 28' Baron from a Bertram PR sheet (thanks Tommy!):
For comparison I'm adding a picture of the 28' Baron from a Bertram PR sheet (thanks Tommy!):
Last edited by Navatech on Aug 15th, '16, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: One day I'll have one of those
Nav
Very nice. I knew they built them for military use. Amazing who used them.
Very nice. I knew they built them for military use. Amazing who used them.
1975 FBC BERG1467-315
Re: One day I'll have one of those
This one:Tony Meola wrote:Very nice. I knew they built them for military use. Amazing who used them.
Is located on the grounds of the Israeli Naval and Ascension museum... That's in Haifa... If you ever make it this way I'll be happy to guide you around...
Just to the front of green boat you can see the white rear part of an early standup Jestski... That Jetski was used in an infiltration attempt from Lebanon (10-9-1993)...
The thing is that if you open up some charts you'll see that there several areas where it made sense to use this type of vessel... For example, Lake Bardawil on the north side of the Sinai peninsula... With a depth of 3 meter (9') your choice of suitable vessels becomes limited... Then there were the Bitter Lakes... Israel was holding the Sinai peninsula but was unable to sail vessels into the lakes... So they trucked some boats down and established a naval presence that way...
Last edited by Navatech on Aug 13th, '16, 07:31, edited 2 times in total.
Re: One day I'll have one of those
The history if Israel's navy is quite interesting... In the early days (pre state) the main focus was getting Jewish refugees from Europe to "Palestine"... Vessels were at a premium (due to the war), money was tight and there was the British blockade... This period is known as Aliyah Bet, (bet being the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet) was the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions, in the years 1934-1948... In modern-day Israel it has also been called by the Hebrew term Ha'apala (Ascension)... Essentially the only choice open to them was to purchase whatever floated and could be had cheaply, convert it to carry as much people as possible and try to run the blockade... The SS Exodus is probably the most famous episode in this chapter...
Immediately after the declaration of independence the only vessels Israel had were a few of these Ascension ships that had been captured by the British and left in the Port of Haifa... So the Israelis put some decrepit WWI field artillery pieces on them as well as some machine guns and declared themselves a naval nation...
Pre 1967 Israel did what most newly established countries of the time did, they purchased used war ships from the bigger nations like the US and UK... Israel even put into service an Egyptian (previously UK) destroyer that they managed to capture - the Ibrahim el-Awal.... The problem with this approach was dual: first, these were obsolete (and sometimes decrepit) "hand-me-downs" which were well past their effective lives... Second, they were unsuitable for the task as they were designed as "blue water" naval duty whereas Israel required littoral vessels... The problem here is that these are big vessels with big complements that are expensive to operate and maintain... The Israeli navy was practically never able to have more then 2-3 of them fit for duty at any one time...
P.S. My late father served on one of these...
Immediately after the declaration of independence the only vessels Israel had were a few of these Ascension ships that had been captured by the British and left in the Port of Haifa... So the Israelis put some decrepit WWI field artillery pieces on them as well as some machine guns and declared themselves a naval nation...
Pre 1967 Israel did what most newly established countries of the time did, they purchased used war ships from the bigger nations like the US and UK... Israel even put into service an Egyptian (previously UK) destroyer that they managed to capture - the Ibrahim el-Awal.... The problem with this approach was dual: first, these were obsolete (and sometimes decrepit) "hand-me-downs" which were well past their effective lives... Second, they were unsuitable for the task as they were designed as "blue water" naval duty whereas Israel required littoral vessels... The problem here is that these are big vessels with big complements that are expensive to operate and maintain... The Israeli navy was practically never able to have more then 2-3 of them fit for duty at any one time...
P.S. My late father served on one of these...
Last edited by Navatech on Aug 13th, '16, 07:41, edited 3 times in total.
Re: One day I'll have one of those
In addition, the Israeli navy had been studying the lessons of the naval operations of WWII and decided that small and fast vessels that carry a disproportionally large punch are the way forward... To this end they purchased several PT boats... After using these for a while they realized that there were issues with the vessels they purchased... First, the problem that they were gas powered, second due to their small size they were limited in range and duration as well as the sea states they were able to operate in... Israel was also aware of Soviet missile boat projects like the Komar and Osa which were to be equipped with Styx missiles...
The solution was a new class of naval craft: the FAC (Fast Attack Craft)... Basically a super sized PT boat with a new invention - SSM's (Ship to Ship Missiles... The Israeli navy selected a German design, adapted it to their requirements and started building them in Cherbourg, France... Due to Arab pressure the Germans wouldn't build them for Israel and pre 1967 France was Israel's strategic partner... Furthermore, the French builder already had experience building designs from the German company... Interestingly enough, these boats were build like yachts - upside down...
The main weapon, the Gabriel missile was being developed indigenously... The platform became known under the moniker Sa'ar (which means "tempest" in Hebrew and, incidentally, is the name of my 2nd son - he was very lively during gestation) otherwise known as the Cherbourg Class... There were 3 versions of the platform:
The first one had been launched just prior to the 1967 6 Day War but didn't get to participate... During the following War of Attrition an Israeli destroyer, the INS Eilat, was sunk by Egyptian Komars... Incidentally, this was the first ever sinking by SSM's... This incident proved to the Israeli navy that they were on the right track (something that was still debated at the time)... Shortly thereafter the Sa'ar class became operational... The 2nd batch arrived in Israel only in 1970...
Why did it take that long?!... After the 6 Day War the French imposed a weapons embargo on Israel... Due to domestic economic pressure the French allowed the completion of the building (they had been pre-paid) but didn't allow actual delivery to the Israeli navy... With typical "chutzpah" the Israelis "liberated" the vessels in a seemingly simple but highly effective semi covert operation known as Boats of Cherbourg...
Two followup classes were designed and build indigenously:
Israel has sold new and used Sa'ar vessels (and Gabriel SSM's) to various naval forces around the world... Among these are Mexico, South Africa, Iran (prior to the Islamic Revolution there), Chile and so forth... A few were sunk as artificial reefs...
Additional follow up classes:
In addition to the various Sa'ar classes Israel operates a variety of smaller patrol boats:
With the recent discovery of large gas fields in Israel's EEZ (including some within relatively easy reach of Hamas or Hizballah) and their attendant installations (exploration, production and liquefaction platforms) the Israeli navy has a lot more to deal with... Israel was the first country to extensively develop and use UAV's... It's therefore no surprise that Israel is currently a world leader in developing and using unmanned naval craft...
More reading:
P.S. My eldest son, Ofek, recently discharged, was 3rd generation Israeli navy... My 2nd son, Sa'ar, is in the artillery...
The solution was a new class of naval craft: the FAC (Fast Attack Craft)... Basically a super sized PT boat with a new invention - SSM's (Ship to Ship Missiles... The Israeli navy selected a German design, adapted it to their requirements and started building them in Cherbourg, France... Due to Arab pressure the Germans wouldn't build them for Israel and pre 1967 France was Israel's strategic partner... Furthermore, the French builder already had experience building designs from the German company... Interestingly enough, these boats were build like yachts - upside down...
The main weapon, the Gabriel missile was being developed indigenously... The platform became known under the moniker Sa'ar (which means "tempest" in Hebrew and, incidentally, is the name of my 2nd son - he was very lively during gestation) otherwise known as the Cherbourg Class... There were 3 versions of the platform:
- Sa'ar 1: gun boat version... Equipped with 3 x 40mm L/70 Bofors radar guided guns... In addition they had a "light battery" of 3 x 30 cal machine guns later replaced by 50 cal machine guns and 1 FN MAG light machine gun... This is the way they were equipped in France...
- Sa'ar 2: ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare) version... Equipped with sonar, depth charges, 1 triple mount of ASW torpedoes, 1 x 40mm L/70 Bofors radar guided gun, 2 single mount and 1 triple mount of Gabriel missiles... Same light battery as Sa'ar 1...
- Sa'ar 3: standard version... Equipped with 1 x 76mm OTO Melara 76 mm radar guided gun and 2 triple mounts of Gabriel missiles... Same light battery as Sa'ar 1...
The first one had been launched just prior to the 1967 6 Day War but didn't get to participate... During the following War of Attrition an Israeli destroyer, the INS Eilat, was sunk by Egyptian Komars... Incidentally, this was the first ever sinking by SSM's... This incident proved to the Israeli navy that they were on the right track (something that was still debated at the time)... Shortly thereafter the Sa'ar class became operational... The 2nd batch arrived in Israel only in 1970...
Why did it take that long?!... After the 6 Day War the French imposed a weapons embargo on Israel... Due to domestic economic pressure the French allowed the completion of the building (they had been pre-paid) but didn't allow actual delivery to the Israeli navy... With typical "chutzpah" the Israelis "liberated" the vessels in a seemingly simple but highly effective semi covert operation known as Boats of Cherbourg...
Two followup classes were designed and build indigenously:
- Sa'ar 4 (a.k.a. Nadran Class)
- Sa'ar 4.5 (a.k.a. Noshav Class) which was essentially a stretched Sa'ar 4 design... This class had two subversions:
- Chochit, renamed Aliya Class... Incidentally, I was part of the original first (launching) crew of the INS Aliya... To date, these are the smallest helicopter capable naval craft... Both were sold to the Mexican navy (sans Harpoon missiles)... The "Launching Lady" was Ofira Navon, wife of the President...
- Nirit, renamed to Hetz class...
Israel has sold new and used Sa'ar vessels (and Gabriel SSM's) to various naval forces around the world... Among these are Mexico, South Africa, Iran (prior to the Islamic Revolution there), Chile and so forth... A few were sunk as artificial reefs...
Additional follow up classes:
In addition to the various Sa'ar classes Israel operates a variety of smaller patrol boats:
With the recent discovery of large gas fields in Israel's EEZ (including some within relatively easy reach of Hamas or Hizballah) and their attendant installations (exploration, production and liquefaction platforms) the Israeli navy has a lot more to deal with... Israel was the first country to extensively develop and use UAV's... It's therefore no surprise that Israel is currently a world leader in developing and using unmanned naval craft...
More reading:
P.S. My eldest son, Ofek, recently discharged, was 3rd generation Israeli navy... My 2nd son, Sa'ar, is in the artillery...
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