Small engine room fire

[Navatech]

As mentioned on the damage control thread, I've had a small engine room fire... Fortunately, the FireBoy system worked (one of the first things I had recommissioned) and the damage was very limited...

Underside of the engine room hatches:





The hot spot:





Melted K&N air filter:



The reason for the fire:



The cleanup and repair consisted mostly of cleaning the engine room from the soot and repairing the hatches... I was quite surprised to learn that the hatches are hollow... I decided to fill the hollow space with sound & thermal insulation... I used perforated Masonite (a.k.a. "Pegboard") as the covering layer... I wanted to use perforated aluminum sheet but it's not available in PR... The Pegboard will do until I can lay my hands on perforated aluminum...

"Peeled" hatch:



"Stuffed" hatch:



Finished hatch:



Next thing to do will be to replace the cracked oil return line, replace all 4 air filters, replace a couple of hoses and to degrease the exhaust heat blanket... It's currently still soaked in oil and will fire up again when exposed to heat... A little paint here and there will complete the job...

It should be noted that although in my case, and very much due to a functioning FireBoy system, the damage was very limited, I know somebody personally who's had a similar occurrence and the boat was a total loss!!! It was a 40' Post with 6V71's and it was the oil supply hose that went south but otherwise it was an identical incident... Albeit with a sad ending...

[Yannis]

Gee Nav, CSI Puerto Rico!
Glad you're OK.

[Navatech]

Gee Nav, CSI Puerto Rico!
Glad you're OK.

Thanks for the concern... I'm a firm believer in properly investigating what went wrong... And then to propagate the results... There's more then one lesson in this event for every boater out there...

Investigating a fire isn't really that hard... As you can see from the pictures, it's generally quite easy to determine the hot spot (source) of a fire... From there it's using logic... The metal and rubber/silicone hoses won't light up spontaneously... Neither will the heat blanket... So, quite obviously, there was an external source of fuel... My first step in the verification process (even before the cleanup) was to check the suspect engine's oil... The dipstick was dry and it took 2 gallons to bring it back up to the proper level... This located the fuel for the fire... The fact that I had a lot of oil on the engine room's floor and in the bilge was another initial pointer...

Starting up the engine after the cleanup simply provided incontrovertible proof... The engine didn't run for more then 45 seconds and a serious puddle of oil had collected on the exhaust... See picture above...

Knowing your engine inside and outside is also a plus...

[scot]

First, glad your OK and it didn't take the entire boat. Is that oil pouring out of the turbo?

[Tony Meola]

Nav

Scarry situation.

Do you have automatic engine shut downs on the fireboy?

[Navatech]

First, glad your OK and it didn't take the entire boat. Is that oil pouring out of the turbo?

Thanks for the concern... And I'm also very glad the boat isn't a total loss... And yes, that's oil that (heavily) drips out out of the turbo... Oil return line cracked... Over the elbow leading from the exhaust manifold to the turbo...

[Navatech]

Scarry situation.

It being very close to shore and knowing I was fully equipped to handle fire I was only worried about the boat... Yes, I have insurance BUT... I have spend so much time, effort and treasure that it would have been a petty solace... And that's assuming the insurance company would pay out (as opposed to coming up with some cockamamy reason to fight the payout - e.g. faulty maintenance)...

Do you have automatic engine shut downs on the fireboy?

Nope... There's no such thing... The engine shutdown is a "by product" of the FireBoy discharge... The engines suck air from the engine room... After the discharge this air also contains Freon/Halon... It works the same way in an engine's cylinder which is just another closed environment... No combustion means the engines shut down...

P.S. I've done some reading on modern systems and, at least, FireBoy now require a separate engine shutdown system for applications that include diesel engines... Perhaps the newer fire fighting agent is even less effective then I thought it to be... Perhaps it's a legal CYA thing... I don't know... I do know that in these matters it's best to follow the vendor's requirements...

[Yannis]

Nav,

I'm inviting you, for a fee, (payable in extra-terrestrial activities) to think about- and verbally deliver- a safe fire fight system for my boat.
Preferred months: 6-9.
Cheers.

[Navatech]

Nav,

I'm inviting you, for a fee, (payable in extra-terrestrial activities) to think about- and verbally deliver- a safe fire fight system for my boat.
Preferred months: 6-9.
Cheers.

I don't need to do anything... All you need to know is right here on the thread... What I would recommend is as follows:

1. An automatic (Freon/Halon or similar based) system for your engine compartment... FireBoy is one brand... Something like this (one under each engine cap) OR something like this would also be a solution... Just Google automatic fire extinguisher... You should be able to find a vendor even in Greece... They're also used in aviation and IT installations... Just make sure the heat sensors and nozzles are above the engines... The location of the tank(s) is NOT important!...
2. You should also get 1 Freon/Halon or similar portable unit (2 KG would be a good size) for your cabin... Depending on the requirements in Greece you might want to go with 2 x 1 KG units...
3. In addition, you want a single 1 KG chemical (powder) unit for your bridge...

[Navatech]

Other then being a satisfied customer I have absolutely NO connection of ANY kind to this vendor!!!

[Tony Meola]

Nav

For years fireboy and others have said that with diesels a shut down for the engines was recommended. Reason is that the diesels can just eat up the Halon or other suppressants and spit Them out with out even stopping to burp.

[Yannis]

Nav, thanks for the info.

Two issues to address: First, what Tony says about shutting the engine, and second, the top of my engines is 5 mm from the hatch, leaving absolutely no room for the sensor and/or nozzle. Additionally, ALL top surfaces are removable so there really is ...nowhere to hang anything from. The only rigid areas to hang something from are the port-most and stbd-most (under the gunnels) surfaces. Perhaps they qualify. I should look into alternatives and whether they can be effective.

[Navatech]

Nav

For years fireboy and others have said that with diesels a shut down for the engines was recommended. Reason is that the diesels can just eat up the Halon or other suppressants and spit Them out with out even stopping to burp.

Damn... I now have something else to investigate... I assumed the engines shut down due to the fire fighting agent not allowing combustion in the cylinder... Maybe the system does have an automatic shut down relay hooked into the standard engine shut down solenoid...

I'll check on this next time I'm back on the boat and will report back here...

[Navatech]

Nav, thanks for the info.

Two issues to address: First, what Tony says about shutting the engine, and second, the top of my engines is 5 mm from the hatch, leaving absolutely no room for the sensor and/or nozzle. Additionally, ALL top surfaces are removable so there really is ...nowhere to hang anything from. The only rigid areas to hang something from are the port-most and stbd-most (under the gunnels) surfaces. Perhaps they qualify. I should look into alternatives and whether they can be effective.

Some units are entirely self contained... IOW, there's the tank with an automatic sensor/discharge head and that's it... You could possibly mount one ahead of the engine or perhaps aft of the engine... Under the gunnel would also work... The drawback with two independent units would be that you don't get automatic protection for both engine compartments...

Some units are supplied with piping that allows you to place the tank (including the discharge head) in one place and the automatic sensor in another location... You could install one of those between the engines with piping that allows distribution to both engine compartments... Of course, you'll need a sensor for each but you'll cover both compartments automatically...

Your local vendor will be able to guide you regarding the best possible install in your specific application... In any case, as the space of the engine compartments and everything under your cockpit deck (from your stern to the cabin bulkhead) is a single airspace the size of the tank will have to cover this whole volume...

If a fixed mounted system is not an option for your specific application your alternative is to instal a special port on each engine box... They're cheap (about $20) and look like this:



Combined with 2 (one for each engine box) 1.5 KG or bigger Freon/Halon or similar fire fighting agent you have all the advantages of a fixed system with the exception of the automatic triggering... You'll also have to remember to discharge one extinguisher into each engine box for best possible dispersion...

An engine shutdown system isn't really that expensive (about $200) or hard to install... If you're going with a non fixed system you'll just have to remember to shut down the engines manually...

[Navatech]

Interesting article on the subject... http://www.cruisingworld.com/how/be-ready-fight-fire

[Pete Fallon]

Navatech& Yannis,
Navatech,
I'm glad that the fire was small bur still a pain to clean up, Thanks for posting the mock up pictures for me.

I had the original Fire Boy Halon 1301 bottles and auto head discharge (Similar to a sprinkler system head, fusible link set at 165 degrees) in each engine box on my 31 express. The bottles were large enough to protect the interior of each engine box, I had them mounted on the forward bulkhead about 2' from the inboard side of the boxes. Halon 1301 is no longer used as an agent in Fire Extinguishing systems because it took all the oxygen out of the surrounding air. They found that it was harmful to the first responders who entered the area after a discharge of the system without having a self contained breathing apparatus on. A lot of the old Halon 1301 systems were used in computer rooms because it did not leave a residue like dry chemical systems that were hard to clean up after. The newer FE241 suppression agent is not as harmful to occupants and fire fighters and most of the newer systems have the remote activation handles as part of the package deal when you buy the system. Most of the boats that I have surveyed in the 28 to 38 foot range have a single 13 pound bottle in the engine room with a remote operating handle at the helm area. The larger vessels (over 40' ) have either 2- 13 pound bottles or 36 pound bottle depending on the size of the engine room. No matter what the size of the system it should be inspected yearly by a qualified fire appliance company, each bottle is weighed, discharge heads are inspected for corrosion and build up of grease, dirt or salt deposits by the technician, then tagged and dated with the date of the inspection. I have found that with the installation of the suppression systems I have always felt more at ease knowing that it was there, there is nothing more scary than a fire on a vessel, no matter what the size of the vessel, you've got nowhere to go but overboard or into a life raft.
Yannis,
Did you check out Moeller tanks web site yet?, hopefully your tank will keep going for the next year without any more problems. That black goo that you found in the bottom of your tank is not just from bio-diesel, I've seen it in the bottom of gasoline tanks also. The 13 pound size Fireboy system should be large enough for your 28 engine room. measure the square footage of the engine room and get the correct size that the manufacturer recommends( they have sizing charts available with there brochures.
Stay safe,
Pete Fallon
Pete Fallon

[Navatech]

Halon 1301 is no longer used as an agent in Fire Extinguishing systems because it took all the oxygen out of the surrounding air. They found that it was harmful to the first responders who entered the area after a discharge of the system without having a self contained breathing apparatus on.

Actually, the reason 1301 went out of fashion was the reason many other Freons went out of fashion - they were harmful to the environment (inductive to creating the hole in the ozone layer)... 1301 was not poisonous in quantities even twice those required for effective fire fighting... Also, 1301 (and similar agents) do NOT "take out the oxygen"...

The newer FE241 suppression agent is not as harmful to occupants and fire fighters

Actually, FE241 is BANNED in Europe because it may not be safe for people in the same environment where it's being discharged... FM200 is legal in Europe...

[Tony Meola]

Nav
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/automatic ... n-systems/

Nav

above is the Fireboy site and below is off of their site.


Automatic Marine Engine Shutdown
Required for Diesel Engines Automatic engine shutdown equipment

Compressed gas suppressants and HFC-227ea will not stall a diesel engine.

If fire breaks out aboard a diesel powered vessel, the engine(s) must be shut down immediately for the Fireboy fire extinguisher system to effectively extinguish the fire.

Continued engine operation may remove the agent, lowering the concentration required to effectively extinguish the fire, making an Engine Shutdown System necessary.