Re-Wiring Project B25

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Nov 24th, '15, 15:39

Not even sure where to start! 48 years of adaptations.

Removed the inner bulkhead, part of the ceiling and house battery for access room.

Howesounder · Post by **Howesounder** » Nov 24th, '15, 20:27

Hello Joeseph, I too have just started a rewiring of a 25 (express) and if I was not such a nimrod, I would be sharing some pictures that make your wiring look pretty downtown in comparison. Mine was such a donkey show that I elected to rip it all out. I have installed 2" hose wire ways, one for wire, and the other for hydraulic lines, and engine controls. I am about half done and delighted with the decision to replace all of the old wire, terminal strips, switches and all,.....out for new stuff. I am taking spare wires to most locations, and am using a separate ground wire for every device. These boats have such great bones that I don't think I will ever regret the extra cost or time.

Cheers steve

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 24th, '15, 21:09

Josepf,

When I bought my boat, the previous owner told me : "change everything if you want, but dont do any wire changes because they are new".
At some point there was a pump that wouldn't work properly, so I called my electrician to take a look. As he started pulling the wire in question we realized that that wire was spliced three times so we had to change it... One thing led to another and we finally did a complete rewiring. It was the best decision I ever made on this boat. Except for knowing exactly what goes where, there is this feeling of "safety" that everything will now work as planned. Turned out a NOT very expensive task either.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 24th, '15, 21:28

A few pics from my rewiring in 2013-2014:

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 24th, '15, 22:52

Joel

If you need bulk wire try these two sites:

http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/

https://www.genuinedealz.com/

I have ordered from both. I have found of late that Gregs has been cheaper on some wire than Genuinedealz.

By the way, how did that Big White wax work out for you? I was really happy with the end result when I pulled the boat for the winter. It held up better than anything else I have used so far, and that includes Rejex.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Nov 25th, '15, 10:05

Howesounder - Would love to see pictures. Easy, just post to Facebook and copy the link.

Yannis - Great pictures. Its always good to see what others have done/ This is a fantastic site!

Tony - I will look onto the bulk wire sites. Just trying to figure out lengths and colors. Also probably changing the seating to bench seats on each side of the cabin and moving the batteries under the rear of the seats. The Wax job held up very well. Quite pleased with the results. I did all three procedures; compound, sealer, and high temp wax.

Joe

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Nov 25th, '15, 10:07

New stuff going in to help with the clutter and broken gauges.

my other east · Post by **my other east** » Nov 25th, '15, 10:35

i too, am in the process of rewiring my 31.
ripped out everything a month after i bought the boat.
i have found that bestboatwire.com has consistently had the best prices for all my wire needs.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 25th, '15, 12:48

Joe, since you like pics, pls take a look at these ones too:

When the job was finished it looked like this:

Main switches change:

This little thing manages my solar panels:

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Dec 1st, '15, 14:09

More demo done. On hold, raining for a few days up here in NJ.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Dec 2nd, '15, 09:28

Joe,

Maybe you have already done this, but start with a schematic of the old wiring, then transpose to a new schematic for the new design. Helps to keep track of everything. I completely re-wired my Scout this way...everything passed the smoke test!

I would invest in a good ratcheting crimper (amp) and I like their lugs as well, especially the heat shrink lugs (expensive). I have a good heat gun that makes short work out of process.

I find it is easier to build and wire the helm on the bench off the boat and pull wire to the various locations on the boat.

Good Luck!
Cam

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Dec 8th, '15, 20:21

Read up on current guidelines on dc wiring,gauge size based on length of run, fuse location after the battery, wire tie bundling frequency, correct color usage for positive/negative, fuse sizing based on wire gauge, not necessarily the device that will possibly need its own circuit protection with lighter fuse. The custom boat guys use lots of buss bars to make up the device connection vs butt connectors, easier down the road to test circuitry/problems. I coat all screw type connection with liquid tape. I recently had an issue with my bow thruster losing its power, thought the battery was bad,checked the charger, all good, found the ato fuse holder that was charred and fuse blown. Tracked the fuse holder back to the butt connector connecting to the feed wire coming from the charger, 8 ga. Wire from the charger, 12gauge fuse holeder wire with a 30 amp fuse. Afire waiting to happen. There are several easy to read books for novices like me to guide you.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Apr 13th, '16, 15:57

Finally able to get time to do some work.

Removed the wiring from the bridge.

I think these would be the original wirings, since they are bundled and look like they have not been disturbed. I think I figured out port and starboard engine harness wires.

Those not in the bundles I assume are add-ons over the years. Need to trace them back.

Also working on the new helm pod for the bridge. ready for first coat of Epiphanes.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Apr 13th, '16, 16:44

Some good advice above!

I bought a ratcheting crimp tool and always use it.. even with small instrument wire (I strip double the length of insulation and then bend the conductor back on itself, and crimp that.)

After I crimp a terminal onto the wire I give it a good pull to make sure I have a good mechanical connection.

I refuse to use butt connectors. I do use a lot of terminal strips, near the source of power and usually near the device being powered. This gives both a neater look but also makes it much easier to diagnose problems in the future.

My boat had such a mess of wire after the PO did his rewiring job (with orange zip cord from Home Depot) I found 120 volt and 12 volt circuits with the same non marine wire, loose cut wires dangling in the engine room with some still energized, and taped wire to wire splices. I removed everything I could find that he did and replaced it with oversized marine grade wire. I removed two 5 gallon buckets of coiled scrap wire before I was finished.

When you are finished you will have the satisfaction of knowing your boat inside and out.. a real benefit when something goes wrong and you have to start tracing a circuit.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Apr 13th, '16, 17:36

Irguy
I have the crimping tool and I am using the heat shrink connectors. I have a couple terminal blocks and will buy more if needed. Also a fuse block, ACR, bilge pump switches, new ignition switches, hour meters that work, and a switch panel all from Blue Seas. Tomorrow is cleanup and tracing the wires back to the engines. There are wires tapped into on the engines also. What a mess. Eventually I will have to rewire the engines also. Hate to pony up for wiring harnesses but I guess that's the way to go.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Apr 14th, '16, 14:34

Put in a couple of hours today. Measuring for fit and cutting holes, and first coat of epiphanes on the helm pod.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Apr 14th, '16, 15:30

Joe,
While your at it don't forget to do over the 110 system also. I found that all the old 110 volt lines leading from the 30 amp inlet to the last outlet in the V berth were shot. The outer black jacketing looked fine but after checking the inner wires the insulation on the black, green and white wires just crumbled in my hands, granted they were 50 years old but I replaced them all with 10/3 anchor marine boat cable. The 110 is more likely to cause a fire than the 12 volt system but I've seen some really bad 12 volt rats nests over the years While your there check your shore power cables for corrosion at both ends and any cuts in the yellow or white insulation, look at the 30 inlet wiring and connections especially on the back side of the inlet Don't forget to support the wiring every 18" and add chafe guard where wires pass thru bulkheads.
Pete Fallon.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Apr 14th, '16, 17:58

Thanks Pete, but I don't have any 110 on the boat. Will be adding it though at a later date. Basically only needed for the charger. Although some lighting and a cup of coffee now and then wouldn't disappoint me.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » May 10th, '16, 10:04

Does it make sense to glass down the flybridge? Currently held on by a bunch of bolts. Or just caulk and paint?

If glassing down is the approved method, i assume thickened epoxy to hold down and glass tape around the perimeter and inside?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 11th, '16, 21:22

Joseph Fikentscher wrote:Does it make sense to glass down the flybridge? Currently held on by a bunch of bolts. Or just caulk and paint?

If glassing down is the approved method, i assume thickened epoxy to hold down and glass tape around the perimeter and inside?

Joel

I am not expert here, but I guess it depends on the need to remove it at some later point for over land transportation.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 7th, '16, 13:28

I removed the lower station and have replaced the gauges with Teleflex. Got them at considerable savings so intend to use them. However...

The older Stewart Warner tachs had a cadmium stud and a copper stud, along with the ground, ignition, and light studs. The Teleflex only has the S terminal along with Ground Ignition, and Light. I'm left with an extra wire coming from the engine harness. I haven't started the engines yet as i am not sure what to do with the extra wire. However 6they will crank.

The engines are Chrysler 318's with the electronic ignition 5 pin module. Obviously nor original to the 1968 boat.

Any ideas what to do with the extra wire? Anyone have a valid wiring diagram for this engine? Help!!

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 8th, '16, 12:51

Well, I think I figured this out, on paper anyway. When the rain stops tomorrow, I'll get to the boat and see if it works.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 8th, '16, 13:05

Little by little it's coming together. Stopping with the bridge being painted, I need to get it in the water and use it. More paint over the summer or next year.

Wiring taking the lead for now. Shooting for two weeks to be wet.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 8th, '16, 21:05

Joel

Are you using the brush and tip method to paint her or having her sprayed?

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 9th, '16, 07:58

Tony,

Just a roller. Sanded between coats. Not professional but looks pretty good. Just got a delivery os Azek for the rear panel and the interior side panels. The side panels in the deck area are Starboard from the PO. Also need to make a new seat for the Bridge. Also need to hook up the Morse control (MT3). Looks a bit confusing.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 9th, '16, 23:12

Joel

I know it is hard to tell in the pictures, but she looks pretty good. The bridge is not showing roller marks.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 10th, '16, 08:02

Tony,

It's not as smooth as I would like it but it's ok for this year. Maybe another coat next year. Or when it is in the water. I hope to get time to do the rest of the topsides this summer in the slip.

Bo Toepfer · Post by **Bo Toepfer** » Jun 23rd, '16, 08:32

Yannis wrote:Joe, since you like pics, pls take a look at these ones too:

When the job was finished it looked like this:

Main switches change:

This little thing manages my solar panels:

Hello Yannis what do you have connected to your solar system?

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 28th, '16, 09:12

Got the Flybridge Seats installed. The bases need to be cleaned up, filleted, and will be painted when I paint the next section of the hard top area. After scrubbing the decks still look quite weathered, and will eventually be painted also.

The clamp block broke on the mechanical steering yesterday. Used the engines to steer back to the slip and get her docked. New clamp block for this year. Then hydraulic steering for next year.

The ProMariner 1240i died yesterday also. Seems the battery relay went south. $$$. Hope the bleeding stops soon for this year.

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 28th, '16, 13:14

Very nice Joseph, good looking boat. I love the inboard versions of the B25.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 28th, '16, 20:40

Joel

Looks great. Stop the bleeding. It's a boat, it sucks blood. Like a House or an ex wife.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jun 29th, '16, 00:43

Bo,

What do you mean by "connected" ?
On one hand I have 4 X 100 amp batteries, the three are charged directly, the 4th is also charged when I switch to "both". However I have to remember to switch back to "house" so as to keep one battery dedicated to one motor.
On the other hand I have everything connected to the batteries - fridge, freezer, all pumps, all lights, windlass, all plugs, head, music...
If I can be more specific pls let me know.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jun 29th, '16, 02:27

Yannis wrote:the 4th is also charged when I switch to "both". However I have to remember to switch back to "house" so as to keep one battery dedicated to one motor

You need something called a VSR...

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7601/m ... 24V_DC_65A

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jun 29th, '16, 02:37

Bo Toepfer wrote:Hello Yannis what do you have connected to your solar system?

And:

Yannis wrote:Bo,

What do you mean by "connected" ?
On one hand I have 4 X 100 amp batteries, the three are charged directly, the 4th is also charged when I switch to "both". However I have to remember to switch back to "house" so as to keep one battery dedicated to one motor.
On the other hand I have everything connected to the batteries - fridge, freezer, all pumps, all lights, windlass, all plugs, head, music...
If I can be more specific pls let me know.

Bo, let me try and "translate" what Yannis is saying... He has a more or less standard battery setup: 1 battery for one engine and a bank of 3 batteries for the other engine and the house... OR, he has 1 battery for each engine and a bank of 2 batteries for the house... It's really not important at this point... The batteries are connected conventionally (main switch, panel etc)...

What Yannis has that's different is the solar panels which are connected to a controller/charger which charges his batteries whenever that yellow orb is showing in the sky... Basically, if you think of the solar setup as a "charger" you'll have figured it out... Otherwise his setup is quite conventional...

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jun 29th, '16, 04:42

Thanx Nav.... and while talking about the sun there is plenty of it; in your next trip to Israel why don't you plan a stopover for urchins and ouzo?

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jun 29th, '16, 06:14

Yannis wrote:Thanx Nav.... and while talking about the sun there is plenty of it; in your next trip to Israel why don't you plan a stopover for urchins and ouzo?

I'm actually IN Israel right now... My eldest is on his discharge furlough... He's almost done with his 3 year stint in the Israeli navy... After which he's going to school... He wants to study criminology... Right now it looks like that won't cost me a dime... My younger son yesterday concluded his 8 month training as an artillery man...

Training graduation ceremony:

Family picture (youngest daughter was at school):

I would love to visit Greece (again)... But my financial future is still unclear so I don't think I can afford it at this time... Way back, we (the family) used to vacation often in Turkey... But then the Mavi Marmara incident occurred and we realized that we're not really welcome in Turkey as Jews... So we vacationed in Greece several times... Crete one time and Lesbos the other time... Great fun... Even though the political rift between Israel and Turkey seems to have been resolved, I'm not going back anytime soon... I can get basically the same sort of "all included" vacations in Greece... Albeit slightly (about 15%) more expensive... The difference is well worth it to me...

I'm not a fan of urchins and I absolutely hate the smell/taste of anise so Ouzo is also out... But, there are lots of other things I do like (stuffed grape leaves, souvlaki, Greek music, wine, olives, lamb, seafood etc) so that shouldn't be a problem :-)

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Jun 29th, '16, 07:04

Hey Nav, interesting leaves on your hawaiian shirt !
Sure can do all those in your wishlist !

Bo Toepfer · Post by **Bo Toepfer** » Jun 29th, '16, 10:00

Yannis wrote:Bo,

What do you mean by "connected" ?
On one hand I have 4 X 100 amp batteries, the three are charged directly, the 4th is also charged when I switch to "both". However I have to remember to switch back to "house" so as to keep one battery dedicated to one motor.
On the other hand I have everything connected to the batteries - fridge, freezer, all pumps, all lights, windlass, all plugs, head, music...
If I can be more specific pls let me know.

Thank you, and thank you Nav ,, be safe as you and yours travel !

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 29th, '16, 10:35

Well, The bracket that held the Clamp Block had completely rusted through. Looks like the clamp block itself is ok but I will replace it anyway. Also, looks like a few repairs were done to the rudder shelf already, and I will have to repair basically the same way for this year.

Called ProMariner regarding the charger and they made me a deal on a new one, a ProNautic P 40 amp 3 bank charger. $300 to my door, 5 year warranty. Should have it by Monday or so.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 29th, '16, 20:58

Joseph Fikentscher wrote:Well, The bracket that held the Clamp Block had completely rusted through. Looks like the clamp block itself is ok but I will replace it anyway. Also, looks like a few repairs were done to the rudder shelf already, and I will have to repair basically the same way for this year.

Called ProMariner regarding the charger and they made me a deal on a new one, a ProNautic P 40 amp 3 bank charger. $300 to my door, 5 year warranty. Should have it by Monday or so.

Joel not sure how your steering sits, but I actually have a couple of Stainless steel L brackets sitting around from my repower. If you can use them let me know. They are not needed with my current set up. I only kept them because they are not that big and it was the you never know thought.

My father and I put them in when the boat was about 5 years old since the steel ones Bertram put in rusted out. They were drilled out for the set up on the 31, so I am not sure how much different the spacing would be on a 25.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jun 30th, '16, 08:38

Tony.

call me when you can at 732-233-9366.

Thanks,

Joe

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 30th, '16, 20:56

Joel

Just picked this up this evening. Will give you a call Friday or Saturday.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jul 7th, '16, 10:32

Going with Bean Bag Chairs for this year.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 7th, '16, 17:03

Joel

Don't forget to take a look at what you need for the steering. The two pieces we had made up to hold the two steering blocks on the 31, were 4.5 inches long. Two holes drilled on one side of the angle, to go into the old rudder shelf, then one on the other side to go into the steering block.

I am back in Forked River late afternoon on Friday, depending on when I can get going and traffic. I hope to leave north Jersey by 1 otherwise it is going to be a two to three hour trip. I hate Fridays in the summer.

No problem either way, if you need to discuss just call me.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Jul 13th, '16, 07:59

Tony,

I found a piece of stainless in the garage and made a bracket for the steering. Seems to work fine for now. Not a permanent fix, but will get me through the season.

Next year I will remove the mufflers for access and replace the rudder shelves, tie bar etc and convert to hydraulic steering. I already have the Hynautic helm. Still need the ram cylinder and hydraulic hoses and fittings.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 13th, '16, 22:12

Joel

Sounds good. I am not sure how the 25 is set up for steering, but when we did the 31, made a shelf out of fiberglass we got from Mc Master Carr. The shelf ran across the stern with the hydrolic ram sitting on top.

If you ever want to have a look let me know. Forked River is not that far, or maybe we meet some place in the bay.