Went to remove the 1 inch spacer between the coupler and output shaft. Took the bolts out, slid shaft aft and tried to pullout the spacer. It was getting hung up on the key way. The keyway had slid forward just over half of its length. I suppose in a setup with out the donut shaped spacer, the keyway can't slide because it is butted up to the output shaft. The shaft is still set in place in the coupler via set screws.
1. Do I have a bigger problem than just putting keyway back in and proceeding with alignment?
2. How do I keep the keyway in place. I used grease of some sort when I put it all together so things would not sieze up or rust.
Well I am baffled with this one. I have never seen a key way pack up shop and leave. Usually have to use excessive force of some kind. Any thoughts would be great.
shaft alignment complications/ follow up
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
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In Memory of Vicroy
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Vic,
Sorry, key is what I meant....brainfart. The key is sliding towards the gear. Normally would not be a problem since it can't slide toward the gear because of the output shaft coupler itself. In my case, the "spurs 1" spacer" between the couplers is hollow like a donut, leaving a void area for key to slide forward. Never thought that would happen. Thought about using a hole saw and cutting disc out of starboard to fill the void inside the spacer which would prevent the key from sliding towards the gear.
I had a vibration which lead me to re-alignment. Taking Bruce's advice, I pulled the spacer out to facilitate easier alignment and found key coming forward. I am now wondering if I have a problem with the shaft or simply used to much grease putting it together. Hopefully my explanation makes sense, if not let me know. It makes sense in my head, but that may be part of the problem!
Sorry, key is what I meant....brainfart. The key is sliding towards the gear. Normally would not be a problem since it can't slide toward the gear because of the output shaft coupler itself. In my case, the "spurs 1" spacer" between the couplers is hollow like a donut, leaving a void area for key to slide forward. Never thought that would happen. Thought about using a hole saw and cutting disc out of starboard to fill the void inside the spacer which would prevent the key from sliding towards the gear.
I had a vibration which lead me to re-alignment. Taking Bruce's advice, I pulled the spacer out to facilitate easier alignment and found key coming forward. I am now wondering if I have a problem with the shaft or simply used to much grease putting it together. Hopefully my explanation makes sense, if not let me know. It makes sense in my head, but that may be part of the problem!
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Harry Babb
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Kevin,
The problem of the moving key can be easily solved by drilling and tapping a 5/16 or 3/8 hole in the hub of the coupling intersecting the coupling keyway then put a set screw in the drilled and tapped hole so that it will tighten aganist the key.
Normally the key will not slide back and forth in the keyway. I suspect that you may have a loose fit between the coupling and the shaft and if this is so the excessive clearance is working on the key and allowing it to slide.
You mentioned Loctite.............I would not recommend that you use Loctite on any of the coupling components............You will regret it when you try to disassemble the coupling and shaft joint later.
A proper fit between the coupling and the shaft is imperative for trouble free operation. When the coupling and shaft are sized properly you should be able to "Bump" the coupling onto the shaft with a soft rubber mallet without having to get rough the coupling.
If the coupling slides easily onto the shaft and you can feel "Slop" in the coupling fit I would suggest that you have the problem repaired.
Harry Babb
The problem of the moving key can be easily solved by drilling and tapping a 5/16 or 3/8 hole in the hub of the coupling intersecting the coupling keyway then put a set screw in the drilled and tapped hole so that it will tighten aganist the key.
Normally the key will not slide back and forth in the keyway. I suspect that you may have a loose fit between the coupling and the shaft and if this is so the excessive clearance is working on the key and allowing it to slide.
You mentioned Loctite.............I would not recommend that you use Loctite on any of the coupling components............You will regret it when you try to disassemble the coupling and shaft joint later.
A proper fit between the coupling and the shaft is imperative for trouble free operation. When the coupling and shaft are sized properly you should be able to "Bump" the coupling onto the shaft with a soft rubber mallet without having to get rough the coupling.
If the coupling slides easily onto the shaft and you can feel "Slop" in the coupling fit I would suggest that you have the problem repaired.
Harry Babb
hb
Harry,
I suspected that loctite may be a bad idea in the long run. I will take your advice and not proceed with the loctite.
I bought the key in large piece form from the hardware store, maybe I over filed the sharp edges and made it to loose. I think I will try making another key on my next day off.
Not sure I could even get the coupling off due to limited work space. The set screw is a great solution. I assume that I need to use a drill press to properly do that job. If I went at it in the boat I would surely punch a hole in the dripless bellows.
I have a couple of days to think this over. Your advice is greatly appreciated. There is more knowledge on this board than you can shake a stick at. Glad to be a part of it.
I suspected that loctite may be a bad idea in the long run. I will take your advice and not proceed with the loctite.
I bought the key in large piece form from the hardware store, maybe I over filed the sharp edges and made it to loose. I think I will try making another key on my next day off.
Not sure I could even get the coupling off due to limited work space. The set screw is a great solution. I assume that I need to use a drill press to properly do that job. If I went at it in the boat I would surely punch a hole in the dripless bellows.
I have a couple of days to think this over. Your advice is greatly appreciated. There is more knowledge on this board than you can shake a stick at. Glad to be a part of it.
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In Memory of Vicroy
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scot
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Kevin,
The companion flange on my current boat (which came form TwinDisc) has the allen set screw located at the key position that Harry is talking about aready in it. Alternate fix would be to "peen" the shaft with a sharp punch on the trans end at the bottom of the keyway. That would also keep the key in place.
Ultimately it is better that the shaft does not extend all the way to the trans flange. Over time the end of the shaft may flare every so slightly when it's pushing on the trans flange and make it hell to get the companion flange off of the shaft. A long time inboard mentor of mine told me years ago to leave 1/4" between the end of the shaft and the trans flange. This has proved to work very, very well. I counter drill the shaft about 1/8" deep in the set screw location. I also install a custom 1/4" spacer that fits inside the companion flange between the shaft end and the trans flange. I have had to pull everything apart a couple of times over the years and the companion flange comes right off the shaft....as it should.
Good luck,
The companion flange on my current boat (which came form TwinDisc) has the allen set screw located at the key position that Harry is talking about aready in it. Alternate fix would be to "peen" the shaft with a sharp punch on the trans end at the bottom of the keyway. That would also keep the key in place.
Ultimately it is better that the shaft does not extend all the way to the trans flange. Over time the end of the shaft may flare every so slightly when it's pushing on the trans flange and make it hell to get the companion flange off of the shaft. A long time inboard mentor of mine told me years ago to leave 1/4" between the end of the shaft and the trans flange. This has proved to work very, very well. I counter drill the shaft about 1/8" deep in the set screw location. I also install a custom 1/4" spacer that fits inside the companion flange between the shaft end and the trans flange. I have had to pull everything apart a couple of times over the years and the companion flange comes right off the shaft....as it should.
Good luck,
Scot
1969 Bertram 25 "Roly Poly"
she'll float one of these days.. no really it will :-0
1969 Bertram 25 "Roly Poly"
she'll float one of these days.. no really it will :-0
Vic, I thought about a longer key also. Just might try it.
Scot, The shaft is pretty much flush to thecoupler. The set screws have decent counter sinks/dimples to set into. The shaft does not touch tranny flange. I could see the shaft flaring ever so slightly over time but I have the one inch space inbetween the two. I will say I have learned a great deal about shafting over the past couple days here. When the key issue is solved then all I have to do is align the motor. Wish I had A frame. 2x4 pry bar will have to do. Thanks guys
Scot, The shaft is pretty much flush to thecoupler. The set screws have decent counter sinks/dimples to set into. The shaft does not touch tranny flange. I could see the shaft flaring ever so slightly over time but I have the one inch space inbetween the two. I will say I have learned a great deal about shafting over the past couple days here. When the key issue is solved then all I have to do is align the motor. Wish I had A frame. 2x4 pry bar will have to do. Thanks guys
Kevin,
Key movement is not uncommon.
Shove it all the way back in till you see the key at the back of the coupling.
With the keyway up, use a couple of drops of red lock tite at the key/keyway and let set up.
If you get some around the coupling/shaft don't panic. A little heat when needing to remove destroys locktite.
Key movement is not uncommon.
Shove it all the way back in till you see the key at the back of the coupling.
With the keyway up, use a couple of drops of red lock tite at the key/keyway and let set up.
If you get some around the coupling/shaft don't panic. A little heat when needing to remove destroys locktite.
10-4 on the loctite. Got that part under control now. Went to slide the back of the engine outboard a little to perform the alignment and found the real problem. The vulcanized rubber on the mount started to seperate from the metal portion of the mount. Sounds like a good culprit for a vibration to me. When we did the install Rich told me that they would not last as long as normal since we did not have time to make custom 6 degree angles to go on top of the beds. That put some strain on the mounts.
Now I need some sort of base for the mounts to sit on. Does anyone know if I can just buy these somewhere, I would rather not custom make them. I am assuming the stock shaft angle on the 28 is 14 degrees. The down angle in the tranny is 8 degrees. Assuming the beds are good that would leave roughly 6 degrees of angle needed under the mounts. Hopefully what I have said here makes sense to the faithfull.
Now I need some sort of base for the mounts to sit on. Does anyone know if I can just buy these somewhere, I would rather not custom make them. I am assuming the stock shaft angle on the 28 is 14 degrees. The down angle in the tranny is 8 degrees. Assuming the beds are good that would leave roughly 6 degrees of angle needed under the mounts. Hopefully what I have said here makes sense to the faithfull.
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In Memory of Vicroy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2340
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 09:19
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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In Memory of Vicroy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2340
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 09:19
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Just checked and Hamilton has them, alignment wedges, item #GRW-A3290001 - listed under "drive accessories". www.hamiltonmarine.com
22 bucks a pair.
UV
22 bucks a pair.
UV
Vic, thanks, I found them. I made wedges like that out of starboard and difficult to keep them in place. I am thinking that I need heavy gauge aluminum caps to go over the beds. I can bolt the mounts to them, hang the motor on an A frame with mounts already bolted to the aluminum, and then run large bolts all the way through the beds. Still brain storming. Imperial Qaulity Mounts webpage has something similar to what I was thinking.
http://imperialquality.com/index.html
What do make of it. By the way I need way more than 5/16 on the high side. More like 3/4 to an inch to take the binding out of the mount.
http://imperialquality.com/index.html
What do make of it. By the way I need way more than 5/16 on the high side. More like 3/4 to an inch to take the binding out of the mount.
Kevin: About four years ago, I noticed two isolators that had separated due to the engine beds not being at the same angle as the engines. We cut some starboard wedges at the necessary angle, drilled holes where the lag bolts would pass through and realigned everything. (Replaced the bad isolators). We used 1/2" stainless steel lag bolts about 4" long. It's not as impressive as welded aluminum beds, but very solid. I reused them on my repower and they seem to be working well despite the extra horsepower.
Eddy G.
Eddy G.
Eddy,
The wedges we had made at the starboard shop were perfect in shape. We fought with getting the engine somewhat aligned to the shaft. As soon as any wieght was taken off the A frame and put on the starboard, we lost the eyball alignment and the wedges would move. Not only that, the actual engine would slide to the rear. I thought it would work, and I am sure I could get it to work again but it would be a challenge. I am at a point where I am trying to avoid excessive challenge. If I have to shell out some cash in order to save a lot of my days off from work in the bilge, I am prepared to do so. The days are getting nicer and it is time to go fishing.
The wedges we had made at the starboard shop were perfect in shape. We fought with getting the engine somewhat aligned to the shaft. As soon as any wieght was taken off the A frame and put on the starboard, we lost the eyball alignment and the wedges would move. Not only that, the actual engine would slide to the rear. I thought it would work, and I am sure I could get it to work again but it would be a challenge. I am at a point where I am trying to avoid excessive challenge. If I have to shell out some cash in order to save a lot of my days off from work in the bilge, I am prepared to do so. The days are getting nicer and it is time to go fishing.
Yea Kevin, I hear what you're saying. This is suppose to be fun, not aggrivating. Those Imperial Quality mounts look nice. You might have to cut your existing beds lower to make up for the gained height those appear to have. Sure looks more impressive than my starboard. Good luck, I know you're anxious to get back out on the water.
Eddy G.
Eddy G.
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Bill Fuller
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 08:29
- Location: San Diego
Sounds about right to me. They are slick as snot. Droping engine on it was like putting sled on snow.
Just spoke with Steyr and they are sending new mounts. They said 3/8 thick angle could be used to fabricate the base for the mount. Looking at the pics from the IQM website it looks to be not much more than angle aluminum. I am only dealing with about 733 lbs of motor with 212 hp. It will be a couple days before the mounts get here so I have time to shop/build base plates.
Not sure what I would do with all my time if I did not have a boat!
Just spoke with Steyr and they are sending new mounts. They said 3/8 thick angle could be used to fabricate the base for the mount. Looking at the pics from the IQM website it looks to be not much more than angle aluminum. I am only dealing with about 733 lbs of motor with 212 hp. It will be a couple days before the mounts get here so I have time to shop/build base plates.
Not sure what I would do with all my time if I did not have a boat!
The wife always sais, "remember, we talked about that we agreed......"
Not going to BS you here, I guess I took in a lot of good info at the show....but I am drawing a blank on the mounts. I yanked the AC box, moved the fuel vent line, and rerouted raw water to avoid chafing per you recomendations. Wondering if I wrote it sown and put it into one of my to do piles?
Not going to BS you here, I guess I took in a lot of good info at the show....but I am drawing a blank on the mounts. I yanked the AC box, moved the fuel vent line, and rerouted raw water to avoid chafing per you recomendations. Wondering if I wrote it sown and put it into one of my to do piles?
Bill, you are right. I called my yard guy last night after I read your post and asked what material we were using to make my wedges. He said PVC stock, starboard too soft. I assumed it was starboard, but it didn't make sense that mine weren't slippery at all and easy to install / align. Anyway, sorry Kevin for the bad advise, I revise my recommendation to PVC wedges.
Eddy G.
Eddy G.
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scot
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Oct 3rd, '06, 09:47
- Location: Hurricane Alley, Texas
- Contact:
Kevin,
I posted this link a while back, not exactly what your doing but a good read on shaft alignment issues.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/alignment.htm
I posted this link a while back, not exactly what your doing but a good read on shaft alignment issues.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/alignment.htm
Scot
1969 Bertram 25 "Roly Poly"
she'll float one of these days.. no really it will :-0
1969 Bertram 25 "Roly Poly"
she'll float one of these days.. no really it will :-0
Just recieved the new mounts in the mail today. Leaving for Camp Blanding on sunday for the week. Guess I will have till I get back to fix the boat. Steyr sent me mounts made by Poly Flex. They told me it was an upgrade from the stock mounts. I thought that was pretty cool of them. They look tough, but we will see if they can stand up to the punishment of me doing the install.
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