for you hot rodders

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 26th, '15, 21:18

i have been away from the boating seen for a while,just had to take a break.lately i enjoy the hell out of going thru the gears in my corvette but quite to my surprised 330hp in a Vette just don`t hack it anymore.SO i took 6 months to build a replacement engine,kind of nice to have a very close friend still at it at 72yo. Richie owns the famous PCHS racing engine on long island.a million dollar automotive machine shop with the latest and greatest computer controlled machines and as i started to build this monster i felt i was in a time warp! first we align hone the mains dead perfect and from that point on you place in this giant machine held by the main bearings and dial in motor in this case 1972 4 bolt main 400" thick casting (1970-72) 400" sbc. there were errors in the GM casting as follows exact 90degree bore to crank perfect but center to center off and deck surface all over taper from .007 to .022.we bore and plate hone to .040 over to make perfect.i have to say in fifty years i never seen align hone the camshaft bore (dead 0 ) the cam to the crank!!! after stroker forged crank was installed spin crank with pinky.special H beam forged rods and forged piston .well the short block was complete with Lunati roller cam,roller lifters.well we all know the hp is in the cylinder heads so Air Flow Research built a set of completely CNC aluminum heads with SS. valves.most of you know when you get into a project like this you fall deeper and deeper in the $$$$ hole everything and i do mean everything is special.i completed engine and richie made four pulls on the dyno. and we decided to reduce hp but increase street manners by decreasing carb,single plane manifold to air gap dual plane and 750cfm. trick Holley we ended up with 516 hp at a very reasonable 5800 rpm.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 26th, '15, 21:23

i realize this is a long winded post but what the hell we have a snow blizzard outside.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jan 26th, '15, 21:34

Looking good Bob. That is healthy and like you said 330 HP just does not cut it these days. The average mid size sedan with a V6 is close to that now. Throw turbos into the mix and things get wild pretty quick. Been thinking about what combo to build when the time comes for me. I take it that AFR is still the best thing going? My current set up is Edelbrock on the top end and its about 15 years old.
You guys are in for one heck of a storm up there.
Since the weather has been a cool 65-70 degrees I took advantage of it and finally wrapped up my interior redo on the car. It only took 3 years. I will try to post some photos later.
Good luck with the install. Hope you have a generator!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 26th, '15, 22:06

Bob

That is sweet. Brings back memories when I used to work at my fathers place. Used to tear down and rebuild engines all the time. Oh to be 16 again.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 26th, '15, 22:07

the AFR heads we more then 45 hp over dart at 6200 rpm needless to say the cam is 540" lift at 286 degree duration if i step up to 600" lift the AFR would go berserk! this is a street motor that why i went with Elderbrock rpm Air Gap manifold a real work of art and looks nice with red MSD dizzy and red under header wires held in by alluminum billet closed wire ways. thanks for the compliment

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 26th, '15, 23:07

Very nice Bob.....love the Chevy Orange! ! !

hb

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 27th, '15, 08:07

Tony Meola wrote:Bob

That is sweet. Brings back memories when I used to work at my fathers place. Used to tear down and rebuild engines all the time. Oh to be 16 again.

Its never too late.

I'm in the midst of my second teenage life cycle. I feel like a dodge. They run great right before they blow up.

Nice job Bob. Beautiful engine.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jan 27th, '15, 08:16

That's a lot of power from a SBC. Be sure to post a video of your smokey burn-outs!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 27th, '15, 08:57

camB we had her up to 565hp then remove manifold,850 dominator carb,600" lift cam and the top rpm HP.drop off quite a bit don`t forget this is a street only motor so i need power curve from 2000 to 5600 rpm.i will have a great (launch ratio with 3.55 rear gears and 3.08 first gear in 700R4 gear box. yes big burn outs because thats my insurance (something gotta give) if i hook up the half shafts will twist out of rear differentials.i already changed U-joints to Moroso HD.but still the weak link on a corvette.

MarkS · Post by **MarkS** » Jan 27th, '15, 12:12

Me likey!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 27th, '15, 13:27

bruce i truly was in a state of shock with the today prices namely every single bolt and (main bolt studs) are ARP .went with 12 sided special head bolts also extra long because the AFR heads are way thicker then normal bow tie heads to allow for turbo,blower,juice.they allow you to get in between roller rockers and stud girdle to check torque.i learn a lot from Richie especially installing a roller cam that can easily self destruct if cam button tolerance is off.a real art to balance todays stroker crank because the throws are knife edge with lightening holes in arms the balance procedure must be done by drilling and using heavy metal----real talent to get it right the first time!!!! you never get to old for this stuff.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 27th, '15, 16:37

I'm not sure what language you guys are communicating in.. I think it a sub dialect of English because I recognize some of the words, but I'm not sure. In any event.. the engine really looks pretty!

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 27th, '15, 17:58

the engine really looks pretty!

pretty come on frank, its bad ass

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 27th, '15, 18:47

IRGuy wrote:I'm not sure what language you guys are communicating in.. I think it a sub dialect of English because I recognize some of the words, but I'm not sure. In any event.. the engine really looks pretty!

We also have a secret hand shake.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 27th, '15, 19:05

Nice Bob. Very nice.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 28th, '15, 07:01

Nice...real nice Bob.

Cost of everything is high...but today you can get what you were going after years ago...and you can prove it.
Its just that Speed Costs...and real speed cost more.

516hp should be fun to drive. I'd take that over the new vette...even the Z06.

Enjoy!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 28th, '15, 09:56

IR guy look at our world.when we talk others get the same silent stare how about basket in the riggings,rode,monkey fist or coosa,lay up,balsa core .lets just say for guys like bruce,carl harry and i it is de ja vous all over again . brothers thanks for compliment ,it took many hours to complete but no kidding all the power is in the heads truly flawless work.after purchase we broke down heads to check for possible metal chips -----perfect, never saw Bee hive outer valve springs before with titanium retainers like i said time warp and constant harrassment in the wee hours of the morning.sure is hard to soar with the eagles when you work with turkeys for years!!!!!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 28th, '15, 12:34

carl,harry this is the latest and greatest for center of crank boring,decking and most of all truing up a block in exact center to center bores,exact 90 degree to centerline of crank,center of crank bore to center of camshaft bore ,and this day and age the "QUENCH" volume made from piston to deck height,piston eyebrow or valve clearance cuts in top of piston in volume,head gasket thickness volume ,cylinder head combustion chamber volume.should all add up to around .040 to.045cc any more you risk detonation plus you leave HP. on table.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 28th, '15, 12:36

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 28th, '15, 12:43

these are the honing plates we place on deck of motor then torque like cylinder heads it puts engine block at same stress as with head bolts in it torque to spec.cylinders will look like mirrors when honed .rings are super thin 3/32" so thin we break in on dyno.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 29th, '15, 08:09

Ut oh...

Haas...

They are "Nice Machines" Bob, not quite the latest and greatest....more of the "Chevy's" in the machining world.
Take it from someone who has a floor full of them from early 90's going up to last years model.

In the right hands...very capable of doing what needed to be done.

The Ut Oh comment is because if you try to push these machines beyond there capabilities...well its kinda like running a 31Bertram and a SeaRay in heavy snot... One boat is coming back a bit beatup if it tries to run Head to head...but if the SeaRay takes its time, the Searay will get back just fine...and it will be ready to go out for more. For that reason they get a bad rap...I mention as you'll hear it soon enough from others.
Its the Trim Tab debate of the machining world...do they have a place or are they taboo.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 29th, '15, 08:35

carl some shops are still using boring bars,S&K uses the next generation Rottlier which bores by the oil pan rails and still uses original bores as guide but air to center boring bar this makes it one notch above boring bar but this machine disregards original bore and makes perfect is you spent a million still cannot beat that.may have more bells and whistles but is state of art in AUTO machine shop.MRD, S&K,JACK MERKEL,ZUL racing, Jenkins, this is it.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jan 29th, '15, 11:37

Bob, not about bells and whistles.. Its about durability, ruggedness, and yes, the ability to hold tolerance.

Haas gets the job done, but its a cheap machine. Not knocking it compared to old school, and not knocking your buddies shop at all!!!! That is a spectacular set up for what he is using it for. And you are COMPLETELY correct, its light years ahead of the old fashioned way!!!!

But the Haas is a throw away machine in the CNC world. Truly it is the Sea Ray of the machining world. It will get you out on the water, but when the weather picks up, you stay in port.

Carl is right.

Respectfully,

Dug

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 29th, '15, 13:32

very well explained Dug. are you ready for ear piecing screaming during the wee hours of night?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 29th, '15, 14:12

bob lico wrote:very well explained Dug. are you ready for ear piecing screaming during the wee hours of night?

Oh, that was a hit below the belt...

LOL

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 29th, '15, 15:21

carl i would never,ever say anything to insult you just preparing dug for new addition to his family.a very long time ago when i work a bridgeport miller during college years i spoke of race engines and the old time toolmaker working on a piece for the LEM at .0001 for GRUMMANS AIRCRARAFT (that actually went to the moon)BOB that`s like plus or minus a foot-HA,HA.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 29th, '15, 17:10

Bob, A friend of mine just transformed that Gruman building into a major Movie Studio...said the electrical system in that places was absolutely ridiculous over the top X2...small world.

No, I understood your comment directed towards Dug was a preparation for what will be.
I know it is one of those things you just don't understand till your a parent on a week of sleepless nights...baby is wailing, your running out the door at 3am to find an open pharmacy in Spongebob boxers with your wifes slippers and wreak of of baby vomit. When you get to the baby aisle in the store you look over and laugh at the guy next to you...thinking what a smuck, black socks and sandals....then look down at your pink slippers, give him a grin and head to the register with your whatever you were sent out for...never makes a difference...baby is up again in an hour...if your lucky.

I just found it funny that we may have sort of burst your bubble about "Haas" machines being State of the Art...followed with your mention of the upcoming sleepless nights he will be having. Its a friendly dig in my book...even if you were not intending it to be one. Thats why I made the dig apparent just in case...yeah...I am bad that way.

As to me being insulted...not even close. Nor or am I sure why I would be...I am the one who brought up Haas machines being less then robust and that they are not the most accurate machine on the market. I mentioned more as a preparation for you...some people in the trade have an idea that a better machine has to make a better part. Not always the case. Proof is in the pudding...your pudding is rated at a toned down, street drivable 516hp.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jan 30th, '15, 02:43

Seriously, having raised 4 rug rats, it's all in how you train them while taking into account their bodily functions and needs...

First rule we had was the house continues with it's own rhythm... No speaking in hushed tones or not having friends over because "the baby is sleeping"... They almost immediately learned to ignore the house sounds!...

Second rule was to be proactive... One before last feeding was somewhere between 7 and 8 PM... If needed, the diaper was changed at that time too... Last diaper change and feeding was somewhere between 11 and 12 PM... That way they (99% of the time) slept like babies (pun intended) until about 6 AM... Which was when we started our day anyway...

Talking about diapers, the current disposable ones are excellent... If there's no brown stuff they can have it on for as much as 6 hours... All the yellow stuff gets sucked up into the diaper and baby stays dry... And, just in case your Admiral is thinking about getting cloth diapers for green reasons - remind her of the solution that laundry causes... Between the energy and water usage and the detergent consumption I doubt they're greener then the disposable ones... I don't doubt for a second that they're FAR less effective...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 30th, '15, 06:53

Navatech wrote:Seriously, having raised 4 rug rats, it's all in how you train them while taking into account their bodily functions and needs...

First rule we had was the house continues with it's own rhythm... No speaking in hushed tones or not having friends over because "the baby is sleeping"... They almost immediately learned to ignore the house sounds!...

Second rule was to be proactive... One before last feeding was somewhere between 7 and 8 PM... If needed, the diaper was changed at that time too... Last diaper change and feeding was somewhere between 11 and 12 PM... That way they (99% of the time) slept like babies (pun intended) until about 6 AM... Which was when we started our day anyway...

Talking about diapers, the current disposable ones are excellent... If there's no brown stuff they can have it on for as much as 6 hours... All the yellow stuff gets sucked up into the diaper and baby stays dry... And, just in case your Admiral is thinking about getting cloth diapers for green reasons - remind her of the solution that laundry causes... Between the energy and water usage and the detergent consumption I doubt they're greener then the disposable ones... I don't doubt for a second that they're FAR less effective...

Navatech...with my first daughter I'd have agreed with you 100%. She was easy and a real pleasure. A couple nights of discomfort till she was on the right formula, but that was it. I was supposed to stay home a day each week with her but wound up making business meetings and personal deliveries on those days with her,..family oriented places that didn't mind a happy baby enjoying life in her favorite place...car seat. Made alot of great deals that way, went fishing a couple times too. Take her out to a restaurant...she couldn't be happier looking around at everybody....people over, dog barking...not a problem. Family and friends were always coming around with lots of invites...

Now my 2nd daughter...forgetaboutit. She came out of the hole crying and wailing...that didn't stop till maybe 6 months or so. Maybe more, maybe less all I know...she cried and cried...at night it was worse. We were walking Zombies...only good thing for me...she'd look at me when I got home and start wailing....I was told to go away. So I just had to keep them all fed, clean the house, laundry, shop etc...Doreen had to deal with "her". I did my share too...but the option of going to soothe a crying baby that turned into a wailing baby just by my presence wasn't a great choice. Family and friends...they didn't come around much, couldn't take her to a drive thru never mind a restaurant...hell, you didn't want to be in a car with her.
Then one day...the crying just stopped.

Back to Hot Rodden...516hp will put you back in your seat very nice.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jan 30th, '15, 10:06

Carl wrote:Now my 2nd daughter...forgetaboutit.

Maybe I DID get lucky with going 4 for 4... I wouldn't know... All I can do is share my experience...

Carl wrote:Then one day...the crying just stopped.

Yep... That's the one thing suffering parents have to look forward to...

Carl wrote:Back to Hot Rodden...516hp will put you back in your seat very nice.

I wonder... What can I do to my SSR's 5.3 L V8?!...

1962 31 · Post by **1962 31** » Jan 30th, '15, 15:32

I wonder... What can I do to my SSR's 5.3 L V8?!..

totally different animal and in my eyes wayyyyyy better
I grew up messing with small block Chevy's and Pontiac motors fire breathing gas guzzling beasts
new technology as in your 5.3 or any of the ls style motors "lsx" is the only way to go for me
small turbo on your 5.3 with a conservative tune via laptop not jet changes and 650 horse is very achievable
and still get good fuel economy
we built a c5 corvette stock internals balanced and blueprinted twin turbo 28 mpg and just shy of 800 hp
I still have a place in my heart for the old stuff but its getting smaller lol

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 30th, '15, 17:23

thats just the point i don`t want LX engine and definitely no turbo,supercharger on this 1971 stock body corvette.i want seventies look and the heads flow far better then LX heads and i have full roller engine with far bette roller rockers then those self destruct ones on 6.2 LX motor.here is top of motor going together plumbing for fuel gauge to be determine.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 30th, '15, 17:27

Elderbrock air gap manifold keeps hot oil away from fuel plenum and semi divider give the engine a strong kick 3000 rpm plus.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jan 30th, '15, 23:55

Bob...all this is just self-manipulation (can't spell masturbation),,,,smokey burn-out video will do ALL the talkin'. All we have is an engine on a stand....get 'er done!

very jealous,
Cam

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 31st, '15, 08:58

bob lico wrote:thats just the point i don`t want LX engine and definitely no turbo,supercharger on this 1971 stock body corvette.i want seventies look

Why bolt on power and detract from the cars original look when you can maximize what you have...

What you did fits the car very well.

Don't get me wrong...replacing with a crate engine then bolting on more power is real attractive too...just gives a different feel.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 31st, '15, 12:44

thank you carl now how do i construct a tee by removing 1/8 NPT plug and use close nipple ,tee with fuel gauge on left and some how reduce to a .060 orifice then utilize outside of tee thread to connect to 5/16" steel pile that i will bent to contour of block. should i use 95/5 solder and some how use something to block solder from running or do you have another method?

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Jan 31st, '15, 16:19

1962 31 wrote:small turbo on your 5.3

With or without intercooler?!... And, would there be a kit available or would I have to "roll my own"?!...

1962 31 wrote:with a conservative tune via laptop

I have a dedicated tuner (I doubt there's Mac software for tuning)... Will that do?!...

1962 31 wrote:650 horse is very achievable

Sounds good!...

1962 31 wrote:still get good fuel economy

With an overall average of 16-17 MPG at best this isn't a fuel economy vehicle to begin with... Certainly not with my style of driving (lead foot)...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 1st, '15, 08:56

Bob,
I can TIG weld, My MIG welding is passable to those that don't know better.
Stick welding, Brazing & Solder is not my thing at all...

As to making an .06 orifice...look up snubbers. Basically an inline fitting with small hole.

Here are a few...just drill ID to size you need if you can't find the size you need elsewhere.
Or pick the size that would work for you, I'll add to my next order, drill and send to you.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#pressure-gauge ... rs/=vpx5e3

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 1st, '15, 09:06

Navatech wrote: With an overall average of 16-17 MPG at best this isn't a fuel economy vehicle to begin with... Certainly not with my style of driving (lead foot)...

I have a hand in putting together supercharger kits for a local company...but that another story. Whether you go turbo or supercharger...add headers so the motor can breathe, coolers to reduce air temp then tune so motor can figure out how to utilize...the mileage usually jumps up a good deal...till you lay into it, then just head towards the nearest gas station.
The good mileage is a great selling point to the little lady at home...she won't believe you...but then you didn't believe that the upgraded stove-top and oven would make her a better cook either.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 2nd, '15, 13:01

Bob,
That motor looks like a Yanmar...
Just kiddin. My wife has a LS1 350hp in her vette and hasn't even gotten a second gear scratch yet.
John.

Navatech · Post by **Navatech** » Feb 3rd, '15, 01:19

Carl wrote:Whether you go turbo or supercharger...add headers so the motor can breathe, coolers to reduce air temp then tune so motor can figure out how to utilize...

I've looked on-line... No kits :-(

Personally I think I would prefer a super charger but kind of hesitant to pour money down what seems to be a serious R&D project...

Carl wrote:The good mileage is a great selling point to the little lady at home...she won't believe you...but then you didn't believe that the upgraded stove-top and oven would make her a better cook either.

First, I do most of the cooking at my castle... I work from home when I'm not traveling... Second, I'm lucky enough that I don't have to run my toys by the Admiral :-)

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Feb 3rd, '15, 10:06

Dug: Congratulations! I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter at home so I have recent experience. My first child a the tender young age of 50!. LOL! You will love it! The family (and the economy) has kept me off the water more than I would like though.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 3rd, '15, 14:36

carl i fill the transition piece after the brass tee with braze then drill a .062 bleeder hole for gas to return to the tank by way of return 5/16" line to tank.this keeps gas moving and prevent boil over,stalling on hot day,better performance by way of cool fuel like the Bertram.engine is complete now i scrounge around looking for late model 700r4 Chevolet overdrive transmission to build for 700 hp.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Feb 3rd, '15, 17:01

Bob: Sounds basically like a pressure gauge dampener.