Bertram 25 Weight...for towing

[Corey Mason]

So it looks like the wife's old 4runner is about to die and we are looking at buying another vehicle. Knowing that I am in the process of looking for a b25 Mark II, I want to kill 2 birds with one stone and buy a vehicle that will be able to tow the b25 as well. We are really looking for at buying another 4runner (2000-2006). The 4runner says it has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs.

How much would you say a the b25 weighs WITH a SINGLE 225 outboard? I plan on getting a project and pulling the old engines out, hanging a single 225, and installing 2 smaller tanks, which I will probably only fill one during most uses (unless planning a long trip).

Do you think I could pull it with a 4runner? I won't be pulling it far, we live in Pensacola so to get to the dock is only about a 20 min trip on pretty much all flat ground.

[mike ohlstein]

4000 to 6000 pounds depending on the model? Flybridge toward the upper and Moppie toward the lower, I would guess.

Get a trailer with brakes that work well.

[Bertramp]

Check the beam on a 25.
Some states only allow 8' beam and the 25 is over that.

[captbone]

It will be close. Depending on how your rig it. I would do it for 20miles as long as the trailer had brakes. Any longer and I would say get a bigger tow vehicle.

[Pete Fallon]

Corey,
A fully loaded 25 FBC will weigh up to 7,500 pounds, for long haul towing I recommend that you get the biggest vehicle you can. Make sure that it has a towing package option on it, larger brakes. oil/tranny cooler, fully welded class 3 hitch with a 2-5/8 ball, and sway bar option. I towed a 31 Jupiter for years on the SKA circuit (9600) pounds fully loaded. We towed from Ft Lauderdale to Key West south, west to Bolixi Miss and north to Morehead City, NC. Never had a problem but we had the correct vehicle a F-350 diesel dually with tow package. I suggest the largest vehicle you can afford, that beats the capacity rating by at least 500 pounds over, make sure it has the best hitch, not just a tack welded Mexican made hitch. Good luck with what ever you buy both boat and truck wise.
Pete Fallon

[Michael]

Here is the spec sheet for the B25. Given that you plan to only hang a 225hp outboard on it, I suspect your total weight will be less than all the option here

http://bertram25.com/pdf/b25data.pdf

[MarkS]

You'll kill a 4Runner in short order in my opinion. I pull mine all over with an Excursion with a V10 gas sucking pig. I wouldn't pull that boat with anything less than a 3/4 ton truck of your choice. It will push you through a stop sign even with good trailer brakes if you don't have the stopping weight.
My $.02

[Rocky]

Corey I would not tow such a boat that is that heavy with a vehicle that doesn't have much wheel base, and stopping power. The 4Runner transmission for one will not like you it will overheat/fail in no time on the earlier 2000 4Runners. Something longer and 3/4 ton your discretion on brand. The engine, wether it be the 3.4 or the 4.0L are O.K., but the rest of the vehicle just isn't up to par for the job. I'd question even the Tahoe or Expedition to tow that safely at highway speeds.

[Corey Mason]

I saw that data sheet....but wasnt exactly sure which size motor I should use. I know the single outboard will be much lighter, but how much lighter im not sure.

I think im going to keep our old 4runner (after I fix it) and if it dies it dies (its worth only $1500 imo). I might end up just storing the boat in a boat yard 2 miles from the ramp (theres tons around here). That wo uld be fine for the 4runner, but I guess when my truck also dies in probably 2-3 years Ill just upgrade to a pick up.

I figured it was underpowered, was hoping somebody had better experience since it is relatively short. And it nvr goes on the highway, just a 2lane road...flat...top speed, 45mph.



Thanks guys!

[BCBertie]

Just being a little nit-picky, but we all know where the devil lies...

You'll need a Class IV hitch. Class III is only rated to 5,000 lbs, Class IV to 10,000 lbs. They are available with either 2" or 2.5" receiver openings. Likewise the ball mount and ball are available in Class IV at either the 2"/2" size or 2"/ 2 & 5/16" size. The ball size needs to match your trailer (naturally!).

Everyone is quite right about the strain on the 4Runner's brakes, cooling, etc. It really isn't the right vehicle for what most of us think as towing a boat. Will it work for 2 miles? Yeah, probably. But, if it works, will you be able to resist the temptation to go a little farther? Trust me, it is no fun when the tail wags the dog!

Lastly, remember hitch and vehicle tow ratings include the trailer weight and all the stuff you keep inside the boat from lines, anchors, fuel, water, etc. Even a 5,000 lb boat on a steel trailer is likely to weigh at least 7,500 lbs ready to tow.

Good luck!

John

[Corey Mason]

Very true. Was just curious if I could use the 4runner to get by until I can afford a better vehicle. I think ill just use my father in laws Tacoma to take it to the boat yard, and then just slowly kill my 4runner just taking it to the ramp.

[mike ohlstein]

I saw that data sheet....but wasnt exactly sure which size motor I should use. I know the single outboard will be much lighter, but how much lighter im not sure.
Thanks guys!

You won't be 'much' lighter. A Yamaha 225 four stroke is 608 lbs dry. That's about the same as a 350 Chevy with transmission. So you'll be down the weight of one engine.

[CamB25]

4Runner and a B25 seems like a disaster of a marriage. In my opinion, you need a long well base truck with BIG brakes! My 2012 F150 Screw with the ecoboost V6 and tall gears in the rear tows like a dream, and gets 21mpg on the highway when you are not towing anything, no matter how it's loaded with people and gear.

I towed my B25 back and forth a few times from VA to NC with my old truck - 1997 F150, 4.6. Not much GO power, but absolutely scary when trying to stop - no WO power! Don't forget about the brakes!

If you are just hauling around the neighborhood, you can get by with just about anything that has some stopping power. Make sure your trailer brakes are in good working order!

[captbone]

I would honestly be shocked if the boat he is describing weighs more than 4500lbs. I had the exact boat that he is describing and it was not over 5000lbs. 25ft Bertrams are light bare hulls. They are very well constructed but they are not heavy boats. This is backed up by the spec sheet as well.

The boat he is describing does not weight more than 4500lbs and that includes boat, motor and fuel.

[Corey Mason]

I would honestly be shocked if the boat he is describing weighs more than 4500lbs. I had the exact boat that he is describing and it was not over 5000lbs. 25ft Bertrams are light bare hulls. They are very well constructed but they are not heavy boats. This is backed up by the spec sheet as well.

The boat he is describing does not weight more than 4500lbs and that includes boat, motor and fuel.

Thats what I was thinking as well. I've heard that they are actually relatively light hulls; but I keep hearing people say big numbers. Having a look at that data sheet and planning to only tow it a few miles to the ramp, I think I will be fine for awhile. My father had a 24ft wellscraft CC that he towed with the old school 1990 Astro Minivan. It was a B!tch getting up hill...and stopping took 2 miles, but we managed it just fine.

In theory, yes I agree it does sound like a catastrophe waiting to happen. But looking at the numbers, I think with the trailer it will actually be only slightly over the tow rating...and its only a couple miles pull each way.

[CamB25]

Sounds like you can make do with what you have if you are only going short distances at low speeds. A couple of items to consider...maybe for your next tow vehicle:

Width - damn wide boat...can't see anything out the rear or much out the side mirrors. I have a wide load permit for mine in case Johnny Law needs to fill a quota. Big trailer towing mirrors would be a plus.
Trailer weight - my trailer weighs 2,000 lbs. (I measured it with race car wheel scales). My trailer is a 10k lbs. galvanized steel tank of a trailer. Need to consider this in the total tow weight. I am estimating my boat, when finished, will be around 6.5k lbs. (3500 hull + 1000 added structure +1000 engine + 1000 fuel) +2k for the trailer puts me at 8.5K on the road. My truck is rated for around 10k.
Ramp angle - the ramp I use is very steep and wet...4wd is sometimes necessary for pulling my Scout out.
Winch - I haven't tried to winch the Bertram out of the water (it hasn't seen water since 1990), but I would want a two speed winch or an electric version.
You Tube: All trailer mishaps must be filmed and distributed worldwide. Really interesting videos will be considered for Darwin awards (Frank runs that dept.!)

Good Luck!
Cam

[DanielM]

My father had a 24ft wellscraft CC that he towed with the old school 1990 Astro Minivan. It was a B!tch getting up hill...and stopping took 2 miles, but we managed it just fine.

Years ago when I was younger and even dumber than I am now, the first boat I towed that had any real 'heft' I towed with my 'old school' mid 80's Astro van. The boat weighed about what the van weighed but I was only pulling it 'short' distances.

It was also the first trailer I ever towed with trailer brakes. When I bought the boat I naively asked the older gentleman I bought it from "Can you tell when the trailer brakes kick in?" and he said "Well boy, you can damn sure tell when they don't ". A year or so later I had a problem with the trailer brakes and found out that the fellow was absolutely correct.

Spend the money for a trailer with good brakes and keep them up.

Best of luck with your 25.

[lpd3]

I was towing my B25 95 miles each way from home to the coast until I rented a shed. Didn’t like it a bit. Was using a 2500 Suburban with the 6.0 engine. It stopped well but was way under powered. I now use a Expedition EL, longer wheelbase, with the 5.4 and it has more power and tows OK but stopping is always a test. I would get the largest vehicle with the biggest engine you can afford and you should be alright.



--------------------------

1972 B25 254-1792

[acarb]

I took possession of mine this past weekend. We took it to the scales and it weighed 7400 lbs including trailor. Flybridge model with .25 tank of fuel and twin 4cyl inboards. I can pull it with my 05 F150 but it is a strain on the brakes. We are looking for an old dually for a tow vehicle. The beam is 10 ft so check if you need permits in your area.
As mentioned above, anything less that a 3/4 ton truck would be tough.

[scot]

No.

[JamesN]

If you are looking to upgrade your old 4Runner with a newer one, check out the 2006-2009's with the 4.7 v8's with the towing package they will handle 7300 lbs.

Not that this would be my ideal vehicle for towing a 25B, but it will give you a little more towing capacity than the v6 4Runners if you plan to stick with a 4Runner.

[HilaryS]

A few things I would recommend keeping in mind for any tow vehicle. The towing capacity and restriction is based on the amount of weight that vehicle's braking system and drive train can safely handle. As brake failures, especially trailer brakes, do occur on occasion, I have always tried to have at least 20% additional capacity than the actual weight of my load. This is separate from performance when towing. Whenever speeds are exceeding roughly 30 MPH wind resistance becomes a steadily increasing factor which is overcome by power. If you plan on regularly traveling on highways I would recommend getting a vehicle with a high HP rating for its category, as this will help increase your performance and is generally accompanied by a more robust drive train which wont' wear out as quick.

[Corey Mason]

It would nvr see a highway, top road mph is 45 (which is about 1 mile) the rest if 25/35mph.

But I think im just going to get a regular truck...figure about the time the Bert is finished, my 1994 ranger will be close to dying.