Crewless ships on the horizon

[IRGuy]

Today we are on the verge of having driverless cars.. Tomorrow crewless ships!

http://www.thelocal.no/20140911/crewles ... r-the-seas

[Harry Babb]

That's pretty cool Frank.....I can see it happening.....not a surprise.

Guess thats Autopilot on steroids....

hb

[Navatech]

Over 3 decades ago when I was an marine engineering cadet sailing on a Panamax box carrier (container vessel) we already had automated and unmanned (during the night) engine rooms... Back then the joke was that in 20 years the only crew on a ship would be a monkey and a captain... The monkey to press the buttons and the captain to feed the monkey...

[Rawleigh]

They may have minimal crews, but I don't see no crews. Until they get to the point they can repair themselves, shit happens, and it will need crew to fix it.

[Navatech]

They may have minimal crews, but I don't see no crews. Until they get to the point they can repair themselves, shit happens, and it will need crew to fix it.

That is EXACTLY what the monkey joke above refers to (albeit obliquely)... If you can teach the monkey to press the right buttons you could teach it to open the fridge and grab a banana...

FWIW, the "holy grail" thinking seems to be no crew... Repair crews to be shuttled to a stricken vessel when needed... It's idiocy IMHO but what do I (2nd generation marine engineer with a side line in computer programming) know?!... The AI (Artificial Intelligence) required for this to work is nowhere near in existence... Even the current "automated" engine rooms are not much more then electronically monitored engine rooms... When an alarm is tripped the engineer on duty has a given amount of time to respond... If he fails to do so the system will simply shut down the engine in order to avoid (bigger) damage... Most ocean going commercial vessels have 3 main auxiliary engines (generators)... Any 1 for low capacity requirements (e.g. "house" needs while in port)... Any 1 & 2 for when underway... Those big pumps and those reefers consume a lot of power... With the 3rd one being the reserve... These are quite big units... In fact, the engines driving them are sometimes used as main (propulsion) engines on smaller vessels... You don't just hit the start button on these... 1st you open the decompression valves... Then you turn the engine (on the air pressure starter)... You make sure there's no water in the cylinders... Then you close the decompression valves... Then you start the engine... Then you let it warm up and monitor the pressures and temperatures... Then you go to the main switchboard and synchronize (align the 3 electrical phases) the unit to the board... Then you take of the load off the unit that you want to stop... Then you stop that unit... I suppose all that could be automated but what happens when the scenario doesn't work?!...

In fact, most of the newer ships have what's called a shaft generator... The idea being that the bigger the power plant the more efficient it will be... So, once at sea, the vessel's power needs are supplied by the shaft generator... The engine is variably loaded by a CPP (Controllable Pitch Propellor) as the shaft generator requires a constant set RPM... The 3 auxiliary units are still there but they're all in standby mode... You'd need a very intelligent monkey to run all that... And no AI currently in existence equals the intelligence of a regular monkey...

Some people seem to think that a fully automated ship is nothing more then a somewhat upgraded "Iron Mike"... They're wrong!... Personally, I'd be hesitant to travel in an automated car... I would NOT even think about it unless there was a manual override... The marine insurance industry is very conservative... They won't be certifying fully automated ships anytime soon... And no ship owner/operator will embark without insurance...

Yes, the article states that "human error causes more than 75 percent of today’s vessel accidents" but it doesn't state what percentage of major calamities are averted by human crew members... E.g. a crew member putting out a small fire before it can grow and do major damage... Or a crew member noticing a leak and getting it fixed before major damage occurs... We all own and operate boats... We all know that even with proper maintenance shit "happens"... From inlets that get blocked by nylons to hoses that burst and anything in between...

[Rawleigh]

Not to mention the constant preventative maintenance that the crew does while at sea.

[Carl]

It's like in my business...the holy grail is lights out operation.

Load up the machines with material, change out to new sharp tooling, empty the chip drums, kill the lights and go home.

Yes you can monitor and bring up video feeds...but all too often that job that runs non stop all day long without a hiccup...hangs up soon as you close that door and nobody is around to hear that tool squealing before she lets go.

Can it be done...sure can...Hell I have been sitting here for hours since we closed at 1:30. I just sit here listening to machines rattling off parts, feeding new material as I do quotes, order stuff...sure I could leave. Machines hit the end of the cycle or alarm out, they cool off a bit and shut them selves down....or on a rare occasion something goes off and I am needed to intervene...I know I can usually tell when something sounds or feels off from the other end of the shop...I can go check in very short time before something really goes wrong.

A ship out at sea....A big piece of floating hardware in an unfriendly environment. 99% of the time there will not be an issue...but 1% is a pretty big number when you realize how many ships are out there.

[Harry Babb]

It's like in my business...the holy grail is lights out operation.

Load up the machines with material, change out to new sharp tooling, empty the chip drums, kill the lights and go home.

Carl
Funny story.....We actually have several jobs that we run "Lights Out".....and your right.....when it works its SAWWEEEEEETT.....

One of our Barfeed Machines is a Daewoo 200 with a Mits Control. On the control panel the "Cabinet Light Switch" is located right next to the "Coolant Switch"......wanna guess where this is going!?!?!?........Yuppp......you guessed it.....one of the guys (and a good dependable smart machinist) simply reached up and turned off the "Coolant" then walked out and went home.....not a pretty sight the next morning.

hb

[Carl]

Harry, your a better man then me for going lights out.

I have taken it so far as to close up the doors on a Saturday afternoon and hit the hardware store, drop off a job before heading back....not sure Id make it thru a nights sleep with machine running. But then i have been somewhat unlucky in a lucky way the past few years. Maybe someday...

Killed the coolant before leaving...that is funny....but more so as it didn't happen to me.

When I screw up, its almost always for the simplest reasons. Its one reason I will never talk to someone when I am running or setting up a machine. I cannot walk and chew gum. Work or talk cause both jus ain''t happening. Yes i can relate and i am sure i know how your man felt.

Hopefully machine alarmed out without too much of an incident...??

[Harry Babb]

Funny you say what you did.......when I work, I work......when I talk, I talk.....but NEVER at the same time.....my simple mind cannot do both at the same time without poking my eye out......In fact the guys at work think I am pissedoff when I don't talk....I simply have to concentrate....and thats all.

The Daewoo....as I remember, the drill and tap were broken....no problem....but when the "Partoff Blade" broke and did not perform its function the turret crashed into a part that "Was not supposed to be there" when it came to the Bar Feed Op ....that's when the "Melt down" started. Ultimately the damage was minimal.....when the "Bar Feeder" could not reach its destination the computer timed out and stopped the caious.

LIke I said.....when it works its Sweet......but like "Blood Sweat and Tears" described it.....what goes up...must come down! ! !

We have gotten pretty good at running "Lights Out" on the parts that we have ran many times......but it did not come with out a price......now look out for "Run Away Ships".....LOL

hb

[Carl]

Yeah...that's what I need to worry about...run away ships...then again shipping channel is only a couple thousand feet from my doorstep...granted we are up a hill...but ya never know.

Dam cuttoff blades...most issues are due to that, we push them harder in a cut then it takes to melt the blade after insert goes south so it doesn't usually trip the Spindle Load Alarm... Guess I could use Tool Probe to verify...but I'd lose too much time on most jobs...eh irrelevant till we get back on the grid anyway. Running generator all night isn't an option.






I don't know about others...but fishing near a shipping lanes in fog...I feel much better knowing there is somebody at the wheel in those ships.
I know they say its only for long range ocean crossings...but how are we to know ship just isn't going astray...It's alot of mass with nobody at the helm.

[Navatech]

Has anybody mentioned hacking yet?!... Imagine a hacker causing the collision of two ULCC's (supertankers)... Imagine a hacker causing the collision of a vessel and a stationary off shore platform of some kind or another...

[IRGuy]

All this reminds me of the story about the first crewless airplane flight...

After the plane takes off and is at cruising altitude the intercom comes to life and a voice starts talking...

"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to XYZ airlines. You all are priveleged to be flying today on XYZ's first ever all computer controlled flight. You may have noticed that there are no crewmembers in the cabin. There are also no crewmembers up in the cockpit. All functions that were performed by humans on past flights are now being performed by our state of the art computer systems. These systems have been checked and rechecked by our top notch staff of computer programmers, so your flight today is safer than ever, so just sit back and enjoy the flight.. Nothing can go wrong.. can go wrong..can go wrong......."