Fire island this week

[bob lico]

Carl this Bud's for you wish you were here

[bob lico]

[bob lico]

The bay

[bob lico]

Fire island beach 32 miles long with no structures on beach other then a few life guard stands.no roads or any other man made object should be on a beach.

[Charlie J]

looks like the new inlet has cleaned up the bay nice, just what it needed

[Carl]

Oh that's a stake in the heart Bob!
Absolutely Gorgeous!
While I love the Caribbean...Fire Island is really a special place, I can smell the ocean in that picture.
The Bay...never thought it could be that clear...wonder if the clams will lose that "special" flavor?

Thanks for sharing and
have a Clear or two for me as well...






My Fire Island...

This is what I came into the week before last...










5 alarm fire to properties out front...put a few people in critical condition...kids were thrown from upstairs windows....I just got news yesterday they all made it.


NYFD saved my place...unbelievably only a 20 x 30 section of the front, inside ceiling of my building was damaged... plus doors and windows all knocked out etc....but no damage to machines, tooling, computers...just a big butt mess. Power lines down and waiting on Con Edison for underground service plans....but we are up and running with the help of a little generator. Thank goodness for excellent insurance....

Can't say enough how lucky we are...









Send more pictures....

[Pete Fallon]

Carl,
I am glad that everyone is going to recover from the fire. Was it caused by a lightening strike?. That shot of the old tin ceiling with insulation hanging down brings back memories of my days on the fire department, Once the fire gets up inside the tin it just keeps cooking. Hopefully you will be back to normal very soon. I hope the insurance was paid. If I can help with anything give me a call. Good luck.

To Bob Lico,
That shot of the fire Island inlet reminds me of what the waterways around Stuart used to look like, before they started dumping all the fresh water from the lake into the river system. You used to be able to see the bottom around the old Roosevelt Bridge, now last year it was emerald green and the fish were belly up. I few back from Boston last fall, we came in directly over Stuart Inlet the brown water was out over a mile into the ocean.
Pete Fallon

[bob lico]

OMG carl if there is anything i can do let me know.when you get yourself straight again i want to take your family to sailors haven fire island all expenses on me i think you had enough drama in the last two years!

Pete fire island inlet is rather unique there are no jetties just mother nature doing her thing cutting a inlet from ocean to bay pretty yes but south south west wind current can accelerate 40 miles before hitting inlet head on .no protection what so ever except a little sand bar jutting out on east side (democrat point) .usually you take your life in your hand going thru inlet twice a week unless you have a 31 bertram or 40' plus sportfisherman.i captain a 43' carver for a doctor whom wanted to take her out the inlet one time to see jones beach from outside. Calm water damn near broach this sedan ( like a sail in the wind) coming in inlet and thats 43 !

[Carl]

Pete- No, it was an electrical fire in one of the homes out front. Old homes, old wires and renovations had debris piled up waiting on a dumpster. Their tenant had a car parked back there too which blew and spread fire to my building.

I have heard both the tin ceiling saved us and the tin ceiling caused us more problems...

NYFD- saved us, big time.


Two Best things to hear from your insurance adjuster..."your over insured" and "how much do you need me to cut you a check for to get started"



Soon as we hooked up the generator it became my new normal....I am quite happy with this normal for now. Open for business, work is going out, almost caught up for several days lost...aside from the drone of a 350hp diesel generator and a small crew of contractors doing repairs its business as normal.


Bob,
Thank you for the offer. I"ll take you up on meeting at Sailors Haven with the families when I can can take my boat...and your not picking up expenses...except maybe the 1st round. ;-)


Be a great place for a Bertram get together....although I have only been to Watch Hill...love the serenity at night when last ferry leaves during the week.

[bob lico]

Sailers haven is even better! Especially nearby Sunken forest it is not Disney land! Untouch by human hands since fire island was formed hundreds of years ago. Trees and wildlife indiguous to sunken forest only ..a path takes you from bay side to a bluff overlooking ocean .beach is untouch nothing but ocean breaking on beach for 32 miles.sailors haven has toilet,shower facilities and small eatery on bay side.children swim,kayack,in warm clean water to east of marina. Bay side has tables,barbecues all on the feds dime.

[Pete Fallon]

Bob Lico,
The old Stuart (St Lucie Inlet)was like that back before they put the rock jetties to both north and south sides. It used to be a breaking bar with one spot to get in and out of,(5-1/2' of water over the bar) to the north side near Sailfish Point. If you had a small skiff (under 21') you could get out thru the south cut but that didn't happen very often. Back in 1980 the jetties weren't there I watched a high roller boat(Spanish Mackerel net boat) broach in the mouth of he inlet, Spanish mackerel all over the inlet, then the sharks showed up, the feeding frenzie was incredible. Carl I'm glad everything is working out okay after the fire.
Pete Fallon

[bob lico]

Pete thats quite a story and it hits home. Mom and dad live on windmill lane in port St Lucie . I did everything i could and was not sucessful obtaining a court order on the contruction of those condo's on huchinson island over the bridge on jensen beach.every year i dreamt a hurricane would wash those condo's into the ocean. I was told "we don't do that protesting thing down here, go back north" people could care less as they built a double nuclear power house on the northern tip of the island and the locals just went along with it. Finally the sheriff pointed to the border ------- leave! I had 10 homes and plots on east coast and west coast i let the real estate sell and close for me . I have about 50 relatives mostly on west coast whom i told i will never even visit. There is one bright spot At least the locals in the keys feel the same way i do about the environment. Think about it Collins ave in Miami once look like fire island. How in the world did they build the world trade center on Marco island? Nobody said a word. I get sick even talking about it. Boss hog buys out a ma and pop marina and they build a world trade center condo and the people go along with it! Sooner or later you will only have high priced 4 boat tall high and drys and nobody alowed to work on there boats.

[Rawleigh]

Wow, Carl!! i am glad my life is not as eventful as yours! At least you have a "proper" genset!! LOL! UV would be proud! Is that yours or did the insurance Co. provide it?

[PeterPalmieri]

Bob, How long you staying? I think we are headed to Sailors on Saturday, I'm just over 2 months past the shoulder surgery and haven't used the boat yet.

Carl, you've had some tough run of it the last few years. My invitation to have you come out with the family for a day trip to Fire Island is wide open just name the weekend with a few days notice!

BTW I've been avoiding this place lately as I have tried to avoid everything boat and fishing related but I think I'm ready to go now!

Pete

[Carl]

LOL---Who needs TV, my life has become a Soap Opera.
I didn't even mention the Poison Ivy that broke out as I was standing in the pouring rain watching the FD extinguished the flames at 6am.

It's all good...all could have been so much worse.

But think maybe I'll stay on land for a bit longer till life becomes boring again.

I appreciate the offers, I really do.


Rawleigh- Genset is a rental...but see one in my future...although maybe one more suited to my needs. I could run the entire block with this thing.
I told insurance Company I could be up and running in two days if I had a generator...or we would have to wait several weeks for Con Edison to bring power in.
They just told me to do whatever I needed to get up and running ASAP, just submit bills for generator and fuel. A check was cut that day to cover expenses. Hartford has treated me right so far.

[bob lico]

This is a photo of the "breach" just east of smith point.hurricane sandy broke through and a gathering of concern citizens and my attorney stop the state /feds from senting the army corp of a-sholes to fill it in. Senator shoemer realize we had establish the save the great south bay society and it pick up steam when we had stony brook university sciencetist intervene as well as the main long island paper. Well the breach is about 1000' wide and is cleaning the great south bay as well as remarkable hard clam comeback.the sand started to shoal on west side and the breach stop growing in width .bait fish abound ( of course i still cannot live line a bass of size) but everybody is enjoying the view.

[Tony Meola]

Bob

Has the breach changed the tides in the bay? The issue will be in the next big storm, more water will flood into the bay and cause more damage and flooding to homes. I am sure over time it will fill back in.

As you know they closed the breach in Manasquan NJ. That is what contributed to a lot of flooding in our area. Water pooring into the Northern part of the bay and no place to run out. Figure almost 12 miles of bay between the breach in Manasquan and Barnegat Inlet and no place for that water rushing in to go. We were on the wrong side of the eye for that one.

[PeterPalmieri]

Tony,

There has been a lot of studying of our new inlet, which at one time was an old inlet until a ship got wedged in it 100 years ago and it closed up. It has a history going back to the revolution.

As you suggest and most that live on the water front say there is more flooding and will make future storms worse. The science does not support that theory. This should act as a relief valve and allow water to leave the bay quicker in the case of flood tides.

Since this happened on federally protected land the politics are a bit more interesting. This area of the bay was once home to the famous blue point oyster co and also at one time was littered with clam boats. That has long vanished, this section of the island is also where homes still have cesspools and no sewer system, also runoff is a big concern. Outside of a run of snappers in the summer you'd never fish this part of the bay. Now there is a good season of fluke and stripers.

Many of us long for the return of the great south baymen! I'll take off my tree hugging hat now.

[Carl]

Tony,


As you suggest and most that live on the water front say there is more flooding and will make future storms worse. The science does not support that theory. This should act as a relief valve and allow water to leave the bay quicker in the case of flood tides.

My thought is once you already have the water in...the damage is done.
Other then getting back into the flooded area sooner to see what havoc was created by the flood...whats the difference if water drains quicker?

Only benefit I see is a second surge may not be as bad as water is let to escape on falling tide. But two intense tidal surges with no relief, like Sandy...I don't see the benefit. And for a single mild surge water comes in faster...

Its a scenario I'd like to see done in a simulator and play with the variables.

[jspiezio]

Tony-
the water is absolutely higher since Sandy went through. Not even a question, I have finger docks under water at high tide that were never before and many of the Village of Babylon bulkhead mounted signs are under water at high tide when they were not before. The question is only whether the breach exacerbates this or not. I certainly don't know.
The water is absolutely cleaner than it has been in decades, so that is a plus for sure.

Carl- Spot on. In the case of another Sandy event, where everything goes against us, well it will be even uglier than last time.

[bob lico]

I will not get into the lawyer situation ,in short my son was single at the time (about 10 yeats ago) and wanted to buy a house about to go into foreclosure we were dueing some very intricate electrical for some lawyer in his 4 million dollar beautiful home. My son ask him to do this extreme closing with 4 lawyers and the bank ----- he laught ok it is for free or 600 a hour well little did we know he was the dream team of ny. So he Clean house and sent the other home with thete tail between thete legs and show up in shorts and golf shirt. So anthony did his thing and the story goes on.the new F Lee Baily minc/ rosenberg only muti million and above. Back to subject the high tide is higher and low tide is lower by up to 6" in river. Tony i guess you can look at any typical inlet in the world and common sense would prevail fire island is differant with no jetties and a complely open area to the ocean facing south we have the normal fall hurricane roaring in from south,southwest direction if it hits the inlet at high time the water cannot flow out as normal and we get that surge coming inthe inlet adding to the high tide .the storm surge over low point on fire island adds to this.i cannot say how the breach will effect us during a hurricane it would only be speculation at best.the feds sent a research team to evaluate this week.

[Tony Meola]

Bob

Don't believe the reasearch team. The Corp of Engineers studied Barnegat Inlet until they were Blue in the face. So they said they can fix it. They corrected some of it. So it is not always quite as hair raising going in and out as it used to be. But they almost destroyed the back bay area and the sedge Islands. Increased the flow of water so much it started to undermine the light house, then it was erroding the sedge islands, the main breeding ground from a lot of the fish we catch. They had to install Geo Tubes to protect the sedge islands and lay rock at the base of the light house in about 30 feet of water to stop the erosion.

Just that change increased the water height way back in our lagoon. We went from a 6 inch rise and fall to about a foot and half. We are about a mile up the creek and about 7 miles from the inlet.

These guys have no idea what they are doing when it comes to Mother Nature.

[bob lico]

Tony Due to past performace on long island i agree 100% . When the resident whom actually live on or near the bay " save the great south bay group"feel they are going the wrong way in comes the Calvary-------- Minc/ rosenberg Ave.of America NYC. We will not stand idled as idiots destroy mother nature like florida Hutchinson island .

[Carl]

Years and years of studies done by the Army Corps of Engineers in my old area on how to control Flooding...

A wall was proposed to be built along the beach front and stop when it hit the Federal Park a 1/4 mile or so down the beach...behind the beach is all low lying wetlands.

I had sat in on a few meeting about this years ago and inquired how does the wall stop a Tidal Surge when it stops right over there....rising water will just go around and flood our area anyway. Its the Tidal surges that kill us...

I'd get stares...
I'd get- but the wall will stop the waves from breaking thru the berm...


...year went on, studies continued.

Sandy hit...

They then built that wall along the beachfront to my old community. They stopped to go over the outlet of the Tidal Creek and the wall continued down the beach maybe a 1/4 to were the national Park starts and the wall stops.

Since I have been out of that area..the place has flooded several times...not real bad, a foot or two of water in the streets and we haven't even had a storm worth mentioning.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

Tony,

Over in Ocean Beach III the water is about 2 feet higher than it was in the 70's. We used to have a two level dock, but the lower level would now be under water.

Early level


Later dock


1950's level

That's me giving my parents a ride in my first boat.

Joe

[PeterPalmieri]

I have a simple thought process on this. The coast line is alive and mother nature is going to do what it wants. If you want to live close or on the water do it at your own risk, when man makes an attempt to alter it they usually fail.

10 years ago I lived close to the water in a co-op we had 5 feet of water in the basement, flooded streets etc. I could have bought a house built on a slab, canal front built 4 or 5 feet above the normal high tide line. I chose to live on higher ground, a bit inland and access the water with a boat.

Some idiot bought that house and our tax dollars paid for him to fix it after Sandy (maybe he wasn't that dumb), when it was an obvious when not if scenario. I have a hard time having sympathy for those effected by higher water. Others have a more practical attitude and realize the risks a deal with them with a smile. What I really can't understand is guy that lives across the street from someone who has waterfront property all the risk no reward.

[Tony Meola]

Joe

I bet that extra 2 feet came in when they fixed that inlet. That is when we say the change. Then once that pile of sand they had washed away, the full flow can now rush in. I know at the bay and on Forked River the tide level changed by at least two feet.

The bay used to be loaded with Brant. Hardly see them any more. The northern part of the bay was fresh water at one time. The Brant used to feed up there in the Fresh water. Then some genius got the idea of building the Point Pleasant Canal because he did not want to trek an hour to go out Barnegat. They changed the whole dynamics of the wildlife and the bay.

Think about this, if there were no Canal there would not have been a breach in the Island at Mantaloken since that would have been all part of the mainland. I bet it would have meant less of a tidal surge in the bay, an little to no flooding back in the bay area. Including up by you.

Peter

I agree, why live across the street from the water and get the flooding. During Sandy, the homes on our lagoon were good. I sit at a base of 7 feet with the first floor of the house at 9. I needed at least another 2 feet of rise to get water in the crawl space and 3 to the garage. That means 5 to impact the house. That would have been a 17 foot surge on the Ocean. Now the Houses at the end of and across the road, not on the water, they are lower than we are so they got hammered. Water ran down the street into their living rooms.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

Pt. Pleasant Canal history.

http://mysite.verizon.net/ppbhistory/time_canal.htm

Manasquan Inlet history.

http://mysite.verizon.net/ppbhistory/time_inlet.htm

[Joseph Fikentscher]

Black Friday 1938 Manasquan Inlet. Youtube.

[Tommy]

Awesome and scary video, Joseph; thanks for posting. Watching those boats broach reminded me of quite a few jams I found myself in over the years. Without the power and prop-bite that we have today to ride the trough or the back of the wave in, I don't think I would have tried that inlet that day. How far would they have had to go to enter through another inlet (assuming the next inlet would be less treacherous)?

[Tony Meola]

Joe

I always hated going through that Canal. In the early 70's before we bought the Bert, we had an old Zoebel Sea Fox. Climbing some of those troughs when the tide was rushing,under the route 88 bridge used to bring her to stand still at full throttle.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

Tony, I always thought the canal was dangerous but fun. Took pride in going through. Mostly fished out of Manasquan so it was a necessity. Only trouble I ever had was when a 41 Hatteras tried to share the Rt.88 bridge with me. I had the tide but he didn't care. Took a ton of water over the side of my 23 Formula. He pushed a huge wake. Damn near hit the side.

Tommy, the next safe entrance to calm waters would have been Sandy Hook at that time. My father had to do that one time in the 50's. About 30 miles to the north.

[bob lico]

http://www.onthewater.com/assets/BE1.jpg

You just cannot take inlets for granted ! You need a 31bertram. When going get tough 6 to 9' in inlet today