bertram31.com

Does anybody know of a board member that lives in Connecticut? We are to the point where we are starting to look for power for the boat; we have a line here in CA on a set of new Cummins reman 220B with 63A gears. I think this package will be under powered for the boat I am building. I know of a set of 260B with 220A gears. This will give me the power I need and a bit stronger gear set. I tend to be a little rough on my boats and still have that need for speed. The Engines are located in SHELTON CT and I was looking for someone to view them before I make an offer. Thanks Joe

75 miles from me. If no one else is closer, I'll go.

Thanks Mike, lets see if he takes my offer. I bet there is a member close. The engines are out of a 31 bertram with 300 hours. I wonder if it's a board members boat?

Joe

I talked to the broker( mechanic )of the motors prior to buying my 250 cummins
Never got to far with them
He did say he was willing to sell all the struts shafts and props
All for 32000 but I never negotiated with them.
They were the motors I was going to go for if the motors that I looked at were not good.

I Asked why the replacement and he said the owner wanted more speed ,
But how much more speed can be gained with larger motors 315?

Spencer

spencer sent you a PM thanks Joe

Joe

Seriously price out the 270 remans. That is what I put in mine. I purchased them in 20008. Engines & ZF Transmissions was around 38. If you need to cruise faster than 19 knots you will want to go to the 270's.

Spencer,
The surveys that I've done on the 31's with different power plants have varied between 5 and 8 knots depending on which power. Here are examples of some of my findings, all the boats were in different stages from total rebuilds to just engine swap outs. Speeds are in Knots.

1. 1961 Express Cruiser Hull 186 (MY Boat) Old power 1980 T-440 FWC Chrysler with Velevet drive 72 series 1:1:1 Trannies, 1-1/4" shafts low profile struts Cruise at 3000RPM 19knots WOT4400 29 knots fuel burn 60GPH@WOT.
New power T- 454 7.4 L Mercruisers FWC with throttle bodied fuel injection with Hurth1:5:1 8 degree down angle trannies with 1-1/4" shafts and low profile struts. Cruise @ 2900RPM 25knots WOT 4400@ 38 knots fuel burn 26GPH@WOT. Dry boat, out of the water for 8 years removed 36 years of old bottom paint, 3 blade 17x19 props. Info taken from onboard GPS 951X.

2. 1966 Express Cruiser Hull 563 old power T 454 Mercruisers carbed no data available, wet boat heavy bottom paint build-up. Lots of fuel burn40 to 60 per hour. Full tower Window shaker AC. No gen.
New power 2003 Yanmar 240 FWC LHA STE 4 cyl diesels Hurth 630A 2:0:1
1-3/8" shafts 4 blade 19x22 props boat still wet and heavey bottom paint build-up. Cruise 2500 rpms 16 knots WOT@3560rpms 27 knots, Fuel burn not available.

3.1973 Sport fish converted to FBC Hull 1321 old power T- 454 350 HP FWC Mercruisers carbed with Velvet Drive 1:52:1 1-3/8" shafts 3 blade 17x19 props. Cruise 2900@19 knots WOT 4400@ 29 knots, Fuel burn 40 to 60 gph cruise and wot. Vessel redone in 2008, no tower, gen set & AC.
New power Reconditioned Cummins 5.9B 250hp ZF 220A 1:53:1 trannies with 1-3/8" 20x23 4 blade props. Cruise@2100 @20knots WOT @ 2600@ 29 knots. Fuel burn NA.

4. 1973 FBC Hull 1173 original power T-454 Mercruiser 350 hp with 1:5:1 Velvet drive trannies, 1-3/8" shafts with 3 blade 17x19 props, No speed or fuel burn available, total redo by Capt Pat ( Buddy Boy).
New Yanmar 6 LYA-UTE 315 hp diesels with Hurth 630A 2:0:1 with 1-1/2" shafts 4 blade 20x23 props. Cruise 2500@ 22.5knots WOT 3500@ 32knots, fuel burn 2500 rpms@ 7.0 gph, WOT 3500rpms @ 16.0 gph.

5. 1975 FBC Hull 1477with Mercruiser T-454 350 hp velvet drive 1:5:1 trannies 1-3/8" shafts and 3 blade 17x19 props, no speed or fuel burn available. No tower, no AC, no generator.
New power Cummins 6BTA 5.9 250 hp with Hurth 630A 1:5:1 trannies with 1-3/8" shafts 21x22 3blade props. Cruise 2000@21knots WOT 2700@26 knots No fuel burn available.

I hope this helps you decide on which power plant to install, you might want to look into the Styer diesels, they are expensive but you don't have to change out your shafts and struts. Good luck
Pete

I live in Connecticut -- sorry I wasn't able to be online -- had two deaths in the family this week.

I can take a look if you like -- I'm no mechanic, but I did have Volvo diesels in my B31 and have a fair idea of what is well maintained and what is rusted old iron.

Tom

To help you out on Pete's numbers, my 1975 FBC came through with 454 Merc 350 HP, 1 3/8 shafts. 18/19 props. Cruise at 3000 RPM's 19 knots burn 25 gals hr. I don't have the speed at top end.


With 270 Cummins, 1 1/2 shafts, 20X23 slight cup DQX props, @2200 RPM 22 knots, 2400 RPM's @ 24.5 knots and wide open @ 2650 RPM's top end not quite 30 knots. I have no tower so we run light.

I estimate at cruise we are burning about 15 gallons an hour. Sorry no flow meters yet.

My 72 FBC with 6BTA 250s (CPL 1247) running 1.53 ZFs and 21x22 three blade nibrals with no cup tops out at 2650 rpm and about 26.5 kts and cruises at 2400 rpm right at 24 kts. With that gear and prop set up the speed & rpm are linear from about 1800 rpm (gives 18 kts) right up to WOT. 2400 is the sweet spot, total burn there for both engines 16 gph.

The 250, 260, & 270 are basically the same with minor tweaks on the injector pumps. The HUGE advantage to them is the fresh water cooled aftercooler vs. the sea water cooled ones on the 300+ hp 6BTAs. Zero maintaince vs. annual PITA disassembly of the aftercoolers. My motors were built in November, 1989 and the aftercoolers have never been off the motors. I've only had to remove and acid clean the HEs once.

The downside is you are cooling the superheated compressed air exiting the turbo with 185 degree antifreeze vs. 75 degree sea water so its not as efficient. But 250-270 hp a side in a B31 is plenty.

UV

spencer that is quite a stiff price for those cummins and shaft i am sure you could do much better then that.look on the board at boat diesel .com they are there all the time.i would tend to go along with tony /vic roy that is new 270hp re-man from cummins is a good choice.i have 315hp remans with other installment modifications , i run 34knt. at 2900rpm wot and high cruise (water permitting) 29knt. penny pinching fuel economy cruise at 25knt. burning 2mpg. boat is very heavy with chines 1" under water at stern.i have porcelain head,corian counters and Ipe/teak interior along with enclosed tower,gen ,holding tank,cooking facilities,gas bb-q ,231 fuel tank,water heater, 6man offshore life raft,at least 13,700 lbs.

Has anyone checked out the 300hp cummins on boat diesel 19k in Peekskill?

Unfortunately I'm not ready yet.

Bob,

I already have mine, went with 250's , the motors in question are for Joe E. with the major rehab that he is doing with his bertram 31

I however did talk with tony when I was considering purchasing the 270recons, and they were about 42000 with trannies gauges and harness.


His last set sold of 270 and said it would be cheaper to get 370 cummins recons for less cost than the 270? guess supply and demand.

spencer wrote:Bob,

I already have mine, went with 250's , the motors in question are for Joe E. with the major rehab that he is doing with his bertram 31I however did talk with tony when I was considering purchasing the 270recons, and they were about 42000 with trannies gauges and harness. His last set sold of 270 and said it would be cheaper to get 370 cummins recons for less cost than the 270? guess supply and demand.

Spencer

Are you sure? If you look at my 2008 number and figure at a minimum 3% price increase each year for 4 years, that would get you to around $42,000. Figure that same 3% would have to apply to the 370's unless Cummins is trying to dump them on the market, then they should still be more than the 270's especially since they were more expensive back in 2008. I priced out the 315 Remans and that would have added $6,000 to the cost.

Hey gang, sorry on vacation with the family so not much time to look at the board. I'm moving foward with the 260B engines. I will know tomorrow if my offer of is accepted but I'm pretty sure we will strike a deal. 32 grand is a good price. I can get 220B with 63a grears for 16500 each ready to install. Then I would need shafts, props, etc.... With the 260B package I will get everything, props, struts, shafts, engines, 220A grears etc... I have been looking on boat diesel for about a year. One thing with most of those engines on boat diesel is that's all your getting just the engine, no riser, wiring, gages, engine mounts or fly wheel and most are rebuilt by an unauthorized cummins mechanic unless your buying a used set. The 315's remans are 19500 each with out gears. I spoke with the guy from NY just engines and gears with that sale. Another FYI is cummins is not going to continue to produce the 270 any more. The 220 is a great engine, I just want that little extra HP.
TAIL HOOK TOM. if it's not to much trouble would you be able to view the engines and be a go between? I will compensate you for your time.
Also has anybody used or know of a shipper they trust
Thanks for all the input and help. I was close to pulling the trigger on the 220B but after reading your post and a bit more research changed my mind. Thanks Joe.

Joe:

No need to compensate me for my time -- I'd be happy to do it. Just pm me the particulars and I'll do what I can. Again, I am not a mechanic, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

Tom

Hey Guys:

Joe just pmd me the information and it turns out the engines are actually located in Cos Cob -- which is exactly the opposite end of the state (yeah, I know CT is tiny, but it is 100+ miles for me).

Is there anyone closer?

Tom

Hello,
I am realtively new meber to this site but have enjoyed learning from the kowledge shared amongst the members. I have had some great conversations with Cpt. Patrick and Marlin regarding B31 do's and dont's.

The motors Joe is refering to are located about 30 miles east of New York City just over the Ct. border. My shop is directly between exits 4 and 5 off I-95 directly under the I-95 bridge - very easy to find.

I am also in the early stages of refurbishing my'82 31 FB. I would welcome any member that would like to visit, talk shop and enjoy a cold beverage.

Rick

Pretty close to me.....

If you are able to swing by mike that would be great. Like I told Tom I will compensate you from your time and fuel. I talked to Rick on the phone and he sounds like a great guy. I'm looking for some pics and general condition of the engines. Thanks Joe

Will do.

Thank you

I will be driving by there on Tuesday 4/15 on my way to Sikorsky. I can stop by on my way back in the afternoon (about 4:00) if no one has stopped to have a look.

Was unable to make this happen over the weekend. Unless someone is passing by this week, I will make sure to do it on Saturday.

Sorry about that.....

I think I can be there tomorrow around 11:00 AM, if that works.

No problem mike.
Jspiezio, Thanks That Would be great.
I will PM you the informaton.

Thanks Joe

Went and looked the engines today. Spent about an hour there. Engines are very clean, i will text Joe a few shots I took, as well as serial #s etc.

These came out of a B31 FBC, very clean looking.

They are being replaced with Iveco 370hp engines, which actually have a smaller envelope. We shall see how those puppies push her along.