Hello All,
I am new to the Bertram 31 site. I find it helpful for my questions. However I have a few more.
I looking to buy a 1967 Bertram. The boat has not moved in about two years. The engins 454's have been started twice a week and have less than 200 hrs on both. They were replaced just before the present owner got sicked. The bottom was painted and has been cleaned on a regular basis since the boat stopped being used. The interior is old but clean. Will need to be replaced soon.
My questions are:
With two big block engines and Borg transmissions how much gas does it burn? I do not believe the present owner when he told me 15 gph at cruising speed. I figured it would be more like 25 to 30 gph.
How hard the the conversion to desiel power?
I was told that there were no blisters on the bottom and I will pull the boat before I buy it but do older Bertram have a tendancey to get blisters?
The deck in the bow seems to be a little weak, is the a common problem?
The restore the cabin, are there part available, or is it hard to find parts? I would like to use original but after market are ok.
What would a fair market price for this boat be. I do not have any pictures right now but I am just lookig for a ball park figure.
Thanks guys for any info and I hope to be part of the Bertram Family soon!
If I do become part of the Bertram family I will have a 20 foot Sharock for sale if anyone is interested.
Thanks for the help,
Mike
1967 31 Bertram Questions
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
-
Day Tripper
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Nov 15th, '06, 08:29
- Location: North Palm Beach, Fl
1967 31 Bertram Questions
Tight Lines!!
Mike,
Welcome.
Big block burn can vary quite a bit. It depends on whether you decide to open the secondaries or not.
15gph burn without the secondaries opening is reasonable.
If they are throttle body or mpi engines then even better.
Crusing speed is an arbitrary figure. Some like to cruise at 22kts others like 28kts.
As far as how hard is a diesel conversion? Call and come by the shop at New Port Cove. I got one in there now and you can see how involved it is.
622-1736
Russ P just bought a gas 31 not too long ago for 35k, a good price.
Unless one is trashed and not running or needs a whole lot of work, you'll have a hard time finding one for less.
There is the occasional seller doesn't know what he has but an old boat and the buyer does.
Most everybody who redoes a cabin, either customizes it to their liking or puts in an interior kit.
If you intend to run the boat with gas, make sure you run it hard on sea trial. Low hours don't mean much on gas engines that have sat and starting at the dock don't do a whole lot except keep them from freezing up.
One thing to look at is pull a hatch on the back deck and check the condition of the support system.
Also on the support between the engine boxes and around the bottom of the door. Common places to rot.
Welcome.
Big block burn can vary quite a bit. It depends on whether you decide to open the secondaries or not.
15gph burn without the secondaries opening is reasonable.
If they are throttle body or mpi engines then even better.
Crusing speed is an arbitrary figure. Some like to cruise at 22kts others like 28kts.
As far as how hard is a diesel conversion? Call and come by the shop at New Port Cove. I got one in there now and you can see how involved it is.
622-1736
Russ P just bought a gas 31 not too long ago for 35k, a good price.
Unless one is trashed and not running or needs a whole lot of work, you'll have a hard time finding one for less.
There is the occasional seller doesn't know what he has but an old boat and the buyer does.
Most everybody who redoes a cabin, either customizes it to their liking or puts in an interior kit.
If you intend to run the boat with gas, make sure you run it hard on sea trial. Low hours don't mean much on gas engines that have sat and starting at the dock don't do a whole lot except keep them from freezing up.
One thing to look at is pull a hatch on the back deck and check the condition of the support system.
Also on the support between the engine boxes and around the bottom of the door. Common places to rot.
I have 454s in my '69 FBC, and I figure that I burn roughly 22-24 gph at 20-21.5 knots cruise (2850 -3000 rpms). Harv on this site has a Bahia Mar with 454s with Floscans, and I think he told me he burns about 22 gph at 3000 rpm cruise. I don't have/want floscans--I don't need to be constantly reminded of how much fuel I'm burning. From talking to other guys, our fuel burn seems typical for 454s. Newer EFIs may do better, but not that much. Gassers are great for coastal/inshore, but for offshore canyon runs, are expensive and lack the needed range--at least here in the mid-Atlantic. Oh yeah, if you run the 454s with the secondaries open, the fuel burn skyrockets.
I don't think that blisters are common, but a somewhat flexible foredeck is--they were just built that way. The interior, as well as the whole boat, can be just about anything you want it to be. Look at some of the pics. of B31s, and you'll see alot a variations from the original.
Diesel conversion, again, can be what you want. I got guesstimates from repower guys of $55K-$65K a few years ago, and it hasn't gotten cheaper. I think you'd need to plan on engines, gears, shafts, props, strut bore (maybe), fuel tank cleaning/mods, engine beds, guages, wiring, exhaust, colling water intakes--and other stuff I'm sure I'm missing.
As for value, I have no real idea in today's market. Bruce may be right, but from what I understand, twin big block boats are simply not selling. I talked to a broker this fall and asked him how things were going. He said he was selling boats--buyers were making lowball offers, and if sellers wanted to sell, they were taking them. If it were me, and I had the cash, I'd buy a B31 with fresh diesels if that's the way you want it--it'll cost you way more to do it yourself.
John F.
I don't think that blisters are common, but a somewhat flexible foredeck is--they were just built that way. The interior, as well as the whole boat, can be just about anything you want it to be. Look at some of the pics. of B31s, and you'll see alot a variations from the original.
Diesel conversion, again, can be what you want. I got guesstimates from repower guys of $55K-$65K a few years ago, and it hasn't gotten cheaper. I think you'd need to plan on engines, gears, shafts, props, strut bore (maybe), fuel tank cleaning/mods, engine beds, guages, wiring, exhaust, colling water intakes--and other stuff I'm sure I'm missing.
As for value, I have no real idea in today's market. Bruce may be right, but from what I understand, twin big block boats are simply not selling. I talked to a broker this fall and asked him how things were going. He said he was selling boats--buyers were making lowball offers, and if sellers wanted to sell, they were taking them. If it were me, and I had the cash, I'd buy a B31 with fresh diesels if that's the way you want it--it'll cost you way more to do it yourself.
John F.
Before we yanked the 454's we would burn around 100 gallons on a off shore trip proably around 25 to 30 gals P/Hr. A trip to West End Bahamas From Stuart Fl, cost $804.00 @ 4.50 P/Gal and it's a 70 mile trip.
If you buy the boat right and are handy It's not a real big deal to rebuild her, you'll get all the help you need right hear. if you need someone to look at it before purchase give me a call 772 485 5485 and Pete Fallon could proably do a complete survey for insurance. Believe me he will let you know what you have without pulling any punches.
There is no graeter pleasure than clearing the inlet in 6 footers knowing you have a 31 under you.
Good luck,
RussP
Jensen Beach
If you buy the boat right and are handy It's not a real big deal to rebuild her, you'll get all the help you need right hear. if you need someone to look at it before purchase give me a call 772 485 5485 and Pete Fallon could proably do a complete survey for insurance. Believe me he will let you know what you have without pulling any punches.
There is no graeter pleasure than clearing the inlet in 6 footers knowing you have a 31 under you.
Good luck,
RussP
Jensen Beach
KAHUNA 1963 Sportfish
I have 440's and at a slow cruise I can burn as little as 18gph, 1600-1700rpm muttling along at 15-16 mph. Fine if trying to extend a short ride.
A realistic burn is much closer to what is being said, 22-24gph gives a decent cruise of 19-20mph @ 2850-2900rpm. Secondaries open and all bets are off as the floscan gets pinned at 24gph on each engine.
Pricing depends on the model, condition and power. Gassers by me, I have seen go for as little as 25,000 for an Express and as high as 60,000 for a flybridge model.
Conversion to Diesel, is it hard, maybe not the question. Come up with the cash and someone can do it for you, not all that hard then. If it is a DIY project, then I would say the project is quite involved as your not just yanking out gassers and dumping in Diesel powerplants. But it is do-able provided you have the skills and correct information available. Only you can answer that.
A realistic burn is much closer to what is being said, 22-24gph gives a decent cruise of 19-20mph @ 2850-2900rpm. Secondaries open and all bets are off as the floscan gets pinned at 24gph on each engine.
Pricing depends on the model, condition and power. Gassers by me, I have seen go for as little as 25,000 for an Express and as high as 60,000 for a flybridge model.
Conversion to Diesel, is it hard, maybe not the question. Come up with the cash and someone can do it for you, not all that hard then. If it is a DIY project, then I would say the project is quite involved as your not just yanking out gassers and dumping in Diesel powerplants. But it is do-able provided you have the skills and correct information available. Only you can answer that.
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John Jackson
- Senior Member
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Jul 19th, '06, 22:39
- Location: Point Pleasant Beach, NJ
My experience with 454's was about a statute mile per gallon overall, at the end of the tank. My GPS tracker was on at all times, and I would do the math using my flowscan total for usage when I filled up. So the 1mpg included drifting for fluke and believe it or not waterskiing and whatever else I did. On average, it almost always ended up at 1mpg.
At about 3000 RPMs, which was about 24kts, my flowscan would show about 17 gps per engine. I had 15" props and 1-1 trans.
The front deck is a little bouncy on all of them, I think its normal. If memory serves me, there is one mahogany stringer on each side of the for deck that is glassed in and this allows for a little bounce.
These boats are the ultimate can of worms if you take them apart, especially from the middle back. The plywood turns to mush and there is a lot of plywood. The good news is that once you replace it, the boat is like new and will last if done right at least another 20 years. I have yet to see one that had the deck taken out that did not need lots of work on the bulkheads and deck supports and engine stringers.
A diesel conversion will cost plenty, and you will probably need new from the prop nut to the ignition key to do it right. You would be hard pressed to rebuild the whole thing for under 150k. And once you dig in, you will probably wind up doing the whole thing.
Of course a lot has to do with the condition of what you are buying.
To me, there is no better new boat that you can get in the 200g range. And if you do it right, you will have a brand new boat when done.
And she'll be a looker.
Unless you have a real passion for doing a lot of work and taking at least a year to do it, buy one that was already redone. It will cost half as much. Or, buy one that is in fair condition and use it for a few years.
In my opinion, which will be controversial (the best opinions always are) the only reason to get diesel is for range to go off shore. Some people talk about how diesels are safer, but how many blow up when the operator checks the bilges and runs the blowers?
The boat will perform magnificently with 454's, will sound sweet and soothing and won't stink or smoke or make you deaf.
Nevertheless, for some like me, there is no greater beginning than a pair of diesels firing up in the predawn. It's all personal.
At about 3000 RPMs, which was about 24kts, my flowscan would show about 17 gps per engine. I had 15" props and 1-1 trans.
The front deck is a little bouncy on all of them, I think its normal. If memory serves me, there is one mahogany stringer on each side of the for deck that is glassed in and this allows for a little bounce.
These boats are the ultimate can of worms if you take them apart, especially from the middle back. The plywood turns to mush and there is a lot of plywood. The good news is that once you replace it, the boat is like new and will last if done right at least another 20 years. I have yet to see one that had the deck taken out that did not need lots of work on the bulkheads and deck supports and engine stringers.
A diesel conversion will cost plenty, and you will probably need new from the prop nut to the ignition key to do it right. You would be hard pressed to rebuild the whole thing for under 150k. And once you dig in, you will probably wind up doing the whole thing.
Of course a lot has to do with the condition of what you are buying.
To me, there is no better new boat that you can get in the 200g range. And if you do it right, you will have a brand new boat when done.
And she'll be a looker.
Unless you have a real passion for doing a lot of work and taking at least a year to do it, buy one that was already redone. It will cost half as much. Or, buy one that is in fair condition and use it for a few years.
In my opinion, which will be controversial (the best opinions always are) the only reason to get diesel is for range to go off shore. Some people talk about how diesels are safer, but how many blow up when the operator checks the bilges and runs the blowers?
The boat will perform magnificently with 454's, will sound sweet and soothing and won't stink or smoke or make you deaf.
Nevertheless, for some like me, there is no greater beginning than a pair of diesels firing up in the predawn. It's all personal.
My boat is for sale. It's a 65 S/F with 454 Crusaders. It's 50 to 75 percent restored, with new teak decks covering a 235 gal alum tank with 5" exhaust, all ready for a diesel conversion. 1 3/8" shafts, Capt Patrick's rudders and many more upgrades. It's on Kimpa Yacht Sales, as well as Yachtworld. "MOJO" Check it out!
Mitch
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steve miller
- Senior Member
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 21:40
- Location: block Island R.I.
- Contact:
Dug,
You know how it is.....sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and sell something in order to hold it all together. Since I'm selling mine, I'm really looking forward to fishing on YOURS! Heh. BTW, is the work on your boat coming along ok?
Mike,
Good luck buying a Bertram 31- best boat ever built? Many of us here on this site think so. I know I have left the dock headed out overnight at the canyons when many larger boats remained fastened to the dock because it was blowing northeast 20 to 25 kts! One excellent reason to own a B31.
If you plan on using your boat a lot, or want to make long trips, diesel power is a great idea. If your idea of a fun weekend is at the yacht club with the cocktail flag raised, well then, who cares? The important thing is that you own a B31.
My own boat is also for sale, very regrettably and reluctantly. She is powered by Yanmar 230s with 1500 hours. Excellent electronics, liferaft, E.P.I.R.B., brand new Awlgrip on the hull. 25 kts cruise @ 15 gph or less. The interior is horrible, and needs to be redone. $56 K.
On Yachtworld yw#74586-625230
Best of luck to you whatever it is you end up with. Though you may come to this site for advice, you will surely end up with some good friends, and probably some great memories too.
B.R.
Steve Miller
You know how it is.....sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and sell something in order to hold it all together. Since I'm selling mine, I'm really looking forward to fishing on YOURS! Heh. BTW, is the work on your boat coming along ok?
Mike,
Good luck buying a Bertram 31- best boat ever built? Many of us here on this site think so. I know I have left the dock headed out overnight at the canyons when many larger boats remained fastened to the dock because it was blowing northeast 20 to 25 kts! One excellent reason to own a B31.
If you plan on using your boat a lot, or want to make long trips, diesel power is a great idea. If your idea of a fun weekend is at the yacht club with the cocktail flag raised, well then, who cares? The important thing is that you own a B31.
My own boat is also for sale, very regrettably and reluctantly. She is powered by Yanmar 230s with 1500 hours. Excellent electronics, liferaft, E.P.I.R.B., brand new Awlgrip on the hull. 25 kts cruise @ 15 gph or less. The interior is horrible, and needs to be redone. $56 K.
On Yachtworld yw#74586-625230
Best of luck to you whatever it is you end up with. Though you may come to this site for advice, you will surely end up with some good friends, and probably some great memories too.
B.R.
Steve Miller
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