bertram31.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... OTORS:1123

This looks like a pretty good deal... all thoughts are welcome.

Looks like a good deal, however those new engines put in around 2004 have 200 hours worth of ethanol out of a fiberglass tank. First hand experience says it doesn't take that long to ruin the motors.

The pictures on the listing are from when that boat was for sale at whitewater boats in sayville. I do believe there was an older thread and guys here knew the boat.

I am almost certain the guy that bought the boat is the same person I bought my boat from. He was planning on redoing the interior this season, sounds like he has a change in plans. If your serious about buying it get in touch he's a good guy and will certainly be square with you.

Pooka has been around the Southshore of LI for decades. Belonged to a local high school football coach, then Bob Antolini, than bounced around a bit.

The engines do run well, and according to Whitewater there were no problems with the tank. Yet.

Mechanics were all pretty sound when I looked at her for someone on this board.

The tank needs to go, period, and the interior is a hodge podge- it is an open cabin SF with an amateurish bulkhead installed.
Usable? yes.
Perfect? no.

$15,000 grand really isn't a bad price for the boat if you are willing to pay for the new tank. Everything else is just cosmetic.

It was in Hampton Bays for sale for 39,ooo.$ this past winter.

I'm sure there's a thread somewhere that will explain the tank procedure. Can someone either point me to it or explain the process (time, expense)? Thanks.

moguls2go wrote:I'm sure there's a thread somewhere that will explain the tank procedure. Can someone either point me to it or explain the process (time, expense)? Thanks.

Pull Deck out, Remove Rear Bulkhead, cut away foam from around tank, cut tabbing to stringers, if present, Rig up a come-along, Use a Jack from Stringer to Tank Flange and some wedges between tank and hull and start putting pressure on the tank till she pops loose.

Remove tank, clean, give tank to tank maker along with several thousand dollars and reverse the process.

Figure a day to remove, a day to clean and a day to install. Then a day to tidy up loose ends.

Or give to yard and fork over a couple grand more.

Sim has the basic procedure down, and my new 230 gall. aluminum epoxy coated tank with 3 pick-ups/fills was just under $2K. It too me alot to clean up and prep for install than one day though. Then again, I ground and painted the bilge area, made and installed a new rear bulkhead, and made an installed all new deck supports. It the "while I'm in there" stuff that kills you. Pretty easy, but time consuming job.

Jspiezio,
You have been around the south shore a long time. Bob called the boat "Weasel" and sold it to Celeste in the early 70,s when he built a Ridgeway that was a Merritt look alike. The buyer gave his B25 to his son, changed the name to "Pooka" and kept it until the early 80's at which time he moved to a B35. If my memory serves me, I think it started as a Chrysler powered sportfish that later added a bulkhead. It is hard to believe that these boats are still fully functional after all these years.
Harry

Harry Woods wrote:Jspiezio,
You have been around the south shore a long time. Bob called the boat "Weasel" and sold it to Celeste in the early 70,s when he built a Ridgeway that was a Merritt look alike. The buyer gave his B25 to his son, changed the name to "Pooka" and kept it until the early 80's at which time he moved to a B35. If my memory serves me, I think it started as a Chrysler powered sportfish that later added a bulkhead. It is hard to believe that these boats are still fully functional after all these years.
Harry

Right- Celeste renamed her Pooka and she was fast. We ran a SF with those same 440s at the time and would race once in a while for kicks.

That Ridgeway was back with new owners, rechristened as Weasel, the last few years. I haven't seen her this year. Bob sold his 64 Garlington three years ago and bought a Viking express who is now Weasel.

That boat ain't going for 15k.
It's got a reserve with a buy now of 27 k of which the reserve is always about the same price as the buy now.

Even at 27k it seems like a good price if the motors don't have ethanol issues. 15k would seem like a steal.

She looks nice from the outside. I know the topic has been discussed in general at great length, but the seller's comment "....still has FG fuel tank with no problems yet" seems problematic at best. Everyone agress that the FG tank must go if the boat is to remain gas-powered. My question is threefold: 1) is there a process/test to determine for certain that Ethynol has NEVER been introduced into the tank; and 2), if the tank has been contaminated at some point by E, is there a way to ascertain that engine damage has not begun to occur; and 3), if minimal resin breakdown has occured inside the tank, is there a process to "clean" the engines to avoid future problems? Thanks,

Tommy

Tommy, good questions. I will be interested in hearing the experts. I believe most of the engine hours were put on pre ethanol. The boat has been out of the water and for sale for some time now prior to the current owner.

There is a another B31 in my marina with newer gas motors and a fiberglass tank. The owner put in a temporary tank in the v berth to run the boat until he can find the time and money to redo the tank and replace the old deck. It's a quick fix that can buy some time.

Is that deck removable? I don't see any seams so it may not be three piece. It is a bigger job if you have to R & R a custom deck (like mine)!!

pull a plug......if it looks like it is black epoxy coated....ethanol poisoning. pull the carb and clean separately. take out all the plugs and pour acetone down the intake manifold. turn the engine over till black goop stops coming out of the cylinders. stop using ethanol or change the tanks...period.


just a note....the black goop dosent drip out...it shoots out....prepare for that or your cockpit will look like its been undercoated.

FYI:

I am selling the 31 on Ebay. I bought if from Whitewater marine last November. They went through the engines thoughouly, pumped out both tanks and put fresh fuel since the boat sat for several years, there is also an aluminum auxilary tank that hold 70 gallons. It was running off that tank, but from sitting for several years it got condensation in it and they pumped and cleaned it out, I would remove this tank as well. We ran the engines on the fiberglass tank for 2 hours during sea trials and then I put the boat away for the winter. I pulled all plugs and checked filters for signs opf ethinol issues and din't see anything that bothered me. I would not run the motors on that tank anymore since I did put fresh fuel in it to do the sea trial.

The deck is one piece and would need to be cut to remove tank. I just went through this last fall with another 31 and put in a new tank in that boat as well. It really wasn't terrible. It was $3,000 all in including new hoses.

Kevin, did I see your brother in a nice new Jupiter yesterday?

Hi Guys, I have been on that boat , and the only good thing about that boat is the "model " and the engines.
The list of what to replace on that boat is to big to write down.
It was offerd in november to me for 15 K aswell.

Short list :

engine barrers completely rotten
cockpit floor .. same thing
complete interior , and floor , needs to be replaced.
bridge is horible , all gauges are gone ( throthle and gear are on the left hand side )
paintjob pour

ect ect,

If you are ready for an adventure were you want to go bust on.. go for it !!

Iám sorry for the seller, but I have my duty to warn my Bertram frends.

Gert,

I do not want to argue, but you are completely out of line.

The strigers are definately not rotted, all guages are there, cockpit floor is not rotten, there is some softness in the hatches, not the floor. The rest is true, but I posted that on ebay anyway. Not trying to hide anything, it is a project boat as advertised.

Your boat came out awsome by the way. Very sharp and clean.

By the way which brother, highly unlikely?

I thought it was Michael. But I am probably wrong. Is he a brother or cousin? There are so many of you guys around it is hard to keep straight.

About that boat, the hatches are soft in spots, at least they were when I looked at her, but the deck was solid. I can not speak to the stringers. I will say that the Lessings, Keven included, are well known and well respected in this area. I am not taking sides here but I don't think that he would blatantly misrepresent the condition of the boat.

If all else fails, well then caveat emptor.

It's a 31 Bertram, no matter what.

He is my cousin. I don't know if he has a new boat though? He has a 25 whaler outrage that I know of.

The boat didn't meet the reserve so all bets are off.
The boat dealership, White Water Marine is a first class operation. One of the owners, Captain Anthony is a Bertram guy. He sold his 31 5/6 yrs ago for $85,000. He had to sell to buy the dealership. The boat had just been repowered w/454's and when he took a bunch of us on a boat ride, we flew passed other fishermen that gave a big cheer. It was a rotten day. I see the boat almost every day on the east side of the Brightwaters Canal on the south shore in Islip town. I wrote a story about meeting the Captain at a Bertram dinner party that I sent to Soundings magazine. They didn't like it. They said the format had to be like the Wall Street Journal. I hadn't read the Journal that week. Too bad. I still think it's very funny. If I find it I'll put it up.

At the same party I met Randall.
He liked the Brothers so much that he went home to bring his wife to meet his new friends. As he left, the opinion was that he wasn't coming back. The group was too ruckus! But he did!

On a related matter .. ethanol. I have run my boat for six maybe seven yrs with the fiberglass tank. No trouble! The boat is a '72 Bahia Mar with 427's that were rebuilt from the ground up with 600 hours when I got it. It was built in the winter of 1972 (January) and is one of the first with the 231 gal tank.
So what the secret? Maybe there isn't one. However I put Marvel Mystery oil in the gas, use high proformance plugs and Mobile 1. I use to put the Marvel in the oil but stopped as I switched to Mobil 1.

I have not been on this board for a while. Not that I'm sooo busy. I have stared a new operation that markets home decor products. The website is http://longislandhomedecor.com The website is connected to a charity that I formed and launched last fall. The connection is that for every item bought from "home decor", I will donate $5.00US to the charity. The website is http://womenandchildrenscharity.org

I feel I'm missing something this year. The Greenport rendezous. In past yrs from 2000 to now I never missed one. For three yrs I made both the Northeast and Atlantic City. What a guy!

Guess what? One yr I sailed down the Mississippi on Uncle Vic's boat on the way to Port Eads. What an experience!

O.K. Enough already ....

Hi - regarding your comment on running on the original fiberglass tank of your '72, does the fuel you use contain ethanol?

Is that the year that Bertram changed the resins to ones that turn out are "ethanol safe"?

I'm looking at a '77 bahia mar out this way (reportedly with 222 gal tank) but I am unable to verify if the fiberglass tank is original or replacement (broker has no clue, current owner is MIA, and last known survey says nothing useful). The boat has been used in southern california for at least 10 years, and there has been ethanol in all fuel for at least half that. Wouldn't have problems shown up already if the fueltank were having issues? Is there any way to tell if problems will occur?

I can't seem to find anyone out this way (including surveyors) that can give me a definite yes or no answer.

Sorry for changing the main topic of the thread

You may want to start a new thread as this may be missed.

Farside,

I have a 62 that had a glass tank.

For years and years in my area the marinas would run the Winter blend with up to 10% ethanol. Boat didn't run as well with it...but then neither did any of my vehicles with the Winter Blend so I didn't think much about it.

The year they completely changed over to the Ethanol Blend year round...I went in late, ran the tank down to nothing while fishing, decided to get some fuel and go back out. I took on about 50 gallons of fuel and couldn't get out of my harbor as one motor crapped out. I never put two and two together as nobody else really had the problem...I did tune ups, new filters, 1 micron filters with special element to pull more crap out and the problem just got worse and worse.

I will not go into further details...but I went from running to not running well in minutes just because the ethanol concentration went up high enough to react with tank.

Personally I buy the boat with a budget in mind to change out the tank...just in case. Hopefully you'll be lucky like Capt Dick Dean.

Bertram went to the larger 222 (usuable) tank in the 1972 model year. The original tank will have a typed paper tag glassed into the top of the tank at the rear near the pickup fitting. You may have to scrub the grime off to find it. My 1972 model FBC's tank tag shows the tank was built in March, 1972 and holds 232 gallons and was pressure tested. Starting with the 1972 model year Bertram advertised the tanks as 222 gallons, prior to that it was 170. I converted to diesel in 1991 so have not had an issue.

I don't know when (if ever) the glass formula was changed on the B31 tanks to "ehtanol safe".

UV

Run, do not walk from any Bertram Gas powered boat that has had ethanol in it's tank that long. The only exception would be if you could get it for a price that allowed your budget to take a new tank, two new engines (don't even try to save the old ones), and new fuel lines (fill and vent, too). We all liked to think our boats were the exception...but it will get you. Mine was only a 20, but it cost me over $14,000 to get functional again. That was not counting rebuilding the carburetor 2 times, new fuel pump, changing to electronic ignition, before the ethanol finally glued my valves down.

Thanks for the information. I've been looking at it knowing that the additional expense of changing the tank would be required - was just hoping it wouldn't be.

UV - the current owner painted over the tank (bilgkote is my guess due to everything else in the bilge area being the same color) when they cleaned her up a few years ago, so have been unable to verify any of the tags; including the build tag under v-berth or in anchor locker.

It's a real shame that older gas powered boats have the problems related to ethanol. There are some really well maintained and looked after 31's out there, but the issue with replacing the tank takes a big chunk of money and detracts from potential buyers. Even the one this thread was started about.

The up side is it is a 31. Putting a tank in these boats is worth it. I cannot say the same about many other boats, even boats only half the age of ours.

Another thing to keep in mind, being a 31' Bertram we can get the tank out relatively easy. I say this in terms of tank in other boats where you need to cut up the deck,'remove motors or my favorite...cutting out the side or stern of the boat.

It really stinks we need to pull a tank out that should have lasted a lifetime...but thanks to our politicians and tree buggers it is a reality.

When you are done, you'll have a 31 Bertram, the best boat ever built.

Not all of the glass tanks had the tag glassed into the tank.

On my 75, the tank ID tag was glued to the top of the tank. It has worn off from being open to the weather during the repower. But I can tell you it was marked as 222 gallons and said not for use with Meythanol. Which I believe is the same as the current mix.

Even then they knew...and no one told us...

walterk wrote:Even then they knew...and no one told us...

Walter

If you remember that was also about the time that the Greatest President/Peanut Farmer this country has ever seen ordered alcohol to be added to gas to conserve oil. Of course no one listned to him back then and it died, but we got 18% interest rates.

Given no one is buying houses anyway, I could sure use an interest rate of some sort for my bank account.