bertram31.com

Greetings Gentlemen,

Looked at a B31 Express for sale out here with 453 Detroits. It’s a real “labor of love” (instant divorce kit/project), but I’ve always like the lines of the B31 and she’s calling to me.

We already have a great 23’ boat built for San Diego conditions and will be used as our primary fish killer. What we (Mrs. and I) are looking for is something mainly to cruise around SD Bay and stay the weekends on plus make 2-3 long range (40-60 miles offshore) overnight trips a season. Getting a glorified Clorox bottle built for drinking beer and working on your tan is not an option, it has to built for killing fish. It has to have style.

The main thing I really liked about the Express was that the helm position utilized what I thought was wasted space above the engine boxes. My dad, a retired licensed Chief Engineer, is 72 and has spent pretty much his whole life at sea…well 50 years of it anyways. He’s knees are shot from going up and down steep ladders and working on stuff, so having him go up and down a ladder on a FB would wear him out on the long runs. I fell the protected helm and passenger postion in optimal.

After searching, I still have some questions that maybe you B31 guys could answer:

Weather/seas out here in San Diego is pretty much slick calm in the morning with the wind coming up around 2:00pm just as you start heading home. Then you have 40+ miles of straight to 1/8th following toseas plus some good wind out of the west which means you’re taking a pretty good saltwater shower (over portside) on the ride home.

I see B31s described as wet… how wet? Even in a FB are you taking a shower? The Express offers more protection, should you buy stock in Rain-X and wiperblades?

What do they handle like in a following to 1/8 following sea?

How do they drift? Down swell or in the trough?

At 11’+ the B31 shouldn’t be a roller?

453 Detroits are going to put me at a 16knt cruise? What would you expect for fuel consumption?

Regards,

Allan

one of the best following sea boats ever build. and in a following or 1/4 sea you wont get wet.

my personal feeling is the wet rep is partly due to the fact you can be out there when most others are at the dock. you can always slow down.

Randall is correct - the best following sea boat in any class. They roll when drifting. They are not a wet boat at all, a myth, and as Randall says, we tend to go out when the clorox bottles stay at the dock. Yes, the 4-53s will be slow. At Tropic Star Lodge in Panama most of their 15 B31s have 4-53s and do better than that, say in the 18-19 range, but they run them wide open all the time (no tachs) and they are very light, just day fishing boats. Fuel consumption is the lowest of any engine in common use in a B31, say 8 gph total at curse.

You pretty much can't go wrong with that combo.

UV

No myth, at 17-18knots going into or quartering into seas you will have those wipers working hard. Actually, a real good application of Rain X is better then wipers, two- three applications a season and I'm good.

I have the Express too, fishing shorthanded with this boat is a breeze, although with bad knees it may be beneficial to add a mid-step as those motor boxes start getting real high on busy days.

31's roll like a bastard when drifting, I toss a sea anchor off the bow when drifting in seas, not great, but better.

Can't speak to the 4~53's as I have 440 gassers, but I would buy a 31 with 4-53's at the right price...even looked into a convertion with them...lack of available parts held me back

My only downside of the Express...cruising along at speed in two footers you don't need to slow down as the boat cuts right thru em' but with the helm back and low...it is impossible to see into the troughs of the waves...where wood sits. Around here wood is a problem and because of that I have hit more then my share. I solved that by adding a small towe and drive from there in a good chop,makes a big difference being up a couple feet higher.

Best of luck to you,
Carl

i agree with vic roy that wet boat nonsense was started by a would be surveyor and has stuck with opinions related to a 31 bertram. the boat can be wet if you let it but you can avoid the situation with proper balance . in light of the fact you are a meat hunter that engine will do find ,a little loud but you can and should apply sound down to keep engine noise to a tolerable lever . this is the best boat built when your life is at stake in big seas.--------------do it

The boat (31 Bertram) has saved my life many times. I use it to kill fish 100 to 140 miles offshore. Two and three day trips. Nothing made can carry more and run in big waves at this size. "Best boat ever built"!!!

Alan,
The idea of 31 Bertrams being wet is a crock. I've owned a 31 Express for 33 years, I've got the worst knees in the world, as most of the guys on the board know. I find that the express has a drier ride than the FBC because the windsheild is higher and the express has lower center of gravity and mine runs flatter with low profile struts and it's fast 41.8 mph on GPS at WOT. I've got 454 7.4 L Mercruisers throttle body fuel injected with 1:5:1 8 degree down angle trannies, Cruise at 2900 rpm at 28 mph.
I've never had a problem seeing things between waves. I ran the boat for 100 days a year for 4 years as a charter boat, every afternoon heading back into the sun for 19 miles with 100's of lobster bouys, only chopped up a few, that was because I wasn't paying attention, never hit anything else over the years.
With the 4-53's she's not going to win any races but the fuel savings and burn are really good. Like Vic said they do roll but it's a great following sea boat, set a course and sit back and let her ride. 18 to 20mph with a following sea is a breeze and 2 to 3 chop into a head sea, the faster you go the smoother the ride.
Have a good engine surveyor or a mechanic you trust check the engines and trannies, the parts are getting harder to find for those engines, but they are no brainer engines, keep them oiled and cooled they will last forever. There isn't any differance in the lay out cabin wise between the FBC and the express, same head, galley, dinette and V berth, you just don't have to climb a ladder to the helm. Easy boat to fish by your self and your not stuck up on the bridge by your self in crappy weather.
If the iron is good buy it, you won't regret your purchase.

Pete

Allan,

Not sure how long you've been poking around the site before posting. As a newer member here myself. It is worth noting the guys that have laid out their opinions for you really have years of experience and the respect of everyone on the board.

For fair weather boaters its not a wet boat.

For those that like to fish and cruise in anything over 4' in a head sea without riding the trough up and down like a roller coaster, its wet.

It has neither the length or bow flair to be anything but wet in seas but on the other hand neither does pretty much anything in that size under those conditions.

The heavier the iron, the better the ride.

I loved my B31 but she was relatively wet when it kicked up, and in a quartering chop. B31s have almost no bow flair. Just a great boat though. Get one, you'll love it.

Welcome Alan == my 31 Sportfish was definitely a wet boat -- because of the reasons noted above. Tailhook would leave the dock in 15-20kt winds and run 90-120 miles in search of tuna, while the Clorox bottles stayed tight withhin the pilings sipping their martinis. It is deemed a wet boat because it is built to run through the seas. Yes it will pound a little in a head sea and throw some spray, but if you are going to run that far at 24kts, you better be prepared to move a little water. Back down to 18-20kts and less water moved.

Best Boat Ever Built!!!!!

It sounds as if you have never been out on a Bertram. I would do a sea trial, but bring your chequebook because I bought my first Bertram about 15 minutes after my first ride in one. Completely different beast than any other boat that I have been on even when compared to othe deep V boats of the same size.

Guys,

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it greatly.

The responses to the "wet boat" comments from experienced people (you guys) are reasonable. My definition of wet boat would be our 20' Blackman. You'd have to wear oilskins and a divers mask on the way home from chasing Albacore that for some reason only love crappy weather. Seriously, you'd have water pouring out of the tops of your boots. But you got home.

I can take the speed hit with the 453s. If you can get 2mpg out of those cruising at 16-17knts then I might be inclined to double the number of long trips for the season. My pop is retired anyways, what’s the rush?

I’ve never been out on a B31. My experience fishing on boats bigger than 25’ is pretty limited. No real chance for a sea trial on this express. It’s on the hard about 45 minutes from the water right now. Like a said, she’s a bit of a project, but the price is right if the 453s check out okay. I’ve already spent a few hours going over her checking for rot and making to-do lists. She needs a lot of work but is rock solid where it counts.

Again, thanks for your time.

Tight lines,

Allan

BTW: The 23' I have now.

Allan:

PRETTY boat!

Tom

Thanks Tom... not very hard to figure out why I loves the lines of the B31 so much.

great post by pete fallon and so true. the queen mary was a wet boat when the spray off 40' waves push by 40mph cross wind would wet the the promonade deck .yes every wet boat comment has a "yea but" we are talking about a typical day whereby the bow pushes the water both port and starboard of the bow . when the boat is at proper trim angle the water spray will break about 4' in back of my transom ,needless to say if i had a 30mph crosswind at right angle to my boat the cockpit would get wet, but most other boat would not even leave the dock in the first place .

Don't let anyone kid you, no such thing as a dry boat. Running in the trough in 6 footers, coming home from offshore, it is shower time. Not so bad though. Don't need goggles or a dive mask. My electronics always stayed dry. Go figure.

We never took a ride on one, just new, that back in 1975 there was nothing that would keep up with one. So we just out and out bought it. 36 years later and we still have not looked back. No regrets.

Allan,

Some of my friends on this Board say that the 31 is wet; some of my friends say it isn't. I agree with my friends. As Bob pointed out, it's the crosswind that throws the spray back on you. No crosswind, no problem; big crosswind in a quartering sea, wear your slickers and enjoy the ride! I've fished marlin tournaments on the 65' Hatterascal when spray and green water wrapped up the bridge (which was enclosed, fortunately). You will not be disappointed in the 31; we promise!

Tommy

Well hell... guy selling the express is looking like a pretty shady character so I'm going to have to back off on this one. A B31 is in my future, just not near future.

I'm going to go look at a B28 tomorrow in my area. Where B31s are few and far between, B28s are thick on the ground here. For real short money too. Being in CA we were the first victum of Ethanol fuel so most for sale have had thier tanks replaced.

I've already armed myself with reading every darn thread on here with B 28 in it so I know what to look for guys. Thank you.

Allan-There's a lot to like in a 28, but there's NOTHING like a 31. Keep looking.

The 28 is great boat, best value out there. But like Walter said ,it isn't a 31and the resale won't be there if you decide to empty your pockets on upgrades. For 20k you can get a turnkey 28 and after 30k in upgrades you'll get 20k when you sell her.
By the way the 28 gets 1nmpg, which is almost like an economy car compared to the gas 31s.

Oh yes, prices of B28s out here are in the toilet out here. It's not uncommon to see the same boats for sale for months. On guy started trying to sell his at $47k, now he's asking $24k.

One I looking at tomorrow is in good shape (in pictures), repower on both 5.7 with low hours, poly fuel tank, and he's asking $15k. If it's nice I'll still put the screws to him. Other than good old fashioned sweat equity I don't plan on dumping a lot of cash into it on upgrades.

Allan,
Aside from being in California, I'd say look at Pete Fallon's Express if it is still for sale.

Your last comment about "not dumping much cash into it", I would recommend buying from somone you know and trust. And buy a boat as nice and maintained as you can afford. My Dad always said, "Buying the boat is the cheap part of the equation". If you really like the Express and your criteria sounds like you do, Pete's boat is awesome, and I'm sure it's well maintained.

Shipping to California, not a great thing, but the cost of 1 month in a boat yard and a little maintenance on any other boat will be the same as that shipping fee.

I'll second that on Pete's boat.
I've been on it and its a peach of a 31 and Pete like many here is one hell of a nice guy to deal with.

Allan,

I am also in San Diego and my Bertram 28 is slipped in Marina Village. I have owned this boat for more than 20 years and ran the first 10 years with gas motors and the last 11 with Yanmar 4LHAs. I am also slipped next to Chula, a Bertram 31 SF out of the fist years production run (1961?).
I would be happy to show you my boat and you could see a 28 and 31 setting side by side. I am moderately familiar with the 31 and am intimately familiar with the 28 and all of its good points and bad points.

Please feel free to contact me at

billfuller@san.rr.com

Good luck with your hunt for a Bertram. Once you have one, whether a 28 or a 31, you will never want anything else.

Bill

If you like the lines of the 31, buy a 31.

The 28 is a great boat, but does not have the same resale.

I have a friend who has a mid-80's 28 that he repowered 5-6 years ago with brand new engines and they have very low hours on them. Like 200 ish hours low.

He can't friggin give the boat away... Might be able to get $15,000 for it tops.

Sad.

No Flare and a sharp Entry makes for a Wet Boat, nothing knocks down the spray. Spray goes out and a little breeze blows it back where others the spray is directed downwards. Compare to a Hatteras, Luhrs, Sea-vee Grady etc etc... It's not a bad thing...its just what it is.

I'll stick to my statement...can't see very well into troughs cruising in 2-3 footers at least not till it is too late. Lobster pots with highflyers or even a clorox bottle on a rope for that matter...yeah I can see those. What I am talking about is debris floating low in the water. In my area NYC, seeing several pieces of wood ranging from a 2x4's to dock pilings are the norm. I can expect to see several on any trip in my area. Not sure how much of a problem it is in Florida or where others boat...but here wood and debris IS a problem...just layout the boat attitude when cruising, figure your sightline from the helm on our Express and you will see you can't see as well as if you where up a bit higher like in the FBC or further forward like the Bahia.

I cannot tell you how many times I had my head studing the water in a good 2' chop at speed with my hands on the throttles, came over a wave crest only to see a piece of tree sitting right there in the trough...and it's too late to do anything. Now when it gets sloppy I either bring the speed down or climb up to the tower. Huge differnence, that was my main reason for adding it on. If debris is not prevelent then its a non issue.

One of the reasons, despite the inability to fish alone, that I prefer the bridged B-31. Even in our Eastern LI waters, unmarked lobster pots are strewn all over, especially between Gardiner's Island and the point. On a hard tide they're pulled under and hard to see even from the bridge standing up. I don't know how the lower station guys do it. Maybe luck?

i have to check i don`t track these things anymore but i can get a 28' local for 1000.00 not sure the problem is the boat looks like so many others, as in 30' chris craft and the new generation cannot turn a screwdriver plus the storage factor makes it almost worthless . at OYC there are other problems such unable to finance. against all odds people will give boat away rather then rent dumpster and cut up for parts.

Allan,

I highly recommend accepting Bill Fuller's invitation. His boat is the way a 28 should be and he can tell you what to look for when checking out an older Bertram.

Bruce D.

OK, there is no boat quite like the B31. I loved my B31, just loved that boat. But c'mon, the B28 is a really nice boat. I looked at a few before I bought my B31, and the B28 is a really nice, actually its great compared to other boats in its class--its just not as great as a B31. And Bob, if you find a decent B28 give-away, let me know. I was tempted to ask Dug about his friend's boat--but I'm resisting....

Captn Bruce wrote:Allan,

I highly recommend accepting Bill Fuller's invitation. His boat is the way a 28 should be and he can tell you what to look for when checking out an older Bertram.

Bruce D.

I did. We went down and checked it out yesterday and I was very impressed with his 28. It was also nice seeing a 31 right next to it to compare. I have to say, the 28 is a lot of boat for the money right now. Bill may be swaying me to the dark side. :)

One thing that I really liked was that you can un-screw the whole back deck in case you need to get to the fuel tank, bait tank, etc. No more having to cram your arm through little holes to get to fittings. I really liked the size of the engine room too.