fiberglass windshield

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Sep 29th, '10, 09:36

I know this topic has been brought up before,
I am at the point of fiberglassing the windshield in , I know of one fabricator in jupiter florida that has a composite windshield replacment, I think his name is Bill Homsley, has anyone tried another company that they would recommend that has a prefab windshield available.

I have been using Cabrerra parts and his windshield appears to be a cap that still utilizes the support of the old aluminum windshield frame which I do not want to keep, Cabrerra says it needs to stay for strength however I know this is not justified by the amount of boats I see with the composite windshield on the site

One of the fabricators working on the boat wants to do a one off, but cant lock in a price of how much it would cost? makes me nervous.

any suggestions would be great

Spencer

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Sep 29th, '10, 09:55

Call ant talk to Russ Swift about his composite windshield. Russ made a mold and might make a blank for you.

Fantastic Finishes of Palm Beach
900 Stinson Way - West Palm Beach, FL 33411
Shop: 561-790-4090 cell: 561 312 0943

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Sep 29th, '10, 11:53

Capt, thanks for the lead
will give him a call

Spencer

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Sep 29th, '10, 18:05

For what its worth, I installed a Holmsey on an FBC I owned 15 yrs ago and as of a yr ago when I saw the boat it was still looking good.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Sep 29th, '10, 19:09

How thick are the composite windsheilds? Im leaning towards molding a cabin for my Bahia Mar and want a good strong cabin windscreen combo..Got some scored dinvinycell forms compound curves nicely..3/4 with a couple layers of 1708 seem stought enough? BH

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Sep 29th, '10, 19:20

Craig, Russ has a high end paint shop that does lambos, ferraris porches etc, I got to know him and would recommend u talk to him, Pedro does some work for him, I wish I had moved my boat to his shop to have it painted,

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Sep 29th, '10, 19:26

gave him a call today He has a mold as capt said, going to check it out, seems like he has a really nice part , by the way how was the composite windshield you put on wahoo, cost etc, would you put the same one on again

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Sep 29th, '10, 19:40

I did not like the way the Holesey windshield fit, I could not get it to comply with the side openings, I paid him to secure it and was unhappy with his lack of technolgy and epoxy fillers, we cut holes in the brow of the hardtop to install some fasteners as well as the underside where the windshield had previously been attached, he basically glued the windshield in place and said that should work , I had subsequent glass work done by others that I felt were more competant, the locals at the lantana yard thought the windshield was a terrible misfit

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Sep 29th, '10, 20:43

Thanks for the reply Marlin, I was going to use one of Pedros contacts that worked at merrit boat works who had experience in doings this type of work but he decided not to go forward with the project, and pedro thought he could do it but im a little concerned of him doing the proper job.

So far have the rear bulkhead installed , deck supports, rudder supports, strut pads redone, and presently installing the foward bulkheads and the vberth.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Sep 30th, '10, 07:29

To Marlin's comment on the Holmsey .... mine was not a perfet fit and the yard and I did a bunch to get it in "right", but as of a yr ago it had held up well.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Sep 30th, '10, 19:14

Craig I will be back in3 weeks and would love to help u manage the replacement project

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 19:27

marlin i took a differant approach to installing my windshield mainly because i did it myself , did you ever see the instalation technique??

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Sep 30th, '10, 19:31

I would love to see your technique

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 30th, '10, 19:34

like snowflakes they are not all alike.
The holmsey mold fit that boat, and I dont recall it "dropping right in" to another .

How is Russ's part, basically the same- any differences in appearance?

It will always work out cheaper to buy a part someone else has a mold for, one-offs can be a real expensive project

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 19:59

just imagine you have marlin inside a huge maintenance building shut down for the winter with nobody just to give you a hand for a minute!! ok you purchase one of holmsey windshieds made with knotless fir on the top and bottom edge on the capt. recomendation.i remove old without lifting bridge just three supports with hand pressure then cut the old rotting windshield out .i trial fit the new windshield and the son of a bitch is at least TWO inches short and twisted on the port side.at this point i am not too smart trying to put a windshield in a totally finished painted boat!!!
i have to reinvent the wheel or take a hammer to the boat!! ok forget both port and starboard (and the brand new side windows) not even close. i find dead center of windshield and existing opening and pin (with stainless bolt)the upper rail to top and pull out supports.next i get a port-a- power from shop with thick rubber booth at one end and move every 6" and install another bolt on top .procedure; port 6" install bolt then starboard of center 6" and install bolt so on an so forth around entire top rail using head wall or planks right thru the boat to take dead end of port-a -power here are beginning photo`s.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:09

now we start the bottom it is completly wack out . the center again sitting on the raise area of the deck is centered and i install the first of 44 316 stainless 13/4" long lag bolts 1/4" diameter. i move the port-a-power a few inches at a time and sock up another bolt & washer going both ways from center evenly first one side then the other.the port- a- power actually make the windshield conform to the raised area on deck perfectly

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:22

ok now the new windshild conforms exactly with raised area but ends way short of side windows ----out they come the little job becomes huge and i can`t paint to save my life. the next step was the best i duct tape the inside of windshield both top and bottom . the outside i tape with simple painters tape then purchase empty cartrige tubes and made my "granite mix" 50% high density filler and 50% cabosul i made a pencil hole on the outside and one 3" to the right starting from far starboard side of windshield and pump the expoxy in until it came out the hole next to were i was pumping all the way across the top and bottom of windshield.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:25

Bob- it is like we are there with you doing it

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:30

i filled in the old windshield wiper holes and began the inpossible task of sanding the granite mixture expoxy . a little awl fair expoxy fairinf compound and the job came out perfect except the touch up turned out to be a nightmare and i painted the bridge entirely . side windows are 1/4" tempered limosine glass (alot of misspelling both you get the idea)

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:31

I didnot have a port a power , but used egyptian techology utilizing shim shingles and a big hammer to achieve a similiar result. did u sneak down and photograph my 2x4 props and then post them here, looks very suspious and similiar. After holmsey GLUED the windshield in with epoxy and CAVOSIL as a thickener I was somewhat concerned with the integrity in heavy seas , drilled 1" holes in the brow and secured with the same fastening method u mentioned and then ground the top , bottom, inside ,outside joints down and laid in a strip of1708 in each of these locations and then faired them out, also repaired the 13 holes we drilled thru the brow , easy install ,Craig should get Russ to identify how he will attach the windshield , trailer it to his place and pay him to do the job based on his quotation

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:38

yea robbie but you would be talented enought to blend the paint and not paint the whole upper bridge twice because there is a distinct paint line!!!!

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:41

bob lico wrote:yea robbie but you would be talented enought to blend the paint and not paint the whole upper bridge twice because there is a distinct paint line!!!!

you should have just called me and avoided that debacle

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:45

tears coming down my face as i sanded that beautiful imron paint !!!!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 30th, '10, 20:55

bottom line for all those who are reading this post ; number one the boat has been totally abused to the point of cresting a 10' wave at speeds and freefalling into the trough on the other side and going head first into the same seas with green water up to the bridge!!! the windshied does not have so much as a hair line crack in the paint!!! most important the boat takes on a completly differant feel . icould B.S all night about this but i took both harry and dug for a ride they can tell you. solid one piece boat contruction like a tank!!! no creak, no movement, no leaks, one piece boat.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Oct 1st, '10, 08:53

just a bit of Holmsey trivia that at least Randall will appreciate. Bill Holmsey manufactured surfboards in Juno Beach in the mid 1960's. I believe he was the very first East Coast surfboard manufacturer ever. He came over with experience from California working at Hobie. He created a very unique design called the Sidewinder. It had revers wingers on the tail with gutters that held the tail down allowing the rider to have very easy and long nose rides. The board didn't turn for shit! But if nose riding was what you wanted to do there has never been an easier way to do it. They are collectible and rare. I have a 9'9" Holmsey (not a sidewinder) I think its about a1966 era. So when you see him you could bring up that gem from history. Cool stuff. I would like to bring him my board for a gloss coat and shine.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 1st, '10, 09:39

I would like to bring him my board for a gloss coat and shine.

Along with an autograph before the gloss coat is applied...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '10, 10:44

just wanted to make a couple of issues perfectly clear. the quality of the glasswork and finish on holmsey windshield is perfect. the best application is for someone whom did not change side windows and where the windshield ends up on port and starboard side you build new side window frames to match. i should have chaged the windshield as the first project then follow with side windows not holmsey fault !!!

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Oct 1st, '10, 12:59

bob lico wrote:just wanted to make a couple of issues perfectly clear. the quality of the glasswork and finish on holmsey windshield is perfect. the best application is for someone whom did not change side windows and where the windshield ends up on port and starboard side you build new side window frames to match. i should have chaged the windshield as the first project then follow with side windows not holmsey fault !!!

cough::: what are you doing with the windows?::: cough

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '10, 13:19

the side windows and custom frames that fit in the 31 bertram stock original opening are for sale as of today. here is a picture of them;

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '10, 13:30

the completed windshield with wiper indentations fill in.

and the new side windows of temper glass

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 1st, '10, 14:05

The boat is damned solid. I want to do it to mine. No doubt.

Lacking courage! :)

and my excuse is the indoor space...

And I'm sticking to it!

Seriously, Bob, let me know when you want to do it again! I'm game...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '10, 14:47

dug in my humble opinion of the three choices of windshields ,the first is a outer skin your still left with the corroded inside alluminum frame. the second is to fill the glass with plywood and small pieces to fit around the contour of the lucite curved window you still have same inside as above and the third that finishes both inside and outside but most important joins the front deck to the bridge making a "battering ram" of the bow. i feel there is no other choice then the holmsey windshield with the port-a-power it is a piece of cake and if you don`t lift the bridge you can just cut out the frame without putting stress on pillars . other then repairing gel -cote from deck to windshield and bridge brim to top of windshield i see nothing so differcult. if the boat is painted you would have to match the paint-------------------------------------no comment!!!
dug i will give you a hand getting the windshield in but no paint/gel-cote

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Oct 1st, '10, 16:27

I meant more along the lines of our first conversation, when I asked about those damm windows!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '10, 17:26

robbie that picture is the old windows look at the front you can see the white canvas i had over the old windshield. the new windows are slightly longer and a differant angle to coincide with the holmsey windshield other then that they look the same.i have repair a scratch on the port side hull. i will prep and the boat will be inside with pro.compressor/drier just pull the trigger and take the windows home.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Oct 1st, '10, 18:08

Bob, Gotta think on your feet..especially working with old boats and "new" parts...Ive yet to see any fit just right...love how you made it fit with the porta power..then glass it all together..she should take quite a beating. BH

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 1st, '10, 19:11

bob i promise you get to drive her at 40mph into the biggest waves we can find at the next meeting of the band of brothers.i will let you decide!!!

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Oct 2nd, '10, 05:07

Bill Holmes was working at Viking in Riveria Beach last May, I had my boat at Palm Beach Towers {owned bt Viking} and he came over to look at the the helm seat he fabbed 4 me, boat jobs are tough in Florida, hopefully he found someone that will appreciate his talent, still dont like his windshield

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Oct 2nd, '10, 18:59

Went today and looked at the windshield mold, Russ did a great job and It fits perfectly on his boat which is to be expected , He utilized a divencyell core with coosa board in certain areas( if someone wanted to use faseners), he routed out the finished windshield to actually fit in the orignal curve at the bottom where the windshield fits and to provide room for the epoxy and cabosill mixture. His was in the boat boat epoxied in place, he had yet to run a strip of biaxial to finish , he was not going to be using fastners. The idea is to remove my windshield and take it to the mold to see how it approximates his mold prior to making a windshield.

The cost is expensive for the windshield , much more than homsley or cabrerras, however the finish looks great and if the fit is right on, the labor saving could be huge in the finishind product, I wish I had the time to do a lot of the labor but lack the time so have to pay.

His mold is completly backed up by a welded frame to minimize warpage during the fabrication process, his boat was made in the eary 70's mine was made in 61, so it will be neat to see how it compares to the mold,

To remove his windshield he had to cut the frames with a saw to remove them and then welded the windshield back together to make the mold.
he said it was a real pain to get the old windshield out because of the bolts being stripped .

Marlin, your welcome to check on the project and guide it along, cabrerra is doing some work on the vberth areas and installing the foward bulkheads and the entrance to the vberth area, My next area to work on is the aft bulkhead where the door is and get the windshield done.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 4th, '10, 07:56

What a tough call.

My boat is not painted. It is original gelcoat. But this weekend really gave me some stress. Liz and I contemplated running out to Block for lunch with a friend from high school on Sunday. It was really tough water. We turned around at Watch Hill Passage when we encountered the open water. It is one thing if you have to run home in it to get home. Its another when going out or coming in is voluntary. 5-6' waves. A 100' megayacht ran out into it and was taking water over the top.

My headliner fell down again, the windows leak like crazy, the floor is creaking in the cabin like it is possessed...

To do the windshield like Bob did would make a world of difference. But then I have to paint. If I paint I would like a new top, which leads to new canvas, and a new interior to tighten the moving items in the cabin, etc. etc.

Where does it end I ask? And do I tackle it? Is it really worth it? You guys know I love my boat, and she and I have been through a lot, but holy hell in the big scheme of things with houses etc., it just seems like a tough call.

Bob, you sure did a lovely, stout and proud job on Phoenix!!!

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Oct 4th, '10, 08:35

Dug- you would not have to paint the WHOLE boat, it is easily broken off.
Problem is the rest looks kind of crappy by comparison

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 4th, '10, 08:50

Exactly!!! And if I am going to do one thing, I might as well keep going to a degree, to get it to the way I want/like it.

The truth is that I have done a lot of the work, in fact most of it, myself. And it is solid, passes detailed inspection by the best (unless they are not telling me everything!) and lasts. But that being said, it has largely been non-finish items. Structural fiberglass, decking, light painting in non-critical areas.

It is when I get to the stage where it matters how it looks that I get nervous... And wish some of you guys who really have done it before with amazing results like JP, CMP, Bob and so on were closer, and I could figure out a way to lure you for your guidance and a bit of help. I have tools, and I have resources. I am lacking know how.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 4th, '10, 09:23

Dug, you can do it. Take lots of pics and the guys here will talk you through it.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Oct 4th, '10, 09:27

worse case you get with a local painter and go over the project together, letting him know you will be doing the grunt work and he will finish it up.
Most painters wont care about the grunt work, that is something that can take so long to do it sometimes becomes unreasonable to charge full labor for anyway.

Together maybe you can work it out where you take it as far as you can and he finishes it off for you.

M. REY · Post by **M. REY** » Oct 4th, '10, 14:41

CHECK OUT "HIGHTIDE MARINE" now they sale fiberglass window frames under Bertram 31 parts.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Oct 4th, '10, 15:21

does anybody know the cost of these frames?

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Oct 4th, '10, 15:42

Danny at high tide responded immediately to my question - 10500 for the set---has anybody installed them?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 4th, '10, 17:25

Haven't installed 'em, but I'm familiar with 'em... I think the molds to produce them may be from Ray Caberara when he and John Avala were working toward the "Classic 31". If not, they are just about identical.

The fiberglass work should be fairly straight forward. They are designed for direct glazing of the mineral glass and there will be some issues there.

Direct glazing, (like you see on almost all modern cars and some new boats), dictated that the glass must be cut using a much higher degree of accuracy to fit properly and cosmetically into the pocket. More $$$$

The glazing compound between the mineral glass and the fiberglass will be exposed to ultra violet light through the mineral glass, unless an absolutely opaque film is applied to the back side of the glass and extending out from the actual bedding plane. In the auto industry, and those boat builders that can both afford it and have a high enough volume to justify it, the opaque area is baked on in a special process and is ceramic. The bond of the opaque mask has to be 100% since the glazing compound is not going to contact the glass directly.

Without the opaque mask, it'll on be a matter of time before the UV light destroys the glazing. Without the opaque mask being fused to the mineral glass, the glazing of the mineral glass will be only as strong as the bond of the mask...

The radiused corner windows, being acrylic, will need to be masked with another material other than ceramic. Several coats of jet black Awlgrip might be a strong enough bond to plastic, but not to mineral glass, unless the glass is etched. More $$$$ Also theres the exact fit issue again.

I first researched the direct glazing process almost 10 years ago. My conclusion was, and still is, wayyyyyyyy too much expense and precision for one off projects...

Anyone interested in pursueing the technical difficulties involved might want to talk with Steve Padget, Sika Technical Support, 888 832 7452.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Oct 4th, '10, 22:39

dug all it takes is some planning and look at other boats before you step up to the plate. i have built every last thing on my boat other then the paint on the hull sides and bridge. i have made alot of mistakes and then go back and changes my mind on the finish project . just take one project at a time BUT do the windshield as the first hull project , because it has a dramatic effect on the rest of the boat.you only have to grind to green glass a 1" border above and below the actual windshield protect surronding area when working . i cannot tell you how to apply gel-cote but i can show you how to prep it.the oem gel-cote is easy to purchase and if you screw it up it only means more wet sanding it won`t destroy the boat.having the tools is half the battle.go for it!!

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