bertram31.com

Hi, hope everyone is enjoying the boating season so far.
I have a B31 I just got in sept. and only got to take it out 2 times in the ocean. The first time I was in a bluefish tournament and ran the boat for 9 hours. Half the time was cruising and the other half trolling.(aprroximately).

When I came in, i checked the oil, and the port engine was 5 quarts low, and the stbd. was nothing low. Where the hell did the 5 quarts go?
No sign of smoke when I am running, runs beautifully. No sheen in the water in the exhaust either.

I took it out last saturday, ran it for about 5 hours but mostly trolling for stripers. It used 2 quarts. Now I was looking for signs. I even felt all over the engine for leaks.

I use 40W rotella. The engine oil cooler is fresh water cooled. No signs of oil in the anti-freeze. Could it possibly burn that much oil and not be visible to the eye? 5 quarts I thought you would see some tell tale. The other engine burns nothing. They have 2,000 hours on them.
Really disgusted. Its a project in progress, but i have Walter K's philosophy, fish it and fix as we go along.

I hope somebody has an opinion. I am stumped at this point. Neither engine skips a beat when running.
Thanks! bob k

Is there any blowby?

Rawleigh;
i thought most diesels did have blowby because of the compression being high. But i guess I could take the hoses off the PCV canisters to check. But I think they get reburned again? You would think the amount this thing used, it would be seen, even if just a little.
Thanks, bob k

Check/calibrate your dipstick marks.

My 33 Bert with 3208T's was 17 years old when I got it, and both engines went through a lot of oil. Apparently nobody bothered to calibrate the marks for the natural tilt when the engine is installed in the boat. The engine is tilted to the rear (where all the oil runs back to) and the dipsticks are in the front. The situation causes you to overfill them unless someone calibrated the dipsticks. In my boat's case the factory installation, and three previous owners over 17 years, all failed to catch this little detail.

There is a chart in the CAT Manual for how long the dipstick marks should be, based on engine tilt. You'll need a tilt gauge that reads in degrees, readily available at well equipped tool/hardware stores, typically used for measuring roof slope.

I had to move both the "add" and "full" marks about an inch lower on both engines, which translated to about 2 quarts less oil per engine. After that correction they both stopped using so much oil. I guess when overfilled, the 3208 just consumes the extra oil, presumably burning it off through the CCV system.

5 quarts in one run is an awful lot, but this is a good place to start anyway. If that doesn't solve it then maybe next add the racor CCV blowby filters/oil collectors, and then the turbo bearings (can leak oil). I've done all those things over the years

Sean makes a real good point - check the dipstick on the oil-using engine against the one on the 'good' engine and see if the marks are the same. Cummins has a procedure for marking the sticks on the initial fill and a lot of folks tend to overfill the 6Bs....they hold about 16 qts. but Tony Athens, the Cummins guru, says more like 13 is plenty and they tend to just use the rest quick.....properly filled, mine - built in November, 1989 with a few thousand hours, use zero oil for the first 100 hours then a little after that. The book oil change interval is 200 hours but I never go that long, usually about 125 is it for me.

The excess oil has to be going out the exhaust somehow, either as smoke from burning it thru the CCV or as liquid due to a leak in the oil cooler.

UV

When I service my CATs 3208NA I check the dip stick marks when I fill the engines with oil. Mine use about 1 gal per 100 hrs I think.

Look at the water coming out of your exhausts at the dock. You will see an oil sheen on the water coming from your engine that's losing oil. You have a leak in your oil cooler and you're shooting oil out your exhaust to varying degrees. Want to be sure? Switch oil coolers and I'll bet your other engine will be the one losing oil. Oil coolers are relatively inexpensive to buy and if I am not mistaken to be recored. Everything you have said points to that. No smoke, engine runs smoothly, no loss of rpm's, no overheating...why? All is OK except you're mixing your raw water with oil via a pin (or bigger) hole in your cooler.

the 3208 just consumes the extra oil

True, 3208's naturally burn a little oil. It's just part of the deal. The "typical" burn is 1-2 quarts per 10-12 hours. There is an upgrade for the older engines in the form of a piston / ring package.

"if" you ever rebuild the CATs including a .30 over bore, you need to ask about cylinder repair kit 200-7130. This part number breaks down to 199-9873 (kit piston) and 199-9872 (kit ring) It provides for a 3 ring set up= better oil control.

But you will more than likely never get there, they can go 10,000+ hours below 355hp. Some users claim 20,000+ hrs.

2000 hrs=needs injectors
5000-7000 hrs = needs the heads rebuilt (there yet?)

These numbers came from the 3208 user's board on boatdiesel.com.

TUFF old engines. In the average pleasure boat they can last the life of the boat owner, if cared for....I like 3208s. (can you tell) There are a lot of good used 3208s out there sitting around going to waste....everybody wants to go fast, or the owners just get tired of looking at them and want to upgrade...go figure.

Thanks everybody. I will go down tomorrow to check it all out. The oil cooler thing is feasible, but its in the fresh water side. Not like the trans cooler. I hope to get to the bottom of this and get back and let you know if I find anything.
Sure is frustrating.
Thanks again everyone.
Bob k

Scot:
These have 2000 hours on them, and are the 260 hp versions. This boat is a tank and doesnt seem to roll on a drift like i have heard Berts do. And actually doesnt seem that wet either.
Thanks fore the info. Im going to swap the CCV cannister just to see if its them. The joys of having twins.
Thanks,
bob k

Scott,
I was planning on my naturals lasting more then 25 years and 4500 hrs but a loose rist pin killed that dream. But I love no turbo whin. 3208NA are KISS motors for sure. The oil coolers on mine are built in to the side of the motor where the oil filters would mount but I have remote mounts. I rebuilt on of my oil coolers a pain in the but CAT has 5 different designs and mine were different. A little customizing and I got it.
Good Luck.

Happy Fathers day to all. Should have went fishing but it looked like thunder storms here.
Capt. Frank, I get no whine from the turbos, not like my Detroits did or my brothers Volvos.
But when you mentioned the oil coolers, even though they are fresh water cooled, if they are clogged, it doesnt allow the oil to get cooled and breaks down the viscosity from the heat, and makes it more prone to burning?
What i will try is while cruising, check both oil pans for temperature with the infra-red gun. Compare both engines for oil pan temp.
Just a wild ass guess.my hypothesis.
Have a great day all.

Thanks Capt. Bob Lico for the great front window cover. It makes a difference in the boat. And for the guided tour of your boat too. It is just beautiful.

I have a pair of 320hp in my NorthCoast...if there is a leak in your oil-coolers, there will be signs of it in your expansion tank. If you just remove the cap on the top of the heatexchanger expansion cap and look in there, you;ll see oil in there if thats what's going on.

As for "clogging", its not likely, as these coolers are on the freshwater side. But, i can tell you when i first bought my boat, i pulled all of the plugs on the block to flushout old coolant. I was horrified at the crap that came out of some of the plugs...especially the small ones near the rear/bottom of the block. If you have not already done this, might be a good job for some crappy, windy day when you can[t go fishing.

Joe