what rudders do i have?

fishlook · Post by **fishlook** » Feb 19th, '10, 07:24

These are the rudders on my 1968 31' Project. What are they?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 19th, '10, 07:57

Looks like my oversized rudders... (placement of the zinc, depth of the shaft stock onto the rudder blade, and extension of the leading edge. Fabricated rather than cast.) Are they sainless steel?

fishlook · Post by **fishlook** » Feb 19th, '10, 08:18

Patrick I believe they are SS, will double check next time i'm at yard.

I was hoping that they weren't the stock bertram sticks...

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Feb 19th, '10, 19:59

Those are most def BIG rudders. Mine are (were) the 28 stir sticks about as big as your zincs.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Feb 19th, '10, 21:38

Fishlook.
They look like they are the large style 31 rudders. It looks like you have some serious stray current corrosion, judging by the condition rudder port and the pitting on the prop blades. I would check the condition of your bonding system for loose or missing connections. If you don't address the corrosion problem it's not going matter what size rudders you have.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '10, 22:22

those are 304 ss rudders made by that (here goes the spelling again) bradaton (sp?) florida , propellar and machine shop. nice quality work.listen to Pete fallon that is a problem.i like the captains idea tie all metal bonds together on copper strips located on both sides of stringers and then put center mounted zinc on transon connected to both strips.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 04:16

those are 304 ss rudders made by that (here goes the spelling again) bradaton (sp?) florida , propellar and machine shop.

Think you're wrong there Bob...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 20th, '10, 09:23

then they dublicated them in ss. a bertram 31 definitly had them made there and installed at this marina. i might be able to get address if you need it.they were 304 ss and for a little more money they would go with 316ss. general propeller,bradenton, florida

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 09:42

bob lico wrote:then they dublicated them in ss. a bertram 31 definitly had them made there and installed at this marina. i might be able to get address if you need it.they were 304 ss and for a little more money they would go with 316ss. general propeller,bradenton, florida

And how do you know this for a fact? That these rudders, (on a Port Aransas, TX B31), are knockoffs?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 20th, '10, 09:50

captain i don`t want to use the word knockoffs ,just mentioning some guy ran aground about 10 years ago and this shop made him a pair instead of buying one in bronze . just a cusual observer trying to help., but we have that shop on file and they will "dublicate" .

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 10:06

just mentioning some guy ran aground about 10 years ago and this shop made him a pair instead of buying one in bronze.

Big difference between that and stating flatly that the rudders pictured were done by someone else... That doesn't mean that they weren't, and I still have not totally accepted that they are mine as a fact either, but the overlay is nearly a perfect match... There are over 300 pairs of my rudders in action on B31s out there.

Are there copies out there? I'd be heart broken if there weren't.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Feb 20th, '10, 10:14

thought for a moment there we would have to bring uv out of retirement

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 10:29

Naw, life's too short for that kinda' stuff... Especially between friends and family.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 20th, '10, 10:51

well said and with 300 pair out there i would go with percentages that they may be yours . at least you know of one shop now that made a pair of ss "knockoff".

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 11:06

I had one bloke from down under call and pester me 4 or 5 times about the actual dimensions of my rudders so that he could fabricate his own and save the horrendous shipping costs and delays to Australia. He's the only one I've ever given that much detailed info to. Still didn't divulge a couple of the "secret" assembly techniques...

Life's WAY TOO SHORT for me to be concerned about copyright crap on my own designs.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 20th, '10, 11:26

well captain you are just to nice of a guy. i can`t beleive this guy actually calling like that. after s&k/ zul engines blew away the competition on the apba offshore circuit they were flooded with calls/inquires . unlike you they had a secrectary to weed out the" tire kickers" going to cost you two engines mimunim in stock class at 25,000 each. so it is 50,000 for you too buy disassemble and try to figure out what the hell richie was doing.there is no phone in the engine/dyno area and he flat will not discuss anything over the phone . no entrance to shop engine assembly area buy anybody even in emergency!! you put alot of hours in perfecting those rudders and it shows i would stand guard over the details !

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 11:58

Big difference between the design of a boat rudder for just one specific old boat and the high performance aspects of a race engine... Anybody can trace a rudder in a boat yard, and I've probably already captured 85% of what market there is on these.

I may never have much more than a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of with this attitude, but then neither will I have the ulcers and legal costs connected with chasin' design infringements.

fishlook · Post by **fishlook** » Mar 1st, '10, 08:21

the previous owner of my boat just got back to me ......

he confirms that they are indeed capt. patrick's rudders. :-D

Rob C · Post by **Rob C** » Mar 10th, '10, 22:53

Wow, been away for way too long.
My wife and I opened another restaurant in Austin and have been way to busy for the last year. I would have gotten back to Jay sooner but I was in Panama fishing Pinas Bay/Tropic Star area. We went 6/14 on Blues in 4 days! We even out-fished the entire lodge two days! Had some great luck. I thought about this great board and the GREAT boat I had recently sold, looking at 15 of the best boats ever built. I was only glad to have sold it to a guy with young sons that could have the memories of growing up fishing and enjoying the sea.

Here is a link to a vid of our trip.
Rob C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0PwPiOY ... tube_gdata

PS Those are Pats rudders, sorry for the bad shape they are in but that's why I had to sell her.

scot · Post by **scot** » Mar 10th, '10, 23:01

Looks like 316 material. 304 bleeds from the pores and it is very obvious. I built a strut from 304 and everytime I pulled the boat the strut was red-desh looking, those are showing their hi nickle content...316.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '10, 23:23

capt. patrick i notice those knockoffs are also on a boca grande we have in the yard. not quite sure of spelling but it is a well made center console with a single cummins 6bta diesel.my guess is somebody is making these ss rudders and suppling them in florida. unfoutunate some brilliant mind put something like this together and others just scoop up on it.saw release marine put sand on a vanish surface for non-skid effect .this was used on bottom footrest on a fighting chair .looked great and a two piece ss. rod holder with a flange that goes under gunnel and the round traditional holder on top .look extreme high end unfoutunate these items will be copied also.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 11th, '10, 05:28

unfoutunate some brilliant mind put something like this together and others just scoop up on it.saw release marine put sand on a vanish surface for non-skid effect

How can you be sure Release didn't get that from someone else? I've been doing that for quite a few years, and with the right aggregate the sand wets out, totally clear. Not suggesting they got it from me, by any means, but what came first, the chicken or the egg?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 11th, '10, 07:07

that figures the varnish wizard (buju) most have created it and release marine copy it. buju are you sure you don`t want to come up here and work? your the man!!!

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 11th, '10, 22:01

Nah, I'm good here Capt...
Rather remain poor, unappreciated, and satisfied.
Beats wealthy, in demand, and stressed to the max... every time.

Right?

and, I reinterate:

I, in no way, am even remotley suggesting that a company like Release got any ideas from me. just sayin' with an idea/technique, it's hard to credit the originator. Much more so than with a product.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 12th, '10, 08:57

buju i was a little amased to find out he used ordinary beach sand not the algrip additive you might expect. the chair will be here next month i will post a photo for you.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Mar 12th, '10, 10:58

ordinary beach sand through a flower sifter is pretty common practice

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Mar 13th, '10, 06:58

ordinary beach sand through a flower sifter is pretty common practice

Sure Matt, if your making the steps on your porch safer, or if your doing a cost effective non slip cockpit sole...

But if you do that to brightwork thats been epoxy encapsulated, then hit with 10 to 12 coats of clear poly, it'll look like someone covered it with ordinary beach sand through a flour sifter... a buncha junk/contaminent in the finish.
Point is, beach sand will not wet out and become transparent... It also has alot of variations in the size of the grains of sand.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Mar 16th, '10, 01:37

yayaya you guys and your pretty wood!
:) ya i saw them doing that on steps for an oil rig haha!

but you do you sand right? just a different type??

bertram31.com

what rudders do i have?

what rudders do i have?

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