Well I can not beleive it, ran offshore for the first time in weeks as the wind finally got below 30 mph - ran out to look for weed lines and see if we could find a Hoo in the chop. No luck so on our way back we hit a couple of rigs about 6 miles offshore. Caught our limit of Red Snapper and headed back in. Cleared the Jetty at Packery Channel and guess who was waiting with the lights flashing NMFS - slowed and stoped got the usual questions about where were you and what did you fish for then request to board and inspect catch.
First question where did you catch these snapper - Answer in Texas Waters 6 or 7 miles out - You sure - Yes I am sure - Can you prove it - Can you prove I did not - All I need is reasonable doubt and I write the ticket - Well lets look at the GPS and see what our track for the day shows - Sounds good hope it shows you by some rigs in Texas waters - Here we go out 36 miles pretty much straight line then some weed line fishing then out 8 more more weed line fishing then back in to rig fish, see the track all around the rig - OK your clean - Just wondering how often you guys check around here - From now until Texas complies with the Federal law on snapper quotas and seasons you can expect to see us here or at Aransas - Wow guess we need to suceed from the union to end the harassment - Don't know but if it was me I would buy a federal recreation permit if you happen to catch a blue fin or a bill fish or even a shark this summer, the fine for not having one makes illegal snapper fishing look cheap.
Guess who came home and spent 16 bucks on a federal permit - I did not even know I was required to have one.
Oh don't forget even though the permit is for the boat you have to have picture ID and the boat permit on board to avoid a fine. Guess it is tough to fine a boat so they send you the fine in hopes that you can convince the boat to pay up.
Receipt for Order 20299249
Thank you for your order. Please, check your permit information, documentation number, and category carefully. ANY CORRECTION TO YOUR PERMIT CATEGORY MUST BE DONE WITHIN 10 CALENDAR DAYS OF THE DATE OF ISSUANCE. You may print this receipt as a record of your purchase. (Note: this is not your permit, and may not be used as a substitute for your permit.) You may also check the status of your items using the number shown above or any of your permit or registration numbers. Finally, we encourage you to click Contact above to suggest ways of improving the NMFS Permit Shop.
Clay
Receipt for Order 20299249
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
I have so many things to say about how ridiculous this is getting...
-what the hell ever happened to innocent till proven guilty to start with.
What if you where like me and had your chartplotter go out on you then decided not to buy a new one because 90% of the places you go you don't need one.
What if you where like me and deleted the plots lines almost as fast as you made them because you hate clutter...
Permits up the ying yank to recreationaly catch fish is ridiculous when trawlers wil come in and completely desimate the grounds...but thats okay because they have permits or do it when no ones looking.
Almost makes you want to build concealed compartments into the boat and make bootleg runs with your catch...
Heres a scenario for you to ponder, what if you went to the store and bought shorts, (apparently they are legal there) then brought them to your boat to cook and eat. If you where caught with them shorts you would have nothing but a receipt from the store that you bought them. No plotter record there and if you where like me the first thing I do with a receipt is crumble and toss it...so I'd be screwed...
Ridiculous...
-what the hell ever happened to innocent till proven guilty to start with.
What if you where like me and had your chartplotter go out on you then decided not to buy a new one because 90% of the places you go you don't need one.
What if you where like me and deleted the plots lines almost as fast as you made them because you hate clutter...
Permits up the ying yank to recreationaly catch fish is ridiculous when trawlers wil come in and completely desimate the grounds...but thats okay because they have permits or do it when no ones looking.
Almost makes you want to build concealed compartments into the boat and make bootleg runs with your catch...
Heres a scenario for you to ponder, what if you went to the store and bought shorts, (apparently they are legal there) then brought them to your boat to cook and eat. If you where caught with them shorts you would have nothing but a receipt from the store that you bought them. No plotter record there and if you where like me the first thing I do with a receipt is crumble and toss it...so I'd be screwed...
Ridiculous...
Federal Fisheries laws are civil and NOT criminal. Most times the civil violations are hit the wallet harder than actual criminal violations. It does still have to be proven by the fihseries agents as to the violation. Remember, they would have to go before a federal magistrate and they would look like total jackasses if they did not have a sound case. Next point is you can allow an agent to look at your GPS. They do not have the right to look at your gps track line. Most people will allow them to because it is easier and will conclude the boarding much faster, especially if you have not done anything wrong. The exception to that is Customs agents and a scenario where you crossed the 9 mile "border" on the gulf side. All electronics are subject to search, all areas of the boat are fair game as well. Reason behind it is goods comming and going from the states are regulated. Keep in mind your stuff is not going to be searched unless there is a good reason for it such as a known smuggler of goods or people. All I can tell you is in my opinion is that you were boarded by the new guys or they were bluffing you which again would look pretty bad on them in court. Just my .02
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In Memory Walter K
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2912
- Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:25
- Location: East Hampton LI, NY
- Contact:
Boats fish Montauk waters from several adjacent states. Rhode Island, Connecticut, and often New Jersey and Massachusetts. Each has different size and bag limits on some species (Fluke being the most radical of differences). Supposedly, they cannot land or they will be held to NY rulings. Makes one wonder what would happen if they were boarded by a NY State DEC officer. Most are on board a Harbor Patrol or USCG vessel who can stop and board any vessel for no specific reason no matter where they're from.
Another crazy rule. Most charters (and private boats) going offshore for Shark, stop at the point on the way to try and catch a few Bluefish for bait. The standard process is by trolling or diamond jigging. If they happen to catch a legal Bass while they're doing that, and keep it then go offshore for Shark, they are now "in possession of" a Striped Bass in Federal waters which is illegal.
For years we have fished "The Sub Bouy" for Striped Bass. It is an area mid way between Montauk Lighthouse and Block Island. That's more than 3 miles from either...thus Federal Waters. ANYONE with a Bass there is in violation and can (and have) be ticketed.
Fish for Striped Bass off Block Island and return to Montauk Harbor and you have been in posession of a Striped Bass in Federal Waters. There's no way to come back with a fish without committing that violation.
The guys that make these rules are worthy of being in Congress (IQ of less than 50). Walter
Another crazy rule. Most charters (and private boats) going offshore for Shark, stop at the point on the way to try and catch a few Bluefish for bait. The standard process is by trolling or diamond jigging. If they happen to catch a legal Bass while they're doing that, and keep it then go offshore for Shark, they are now "in possession of" a Striped Bass in Federal waters which is illegal.
For years we have fished "The Sub Bouy" for Striped Bass. It is an area mid way between Montauk Lighthouse and Block Island. That's more than 3 miles from either...thus Federal Waters. ANYONE with a Bass there is in violation and can (and have) be ticketed.
Fish for Striped Bass off Block Island and return to Montauk Harbor and you have been in posession of a Striped Bass in Federal Waters. There's no way to come back with a fish without committing that violation.
The guys that make these rules are worthy of being in Congress (IQ of less than 50). Walter
Kevin wrote:Federal Fisheries laws are civil and NOT criminal.
All I can tell you is in my opinion is that you were boarded by the new guys or they were bluffing you which again would look pretty bad on them in court. Just my .02
Kevin, if I wind up "in court" for going fishing and obeying the regulations something is really wrong. At that point I really don't care if the agent gets slammed afterwards for bringing me to court. My day of fishing turned to crap, plus the anxiety of going to court would ruin several additional days.
Being stopped is just a bad experience at best. I try to make the best of it, offer a soda, food, whatever I have, let them ask whatever, look around, but then having a Gung-Ho agent, officer in charge makes it feel more like an interogation, makes you feel like you are a criminal and there is just no need for that.
In all honesty I have to say most of the agents / officers could not be nicer, but those few that aren't can really ruin your day out on the water, my day that is, and I do not get many days anymore.
my .02
True Sim, it sucks indeed...
But thanks to Kevin sharing his knowledge, at least you know where you stand.
And if you've got some hotshot potentially abusing his position, and you politely inform him that you are aware of his limitations and your rights, it may go a little smoother...
OR it could backfire and he'll go ballistic and attempt to throw the book at ya, but you still know where you stand.
I'm moving to the Bahamas... soon as I get my B20 done.
But thanks to Kevin sharing his knowledge, at least you know where you stand.
And if you've got some hotshot potentially abusing his position, and you politely inform him that you are aware of his limitations and your rights, it may go a little smoother...
OR it could backfire and he'll go ballistic and attempt to throw the book at ya, but you still know where you stand.
I'm moving to the Bahamas... soon as I get my B20 done.
I don't know what the world may want,
But a good stiff drink it surely dont,
Think I'll go and fix myself...a tall one.
But a good stiff drink it surely dont,
Think I'll go and fix myself...a tall one.
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AndreF
- Senior Member
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 09:53
- Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
- Contact:
What sucks is a second grader can look at a boat and crew and know if it "doesn't look right" regarding a smuggling operation or some other "illegal activity" in a heart beat.
Yet, ligit boaters get treated like smugglers, crooks and terrorists SOMETIMES (not all).
God help the "rookies" if they really stumble (and I do mean stumble) over a real terrorist or sumggler.
Yet, ligit boaters get treated like smugglers, crooks and terrorists SOMETIMES (not all).
God help the "rookies" if they really stumble (and I do mean stumble) over a real terrorist or sumggler.
I'm not sure but indecision may or may not be my problem.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
1981 FBC BERG1883M81E
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
1981 FBC BERG1883M81E
What really sucks is it sounds like a squabble between the feds and state people and the feds have decided to make life miserable for the average joe in order to put pressure on the state. It sounds like they think fisherman are going to complain to the state and force their hand. From the Texans I know it sounds like a plan that could backfire sorely.
I agree we need some rules to protect ourselves and the environment. With rules you need someone to enforce those rules. Got it.
But little by little these rules and those that regulate it are chipping away and literally destroying what used to be a fun, exciting sport / hobby, call it what you will.
If I want to go out and try to catch fish, I not only have to see what is runnning but see what season is open, and check the size limitations.
If I go offshore I need permits to catch certain species.
For Bluefin, I need a list of safety equipment that is ridiculous, at least for where I would fish, when I would fish.
If I want to fish for Stripers and big Fluke they closed up access to a Hot Spot fearing terrorism. Yet last year one boat with several guys and only pole motored in and around that area for days before they where finaly boarded, checked and found to be less then upstanding citizens...actually not citizens at all.
If I take my family to the beach, I can't go within a mile of one beach we used to frequent and last year we where kicked off another beach as it is now a Bird Sanctuary. So now we go and have to stand in the water at the edge of the beach...thats okay.
At least the officer who kicked us off was cool...nice boat, what year is she- 62- wow they don't make em like that anymore-gas or diesel- gas, maybe someday diesel- your family?- yeah, finally got a day to take them here, it brings back memories, I used to come here all the time with my parents and their friends, quiet here today- Yeah, hate to tell you this, but the area is closed to people, unless you get a permit to walk thru to fish at the jetti- Are you serious? Yeah, I gotta go finish my patrol. I'll be back in an hour, if your "ON the Beach when I get back in an hour" I have to fine you- Dam, why is it closed- Bird Sanctuary- Really- Yeah- Can I go around the point to the other beach. Bird sanctuary there too- Can I cruise down a bit...you can but you have to stay a mile off the beach, public beach no boats- So where can I bring the kids to the beach by boat-
blandk stare and a- sorry-
But little by little these rules and those that regulate it are chipping away and literally destroying what used to be a fun, exciting sport / hobby, call it what you will.
If I want to go out and try to catch fish, I not only have to see what is runnning but see what season is open, and check the size limitations.
If I go offshore I need permits to catch certain species.
For Bluefin, I need a list of safety equipment that is ridiculous, at least for where I would fish, when I would fish.
If I want to fish for Stripers and big Fluke they closed up access to a Hot Spot fearing terrorism. Yet last year one boat with several guys and only pole motored in and around that area for days before they where finaly boarded, checked and found to be less then upstanding citizens...actually not citizens at all.
If I take my family to the beach, I can't go within a mile of one beach we used to frequent and last year we where kicked off another beach as it is now a Bird Sanctuary. So now we go and have to stand in the water at the edge of the beach...thats okay.
At least the officer who kicked us off was cool...nice boat, what year is she- 62- wow they don't make em like that anymore-gas or diesel- gas, maybe someday diesel- your family?- yeah, finally got a day to take them here, it brings back memories, I used to come here all the time with my parents and their friends, quiet here today- Yeah, hate to tell you this, but the area is closed to people, unless you get a permit to walk thru to fish at the jetti- Are you serious? Yeah, I gotta go finish my patrol. I'll be back in an hour, if your "ON the Beach when I get back in an hour" I have to fine you- Dam, why is it closed- Bird Sanctuary- Really- Yeah- Can I go around the point to the other beach. Bird sanctuary there too- Can I cruise down a bit...you can but you have to stay a mile off the beach, public beach no boats- So where can I bring the kids to the beach by boat-
blandk stare and a- sorry-
Last edited by Carl on Mar 17th, '09, 09:07, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah Dug he was well above average.
What is unfortunate is when I read the 1st post all I could remember is my less then average experiences with less ten average Officers, Rangers, DEC, DEP and Coast Guard, yep they all set up shop for a little while in my little harbor oasis, so one week it may be a quick stop by one, next week another, then the followed week you'll have guys walking the dock,then it starts all over again. In general I have to say most are above average guys that you know are only doing their job, but others are real...I'll leave it there.
What is unfortunate is when I read the 1st post all I could remember is my less then average experiences with less ten average Officers, Rangers, DEC, DEP and Coast Guard, yep they all set up shop for a little while in my little harbor oasis, so one week it may be a quick stop by one, next week another, then the followed week you'll have guys walking the dock,then it starts all over again. In general I have to say most are above average guys that you know are only doing their job, but others are real...I'll leave it there.
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