bertram31.com

Anyone have any experience with this product? It is a two-part acrylic urethane wood finish with several reported advantages over traditional varnishes... one of which is a chemical bond between coats, if applied in within rapid succession of each other ( translation: no sanding between coats )
http://www.bristolfinish.com

I'm going to be doing a refinish job on all of the teak ( coverboards, combings, toerail, house window frames, bow pulpit, dinghy stands, radar base, etc, etc ) on a 48' Pacemaker SF ( looks like a Post ). This product is currently on the teak, and looks like it's held up fairly well. The owner wants to stick with it, and I'm all for it, I just hate using a brand new product on beautiful teak work without having any prior experience with it... Baptisim by fire...I'll probably screw around with it on some teak around the house first just to get a feel for it...
Any input appreciated, as always...

The only problem with two part products on exterior wood is when you need to get it off. Its very hard and sanding is a pain down the road. I wouldnt worry about the quality since all brands are basically the same base resin/cataylist mixture. Not sanding between coats is a plus but make sure you recoat within the time as stated on the can.

Buju,

I had terrible luck with this product as I have with most teak finishes exposed to the hot SW Florida sun. The wood I used it on that was in the salon did very well and needed no touch up even after about 4 years. You have to put on 3 to 6 coats or even more. But outside, you can expect a major touchup within 3 or 4 months. And, I tried using it in the cockpit area 3 times and all with bitter dissapointments. Any wood out in this hot sun should be covered I guess when not in use. Down where you are, I wouldn't epect anythin different.

It doesn't have a really good shelf life either. Of course, my garage where I kept the left over stored is hot too.

Dick

Skipper Dick- I feel your pain. Despite how much I love the look of teak, I have tried to keep it to a bare minimum when ever possible.

Is good old fashioned teak oil a better alternative?

Well, I do not have much teak on my Bertram in the cockpit area for the simpel reason that it takes too much maintenance down here, but what little I do have, I use teak oil on and when it gets crummy, I clean it off and re-oil it. I have teak inside and I've used Goldspar Satin and it's good to go for a long time.

Dick

Just finished all the teak on our outboard using it and it came out looking great, and very user friendly....can't comment on the longevity though since I was redoing a previous Cetol application.

Rick

Dick- That makes sense to me. I never seem to have had luck with varnish on exterior teak, even up north here. The wood looks great after you clean and oil it with Teak Oil. In some areas vernish on teak just strikes me as unsafe, maybe making the surface slippery. Is this my imagination or what?

Outside either oil it or leave it bare. Two different looks but the easiest to maintain and to walk on. Varnishing it is almost sacreligious and trying to do a proper job of touching up seems to be more work than recleaning and reoiling. Walter

Thanks guys...
Jspiezio, any varnished wood surface will be slick as snot...
I never have understood why folks would varnish their cover boards, swim platforms, etc. Besides being unsafe to walk on, one solid hit from a medium to heavy gimbled rodbutt, and the film is compromised, allowing moisture to get under the film and do it's thing. Any product that leaves a film, or encapsulates the substrate is only good until that barrier is breached, then it's maintenence time...
Teak oil leaves no film, it absorbs into the outer layers of the teak itself. SO it does nothing to protect the wood from impact or abrasion, it just aids the teak with it's inherent water resistance & helps to prolong the UV rays from graying the surface.
If this were my 48' Sportfish... the only things that would be varnished would be the toe rail, the house window framing & flybridge accents, and probably the radar mount and other odds & ends. But the cover boards, coaming, and 9' bow pulpit... no way in hell.
But the customer gets what the customer wants. He has had the existing Bristol Finish on there for 5 to 6 years ( has custom canvas covers for every single peice of teak, even 80' of toe rail!! ) and is real happy with it... I'm looking forward to applying it, seems like it may be a real good product- definatley saves me time with the rapid film build accquired by quick recoats with no sanding... great for the bottom line...
BUT doesn't Epiphanes have a product that allows this as well? I need to better explore the Epiphanes product line, I know their reputation is well deserved. Next job...

Buju- I have a good friend who is a big "Blow-boater" (not that there's anything wrong with that....) and he has every piece of teak on his sail boat varnished about a 1/16" thick. Like you said, it looks great until some one drops a spinnaker pole or a winch handle into it. Then the water get beneath it and it peels off in 1/16" thick sheets.

But the circle remains unbroken because he starts all over again the next season.....

Thanks for sharing your insights and experience guys.

Mark, Captain Pat did a great job of describing the build up process with epifanes in his piece on building a helm pod. I love the idea of the many thin coats with minimal or no sanding between coats. As usual the key is preparation and organization. The best varnish that i have ever seen was on a wooden sailboat that they used very similair methods. The owner of that yacht also had miles of covers that we put on everytime that we put in. The exposed varnish lasted one year, anything that was out of harms way lasted alot longer. I used Pat's method on the Baron's dash and have been very happy.

Rod,
I forgot about that... Which is strange, because I was so impressed with the end result of that teak pod. But immitation is the most sincere form of flattery, and I've since done several jobs with a similar system:
Three coats of West System with the 207 UV hardener, first coat thinned 5 to 10% with denatured alcohol, sanding with 220 , and alcohol wiping between each coat. Washed down with soap and water to remove the amine. Then four to five coats of Petit 1015 Captains Varnish sprayed on via HVLP. I've been pretty happy with the Petit 1015, Did a pair of mahogany garage doors with this system, they're in direct sun most of the day, still look good a year and a spare change later. Great gloss retention, fair amount of UV resistance,etc. But it has got to be abraded between coats, I tried once to do a a light coat sprayed over the last coat (still tacky) and the whole finish orange peeled... So, no more of that.
Maybe this Bristol Finish, applied over an epoxy base coat, will be the ultimate coating for exterior teak. Maybe I need to study up on Epiphanes...

Used Bristol Finish on the teak side panels in Triton II's companionway two years ago. Still looks good.
Of course, I sanded to bare wood and laid on a coat of thinned epoxy for starters. Then multiple coats of Bristol Finish. I'm satisfied.
Oh, yeah, very good ventilation is a requirement. Did my panels in the garage with the door open and still needed a good mask.

Buju,

Epiphanes has, in my estimation, the very best varnish systems on the market. They also have 2 part varnish...

For those, especially newer members, that haven't seen the progression on Gerry's teak console, here's the link: http://bertram31.com/parts/console/zc.htm


Br,

Patrick

Thanks Capt. Pat... Your estimations & reccomendations are obviously not taken lightly. I'll be purchasing some of the Epiphanes Wood Finish Gloss to use on my next exterior varnish job, in place of the Petit 1015. I see that there is no sanding required between coats, but the recoat time is a bit long. Have you ever used the Rapidcoat to build up the film, then a few coats of the Wood Finish Gloss over that? Seems like a good system, if they're compatable.

I have used the epiphanes varnish for the various teak trim panels, pulpit, and fighting chair on my boat. As Capt. Patrick has told me and can tell you, there is a learning curve involved with epiphanes varnish.

Yeah Harv, every product (especially specialty products) has it's own idiosyncracies (sp??)...
That's why I started this thread to begin with, to find out if there were any with the Bristol Finish before I start slappin' it (not really) all over this sportfish. Really helps to know how the product is gonna behave, or misbehave...before it does.

Everything is easy when you know how :)

I look forward to trying the Epiphanes....

One thing I have done with my teak work is to use West System epoxy for a sealer and first few coats. I find that by using the epoxy as a base it saves on the number of varnish coats. Also if the varnish begins to fade or blister, you only have to go back as far as the epoxy instead of stripping the varnish to bare wood.

Buju,

Rapidcoat is what I used for about the first 10 spray coats on the console as a base. You can shoot 3 - 4 coats about an hour apart, Then let sit for 24 hr before the next coats. If brushing, cut that to two coats with a 24 hr period.

The real learning curve for the Epiphanes final finish varnish is to only apply 1 coat, let it cure for 24 hrs, scuff it to a dull finish with a medium 3M refinishing pad & water. Dry it well & apply the next coat. 2 - 3 brushed on finish coats or 4 - 5 sprayed coats is fine for finishing. Epiphanes is a much heavier viscosity than the usual varnishes, builds faster & deeper, and is more prone to alligatoring if you try to rush the re-coat intervals.

Br,

Patrick

Two years ago we sailed to St. Lucia.. when you are a visitor there and tie up in a marina the dockmaster assigns you a "boat boy" who is supposed to do things such as wash your boat, help you find repair facilities, run errands and do other odd jobs for you. Several also do varnish work as another service. I watched one of these guys varninshing an older all bright wood 40' sailboat. I have been varnishing mahogany in New England for years, but this guy's work looked so good I stopped and asked him where the boat was from, and what varnish he was using. He told me the boat stayed there year round, and was owned by a wealthy man from New York City who came down several times a year to use it. He said all they use there is Epifanes.. he said they sometimes try samples of new varnishes that appear on the market, but he said far and away Epifanes is the only varnish that will stand up to their sun exposure, which is probably even worse than in Florida. As I work on rebuilding "Phoenix", and am adding some teak trim outdoors, all I will use is the epoxy/Epifanes system that Capt Pat described in the teak Pod article!