B-31 center console?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 31st, '08, 12:43

I have a friend in Montauk with a B-31 Sportsfisherman named "Tippet". As the name implies, he does a lot of offshore fly fishing and I have caught several Makos and Bluefin on flies with him. I was surprised when he called me and asked if I had ever seen a B-31 hull made into a center console. The only one I had ever seen was at a UVI in Port Eads and that one was repowered with outboards. Given the way he fishes his inerest would be in keeping inboard power. He's smart enough to know he'd need a good naval architect to plan this out properly. Do any of you know of a successful inboard B-31 center console?

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Mar 31st, '08, 13:31

I saw one in key west but the boat was in terrible shape

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Mar 31st, '08, 13:53

There was one for sale on YW a few years ago, but that had inboards.

clay · Post by **clay** » Mar 31st, '08, 14:40

Here is a Bahia Mar with the top cut off.

http://www.sportfishermen.com/board/f29 ... 31214.html

Note the Dual Exausts on Port and Starboard ? Never seen that before.

Here is one that was for sale in Texas a while back it sold, some photos of it also.

http://www.fishing-yachts.com/featured_ ... tible.html

Clay

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Mar 31st, '08, 15:45

The boat from Texas is the one I had seen.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 31st, '08, 17:29

I got one in the shop right now doing a repower with a half tower over the console. House was taken off (burned down) and made into a cuddy cabin.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 31st, '08, 17:35

I saw the Texas boat. It had.......issues. The chine that had been installed was looking pretty ratty. Like it would come off on the next wave. They wanted big money for it, too.

I think it may have been at the same marina as the Hatt that broke in half......

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Mar 31st, '08, 18:42

The CC was in Huston, near the BBQ place Trey took us to, the hatt was in Galviston

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 31st, '08, 19:48

Walter,

For your friend to get an equivalent of a modern centre console, ie being able to walk around all the way around, the issue is going to be access outside the widely spaced engines either side. None of the pictured boats provides that 360 access that would make you put up with a CC and unless you moved the engines inboard, (which would take away one of the great handling attributes of the 31), or made the side deck coamings narrow at that point, I can't see how you could do it.

There is a 31 hull here, ex runabout version, that someone has added a ply & glass s/structure to, (just awful), that I would love to get a hold of and make the world's best CC...except for that issue...and the money of course, always the money.

Nic

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Apr 1st, '08, 00:15

Walter your buddy would be better off getting an old Chris Craft 30 hull and doing this to.
The engines are below the main deck and inboard enough that a walk around could go outside of them and still leave enough room to tilt a deck up. These are the same hulls L&H converted to its popular walk around style. A very good hull and laid out well for a conversion.
No matter what the 31 will give you engine box troubles.

nic · Post by **nic** » Apr 1st, '08, 01:04

Unless you went to a single........then everything is possible!

Hold everything! You got me thinking on this...it is a pet project of mine.

I went and measured Tennessee. We have the 6 cyl Yanmars which are pretty skinny but a good start. The good news is you can do it with twins.

At knee/coaming height you can achieve a 10" clearance from the inside of the coaming to engine box, the key is opening up under the side decks/coamings out to the hull side, like we have on Ten, which gives you 18" clearance at deck level, ideal for your feet...I set the cooler box up 10" from the coaming and I think it would work. A little bit of shaping to the box/centre console cabin etc is the key to achieving the right look.

You'd have to re-locate the water bottle on the stbd eng, but then you could fine tune it with other motors, relocate this and that and maybe get more than 10". I measured the width of a Boston Whaler 2850 CC on the deck amidships...9" only.

A suggestion...how about raising the deck level to the top of the engine boxes, this would give better visibility from the helm, not increase the CG by much (a lot less still than a f/b), and get rid of the awkward up/down configuration at the helm that you have to deal with if you retained the walk-thru between the engines.

I think your friend is truly onto something here...love to see it happen.

Nic

J Graham · Post by **J Graham** » Apr 1st, '08, 07:30

Great idea, single QSC550, prop pocket, bow thruster, elevated helm staton, more fuel, more room. Send a check and the hull to Tony, he'll figure it out.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Apr 1st, '08, 11:19

Or use the single engine to dual prop gearbox that Mastry was offering. Go with one big Yanmar running both props. You could retain the twin engine handling, but would lose the twin engine redundancy. With modern diesels that may not be a big issue. He could then build the center console into the engine box and have plenty of walk around room.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Apr 1st, '08, 17:18

The cc from Tx was owned by O.J. Young. He had his crew build it out of a fbc that caught on fire about 8 years ago. He was going to re-power her with big diesels, but lost interest. He's a nice guy and wouldn't mind someone asking him some questions about this subject. Look up the # for Seabrook Yacht Service in Seabrook Tx.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Apr 1st, '08, 17:51

Agree with Rawleigh on Mastry's single engine with dual prop gearbox.

nic · Post by **nic** » Apr 1st, '08, 19:38

If you went with a big single I would also be looking at a trolling motor, thru a 360 deg retractable bow-thruster. Big sailboats have them, think of it as a mini 'nozzle', like on the ocean going tugs. Run off a generator (hydraulic) or new hi-tech batteries, main or gen powered, you could troll all day long without glazing & smoking and for next to nothing. The extra weight would help too. Seen them fitted to customs patrol boats as "loiter" engines.

Could be the next big thing, twin engines...one big, one small.

Nic

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 1st, '08, 20:26

Walter

If you friend wants an old Chris Hull, there was one for sale in NJ not far from where I keep my boat. It was one of the hulls that they tried to build to compete with the 31. The boat was in rough shape. I doubt it sold but if he is interested I can always see if its still around.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Apr 2nd, '08, 10:24

Nic,

Years ago I had come up with a design for using a 15hp outboard lower unit mounted to a rotating platform driven by hydraulics off a generator pto for an aux drive system on a large single engine trawler.

When not in use it lifted behind the transom using outdrive rams out of the way.

I instead did a hydraulic drive system using the existing prop shaft off the gen pto.

The down side to the Mastry drive system is no independent throttle control for the shafts.

nic · Post by **nic** » Apr 2nd, '08, 11:03

Bruce,

Exactly what you did used to be called "get-homes" on the single engine scooter boats over here. Now that modern diesels don't break down you don't hear of them...with the amount of time spent at low speeds when fishing, or in picnic mode with guests who don't want their hair mussed, it makes sense to have the trolling drive from an auxilliary.

The 31 is the ideal hull for that concept, because of the deep vee and low CG it works as a displacement boat too. The best "displacement" boat in storm conditions I've been in was a 36ft Ray Hunt race hull. I don't know where this RLDT nonsense comes from.

I've decided to start the B31CC project....step one is the lottery ticket.

Nic

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Apr 2nd, '08, 12:09

One idea not mentioned so far, was an idea I had for repowering and eliminating the engine boxes from my Bahia Mar. In simple terms it's diesel-electric. One diesel motor mounted in the belly of the hull, and 2 electric drive motors connected to the shafts. This technology is not new. It has been around for many years. There are claims of less noise, improved economy, comparable performance to standard power installations, and redundancy for "fail safe" get home features. No transmissions are required as the direction of the electric motor determines forward and reverse. Electric motors have the same amount of torque at all rpms and can even operate down to 50 rpm, for those of us that need slow trolling for stripers.

There was a company called FEYS(Fast Electric Yacht Systems), that caught my eye a few years back. Their website no longer seems to function and I called their number and got no answer. That is why I have not listed them below. On the Yanmar site, there is a comparitive diagram showing a conventional and diesel electric set up side by side.

http://www.ossapowerlite.com/
http://www2.sea.siemens.com/Industry+Solutions/Marine/
http://www.yanmar.co.jp/en/marine/marin ... index.html

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Apr 2nd, '08, 13:50

Interesting discussion. I find the beauty of the B31 in its simplicity--its a really great, no frills 31 flybridge or express-type boat. I wanted simple--love my B31. If I wanted a big center console, I'd get one instead of the B31--like a Reg. or Contender, or maybe a SeeVee with a diesel (abolutely something with a little flair in the bow for a cc). I wouldn't spend my $$$ making a B31 other than what it does best. Its not a go-fast, its not a center console....

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Apr 2nd, '08, 15:07

Diesel-electric is nothing new, and if it made sense for boats under 100 feet it would have been done long ago. Why reinvent the wheel? Use the wheel to take you where you want to go......

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 2nd, '08, 17:47

The response to this has been phenominal. Thanks to all of you.
I DO believe that boating will take a big hit this year and that the era of go-fast fishing may be on it's way out thanks to the cost of every kind of fuel.
Although my own experience with center consoles has been a 16'7" Boston Whaler and a 16' Carolina Skiff, I have had conversations with experienced mates who were hired by big CC's for tuna trips out of Montauk who said their 40-50 kt trips for several hours each way was a horrible experience. They were wet, cold (even in warm weather), bone-jarring trips where everyone was huddled behind the console.
I've chartered fly fishing flats boats that ran to their favorite spots at that speed and had to hold my hat, my glasses and a railing even on flat glassy water. Besides the physical discomfort, the three-engined speedsters will give wallets a level of discomfort, too.
The B-31 CC's I've seen all have a splash rail and with the lesser weight might be more comfortable albiet slower than the big multiple outboards. Their known ability to bring up fish via their vibrations/sounds has to be of great value too.
If I get 1.5 mpg @ 20-21 kts with a Sportsfisherman and 210 Cummins, I have to believe that a cut-down one would be a lot lighter and thus be either faster or give you better mpg.
Another thing I've learned (unfortunately) from the orthopedist who replaced my hips- Impact on your joints, spine, knees and hips done in the name of sports or cardio-vascular health catches up to you later in life. Knee and hip replacements are at an all-time high as are spinal surgeries! 50 years of rocking, rolling, pounding and slamming were probably contibutory in my case...but I wouldn't change those years. The fact that I lived through some of the stupid things I've done on the water is in itself a miracle.
Time to slow down and enjoy it more. Somewhat like changing my scotch drinking habits from shots to on the rocks! Walter

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Apr 2nd, '08, 23:23

Mike O.
The 3" spray rails that were mounted on the cc were seperating from the hull amazes me! Salvador, the fiberglass guy that installed them, also did mine. My boat fell about 14' from the cradle lift and the only thing that wasn't affected was the spray rails. Might want to take a second look.

ps 170's in a bahia mar on the gulf coast aren't dogs...just right.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Apr 3rd, '08, 06:51

Timmy, Trey and I looked that boat over pretty well. I recall thinking that it wasn't very well done.....

Perhaps it had simply been abused.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 3rd, '08, 21:14

waterk i there to help you either way a beautiful 30'cc nice engines ,a nice donation to the captain and tom`s transport will have it at your doorstep this week.
i am going to make a attemp at teaching a old dog new tricks.i will be driving the new 34' jupiter in the everglade/jupiter shootout at snug habor montauk sept 3,4,5,6.i want you on the boat on any day that we have 6' waves out at the point.bring a camara or take notes i promise you the 34' jupiter will outperform the 31 bertram at any speed and take a head sea at a cruise speed around 45 in those 6footers. you are the on record angler i will e-mail the captains meeting date.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 3rd, '08, 21:28

Bob- I'm not the one looking to make the 31 a center console, but a friend of mine is. You have one there?
As far as your trip to Montauk for the Jupiter Shootout...Whoopee! Walter

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 3rd, '08, 21:47

yes i do and our tranport people will take it anywhere you want on the island at "our discount".
as far as snug harbor shootout i took the offshore phase and will drive either the 38' jupiter with triple 350hp or the 34' with twin 350hp either was cost you nothing and i promise you will not be bored except you could possibly go to sleep at 50mph. in all my life i have never seen a bottom of a boat that even look remotely like the jupiter.at the oakdale location we have every cc you could imagine from the bottom line contenter to a very impressive intrepid.the rest are about the same;seevee,edgewater,fountain,carraer,wellcraft,whaler/outrage,regulator, all in the 32' or larger for comparison.we sell everyone we get but most of the jupiters are going overseas like sweden,norway.all they want to know is how well in performs in rough water.

nic · Post by **nic** » Apr 3rd, '08, 22:40

Pictures?

Nic

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 4th, '08, 09:51

Fuel cost, fuel cost, fuel cost.

Now what's better: a 31 Bertram that's all original with twin engines that a guy can't afford to run, or a modified single engine / prop pocket that makes 21-23kts burning 2.5 mpg?

I have reconfigured a few boat's and I'm on my second pocket conversion. The 31's hull would do just fine with a shallow pocket. The boats may have come as twins (read 50 cents a gal fuel )but would do well as a single + bow thruster. Keep the engine weight under 3500lbs and the horsepower over 425. The cockpit would be huge. Bahia Mar may be the best model for this conversion.

The engine options are nearly endless.

IMHO I would like to see someone do this, it just may give these boat's a future when fuel hits $7-$10 p/gal. I predict that more and more Sportfishing boats will be offered as singles in the not-so distant future. The amount of people that can pay $1,000-$2,000 to "filler-up" is limited, in fact there are not enough people with those means to support the boating industry as we know it today. If Sportfishing becomes $4,000 P/month for the fuel the exodus will be ugly.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 4th, '08, 11:02

Bob-Any details on the cc I can pass on to my friend? Walter

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 4th, '08, 13:31

walterk the chris craft 30' looks identical to the 31bertram from the gunwale down to the keel.the strakes are the same spacing as the bertram also.as jp pointed out (smart cookie knows his boats) the engines are below deck thus far better suited for a center console conversion.i need some time to take some pictures and post actually you are not interested in the topside anyway.the entry to the v-berth would be the new cuddy cabin and the rest is removed.you would have to extend the cockpit supports to the v-berth entrance and build kill boxes on each side and than a new foward cockpit on top as well as a ready made center console (advailable from krytonite boats built on eastern long island).rewiring,steering and your on your way.this is a ray hunt designed boat and it speaks for inself as well as chris craft fiberglass layup from yesteryear.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Apr 4th, '08, 16:06

Walter

Forgive my boldness but the Bertram 25ft would be ideal for exactly what your buddy is trying to do. There is a 25ft Bertram sedan Cruiser in Lindenhurst for $800 complete.

The great thing about the 25ft Bertram is that a single OB, single I/O or single diesel will easily get 3mpg and up to 50mph depending on power. Depending on budget and taste, you could get it done for starting at 15k.

Here is what I had mind but without the top.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '08, 16:45

waterk,nic this is the number 1 out the mold 2008 jupiter 34'. this boat is the only boat i ever seen outperform the 31 bertram.low speed ,high speed, head seas,beam but not quite following seas.the other boat is a close second but the jupiter is hands down the winner in 6' seas like i said the customer takes one ride out the inlet then ----"were do i sign" and will you take my fountain,etc,etc. don`t forget nic the owner of jupiter was vp of bertram when the 31 was built then black fin pres.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Apr 5th, '08, 19:28

...owner of jupiter, was vp of bertram when the 31 was built, then black fin pres.

Meaning, of course, Carl Herndon. A real piece of work, he is...

He had absolutely no input on the original, (and there's very little change in the new hull models), but did manage to get his foot in the door at the original production shop in West Palm Beach and steal the company from Joe Moran, (about 1997 or 1998), the real designer of the Jupiter 31. Now, Joe was an excellent boat designer & manufacturer, but wasn't a very good businessman, so steeling the company really wasn't too hard...

Our own Pete Fallon was a member of the original Jupiter team & might shed some light on his dealings with Herndon. But then again, Pete's probably more of a gentleman than I am, so maybe he won't...

Herndon was fired from Bertram, for reasons I don't have privy to, and went off to form Blackfin. Did a half assed job of imitating the B31 with some other marine architect.

Others of the original Jupiter team went on to produce the Venture 34.

Just my 10Â¢ worth.

Br,

Patrick

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '08, 21:53

i assumed you would pick up on the fact that i never mention him by name.i am aware of his past record and his treatment of his fellow man.i just stated the fact he was there when the 31 was made and the 32 blackfin is a knock off but 1 foot longer.just by the letter of the law and in this case being fired and then copy (law states as long as it does not fit in 31 bertram mold it is legal)of course if you read between the lines ray hunt was also screwed.i hope from my post i did not indicate that carl design it i want to make that clear however the i stand my ground on the boat exceptional rough water performance.jupiter only makes 60 boats a year and out of that i would imagine 10 -34' jupiters will be made.nothing is overlooked on the boat ever the floor kill boxes have adjustable ss latches.the stand up head is flawless.even if adolf hitler made the boat the fact of the flawless quality still stands.

scot · Post by **scot** » Apr 5th, '08, 22:15

Where's the thru-hull exhaust?

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Apr 6th, '08, 01:33

Guy's,
In can't say anything bad about the original 31 Jupiter's and I,ve never been on the 34. I almost bought the company before Carl Herndon's group did. I ran the factory fishing team boat with my friend Howie Blitstein from 95 to 99, we were charter members of the SKA tournment series, used to fish 26 tournments a year. Went to the SKA National finals 3 years running. We were backed by Merc- Mariner ran carbed twin 225's on hull # 70. The boat was one of the nicest open fishing platforms at that era. Boat was fast 56 mph, could run 30 mph in 4' to 6' seas and not get wet,( I didn't like fishing in foul weather gear when the sun was shining and air temp was in the 80's) caught lot's of fish, but even my cats wouldn't eat kingfish.
As Patrick said the original boat was designed by Joe Moran in 1989, a good designer/builder but a terrible businessman, boat was way ahead of it's nearest competitors in the 90's.
I had a 3 year battle with new owners over money I was owed, that ended in a full jury trial that I finally won. Will not comment on members of the marine industry now build that boat, I still have to work in this business, you don't sh*t where you eat.
I went on to help build a 34' center console called the Legend 34, which alot of the guys saw at the FT. Lauderdale shows back in 2001-2. That boat would and still will out perform anything on the market. 63 mph +, run in 4' to 6' and would not even get spray on your sun glasses at 40 mph, overall 2.2 miles per gallon with Evinrude E-Tech 225 hp 2 strokes, cruising range of almost 600 miles on 300 gallons of gas. 0 to 30 mph in 6 seconds. No longer in production, but we still have the molds.
High speed console boats have there own market, but both Howie and I have retired from competive tournament fishing because of bad knees and back injuries from years of fishing go fast center console boats that spend more time in the air than on top of the water.
I still rate the 31 Bertram #1 for overall fish raising, classic lines and go anywhere and get home in any sea condition, I've owned a 31 Bert for 30 years, mine is 47 years old, how many center console boats can live up to that fact.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Apr 6th, '08, 08:14

Pete Fallon wrote:.
I still rate the 31 Bertram #1 for overall fish raising, classic lines and go anywhere and get home in any sea condition, I've owned a 31 Bert for 30 years, mine is 47 years old, how many center console boats can live up to that fact.

Pete,

I've owned this one for 34 years, it's from 1970, and she'll do what my 31 does, just a little bit faster..
Long story on the history, but she was only 1 of 3 built and the only one left.
For her time, as a fishing boat, she was ahead of her time as well.
I personally feel she is still as good or better than a lot of the newer boats being designed now.
She even sank once and was redone by me and my uncle.
Great handling, canyon range, but a little wet, that's why we added the enclosure.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 6th, '08, 11:32

pete it is nice to here from you again and i wholeheartly agree the best fishing platform is still the 31 bertram especialy for me.i am not a youngster and i like to go in the cabin and make a fresh pot of coffee or hot chocolate at 3am chunking for tuna in the canyon.love sitting on the flybridge on the way to the canyon it gives a good visual for birds,baitballs,and tuna breaking surface,with a ocausional marlin jumping at a baitfish.no doubt about it no fun sitting in the canyon in a cc even the best of the best in creature confort the 35' everglades dx with heating and air conditioning and believe it or not a place for 2 to slept below the deck is still no 31 bert and that baby cost 450 big ones with triple 300 hp 4 strokes.my main contention in making the post was to tell the bertram this is a boat that can cruise at a honest 45 mph without the crew hanging on for dear life as the all the rest of the 22 degree deadrise sharp entry cc owners do on a regular basics in the 5 ' or more seas.
pete the 31 jupiter is now fitted with twin 275hp mercury and goes about 63mph about 2mph less than the donzi, contenter, fountain cc with the same power some times hard to make a comparison because the contender comes with twin 250 yamaha.we have so many trade in`s with all those other cc some smaller upgrading to everglades/jupiter that you can make a pretty good comparison with the boats in the 3 yards.this is my observation over the last two years.i don`t know what the rest of the marina`s are doing but here on L.I we can`t give away a inboard gas or io gas boat.any single engine diesel pilot house boat goes to europe in a week.

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B-31 center console?

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