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Taking Lil Bert and hour and half up the bay tomorrow for winter storage. Its going down to 29 tonight. Should I plug in the block heaters tonight or just an hour early in the morning?

You shouldn't need them, but two hours is usually considered fully heated.

Don't remind me its winter north of Florida.

The roads are clogged, stores mobbed, eateries inundated and I'm getting service calls from.......I shudder just thinking about it......displaced Canadians and New Yorkers.

EEEE Gads.....the humanity of it all...............

If it weren't for people like Mike, Randall, Walter, Brewster and the rest of the gang in NY restoring my faith in people from that state, I would impale myself on a #3 Phillips screwdriver.

BTW, what are block heaters? 83 today.

well bruce...i went fishing in the bay yeaterday...well over 50 degrees.. not to bad...took the inflateable to the ramp at the marina where my bertram lives....didnt see another car or pedestrian on the way there...and there was no one there.....launched and ran around the creek for awhile but that wasnt working so i went out into the bay...ran over to lion head rock which is a semi popular spot......no one was there....fished the northeast coast of springs (by the house we went to ,folks from texas) for two hours and caught a few small bluefish..and headed home..........drove home and put the boat away....the whole afternoon.......never saw another person.......no place is paradise.. but i like solitude and in the off season on the water...you can get that close to home here....and be careful about brandishing that screwdriver....i hear talk about making them illegal

Burrrrrrrrr......its definitely getting to be winter time here in Alabama also......these frigid temperatures are driving me deeper into hibernation
Today we struggled all day long just to get to 72 degrees and tonight we are going all the way down to 38

Seriously..............I do not have block heaters so when it gets cold enough I put a 60 watt light bulb in the engine room but I really do not even worry about it unless it is forcast to go below 20 degrees.

Steve.....like you I am taking DeNada for a 2 hour trip tomorrow.......we are going to the north end of Mobile Bay to a marina then pull her out of the water..........put her on a trailer and bring her to my shop for a complete "Enginal Transplant".............I'm pretty excited

Harry

Bruce,

In San Geminiano, Italy......there's a wonderful little museum of torture.

Put away the silly screwdriver and start thinking more like the creative genius that I know you are....

Speaking as one of those dreaded Canadians, I think it would be more appropriate to use a # 2 robertson, also known as the "red robbie" for the handle colour - nice touch the colour of blood and a canadian screw driver to boot. It'll send everyone for their freud or jung or robertson davies.

I live on the chesapeake as well. I am leaving the boat in and waiting to winterize the engines till the bitter end. I was told it is good for stopping condinsation to leave them on when it stays cold. Does it matter? Should I only turn them on when I know it will be below freezing or when I know I am using the boat.

Thanks

Joe

Best to leave them on, but don't forget to turn them off when you run the engines if you have a genset. The Wolverine pad heaters work great, so I'm told - mine are still in the box, too lazy to put them on so far. Cummins don't like to be started without aux heat below about 50F since they don't have glow plugs.

UV

I use the Wolverine pad heaters on my diesel car and van. They work quite well. Ignore the installation instructions to start, they're a sure fire way to wind up with a rusted out oil pan and/or a blown engine. Proper installation follows:

Go to http://www.wolverineheater.com/index.shtml and buy the right heater for the volume of your oil pan (or one size up).

Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and under 'find products' type 'sheet magnets'. Order enough of part number 3651K3 to cover one side of the heater pad. Cut the magnet to cover the entire pad.

Install the heater to the non holding side of the magnet by following the original installation instructions. I usually put the heater and magnets between two phone books and stand on top while setting off the glue.

Slap the heater onto the oil pan, safely run the electric cord, and you're good to go.

Much easier then the recommended installation, and it's removable. The only down side is that you lose a little efficiency by heating through the magnet, but I've been using this set-up for years and it's effective enough to do the job.

Hey Rocket,

You mis-spelled color in your post.

For what its worth, I always keep my block heaters running (even in the summer).

Prof - thanks for the idea.....I looked at that sheet magnet and it comes in 2" wide.....my 250 watt Wolverines are wider than that as I remember....did you use two strips? Also says max temp is 212F....seems like the pad heater gets hotter than that?

UV

"Hey Rocket,

You mis-spelled color in your post. "

Haha, that is great. Here's a link for the curious and people who don't know how to spell. :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_a ... ifferences

Hmmm I was right. Thanks Face for that interesting tidbit.

Vic

I have the model 40's and have been using them on my autos for years with no problems. I have them on a timer and turn them on at 7:00 AM in the winter. It takes about 1 1/2 magnet strips to cover the model 40.

I emailed Wolverine for temp info, and will let you know what they say. I'll also plug it in and check it with the laser temp sensor (love that thing...). But again, it's never been a problem.

Perfect method for the boat application. You don't have to pull the engine to apply, and the magnet doesn't care about gease. Naturally, the better the contact, the better the heat transfer........but certainly no need to try to get the bottom of your oil pan spotless. Just wipe off enough grime for the pad to sit on.

QED

Thanks Prof.....yeah, no way I was gonna grind the paint off the oil pan even if I could get to it. Your method sounds just right. I plan to put the pads on a line voltage thermostat - already have 120 v. in the stb. motor box, set it to cut on & off at about 60, maybe a little higher since they are supposed to really cut down on the blue Cummins smoke at start up.

UV

Just make sure that you glue the heater to the non-magnetic side of the strip......

Right Thuddddddd?

I rented a car one January in Brainard, Minn. on a business trip...the rent car gal handed me this little block heater that had a magnet on it...."what's that?"..."Mr. Roy, it's a heater you have to put on the oil pan whenever you shut the car off"....."Well, where do I plug it in?"....."You ain't from around here, are you?" "No"....."Don't worry, there are plenty of places to plug it in here in Brainard"....."What happens if I forget to plug it in?" ......."Well, we won't be able to start it unitl June"....

Every parking place in town had a pole like a parking meter with an outlet on it.....coldest I've ever been.....She also showed me 3 pcs. of cardboard in the trunk, each with a temp. scrawled on it with a marks-a-lot....depending on how cold it was gonna get, you put the appropriate cardboard in front of the car radiator to warm the engine enough so the heater in the car would work....them peoples be'z nuts....I just got back from a long walk in shorts & t shirt....

UV

The oil pans on my Cummins engines are made of aluminum......If yours are also aluminum aint no magnet gonna stick to them

Question guys.......I have looked at an engine heater that fit into the water jacket in place of one of the freeze/core plugs..........

Does anyone use this type of block heater?????

DeNada is sitting in the travellift slip at Eastern Shore Marine tonight awaiting a lift and trip to my shop tomorrow morning...........gonna be a busy winter

Harry

Harry,
That style is pretty much whats been used around me. Knock out the freeze plug put in the block heater. 250w 500w whichever you want.
PIA is draining the coolant the actual install is pretty simple, especially when the iron is out of the boat.
Gotta find me one of them aluminum magnets if I want easy.

Vic,

Had they invented aluminum when your engines were made?

Vic
Do you have trouble starting your engines in winter????? Do you really need a block heater to start the Cummins in cold weather????

Harry

damm it jp teach me how to liveline!!! --------------make me a offer --------------------anyways on the right side of the cummins just behind the alternator is a 1" threaded plug locate it --ok now take a small outboard engine fuel tank usually 6gal. and remove the bulb .attach the bulb to the expansion tank hose (the one that is located just under the cap you want to put the cooling system under a slight vacuum now remove the plug and insert the 240volt cummins block heater.plug this into a 110volt outlet at ALL times when the engines are not running, like on the dockside electric.the engine will never smoke unless temp is below 30degrees.the engine compartment will allways be dry,no condensation on the blocks and the 240 volt heaters will last a hundred years.forget that magnet pad s..t that is for novice like me livelining rockfish.

Where is the best place to buy these block heaters? I could wire them right to an open breaker on my AC panel. Might be a good winter project. Started the engines today, starboard ctarted in about 5-10 seconds with a healthy amount of black then blue smoke. Port was a bit stubborn and took about 60 seconds of cranking (not all at once of course) and then had more smoke than the starboard. Once started both engines ran great at the dock. Going for the last ride of the season this weekend, on Sunday in fact. Bertram weather for sure....calling for 40 degrees with rain mixed with freezing rain. Should have had a bridge enclosure made.

--JK

jk the block heater comes with a 6' cord and conventional 3 prong plug.
buy a fs box in pvc from electrical suppy house ,also a "in use cover"this enables you to plug in the block heater without the 110volt outlet being exposed to the engine compartment elements.place the fs box on the bulkhead plug in the block heater and forget about it.the engines fire up in 1/2 a turn,no smoke above 30degrees.engine paint doed not get the little rust spot that develope in big rust!!.incidently i should the reason for putting the coolant under a slight vacuum is so you can remove the THREADED PLUG and install the block heater without the antifreeze pouring out and making a mess.installation of the block heaters about 5 minutes for both.use 1/2"drive and the 6" extension goes directly in the square hole in the plug.i will take a picture this weekend.
ok jp and jk after i put the shad or bunker on the treble hook how can you tell a striper bite from the bank sinker bouncing along the ground????

I've got them in my oil slingin' dump truck motors.

1" npt with a pencil style element, threaded into the water jacket of each head.

I use em when temps go below 60. In years past when I kept the boat in until november, they would heat the entire boat to about 70, if left plugged in, regardless of out side temps.

My boy turned them on last summer by accident, when we came back the next day it was 90 degreess out side and the cabin was at 120!!

Bob,
Its fall leave the livies alone.
Bluefish finally clearing out down here. Put the rubber shad rigs in the water. Bigger the shads bigger the fish. (with the exception of the occasional over ambitious 20 incher)
Moved the boat to the Brielle Yacht Club for a while.
Catch 9 keepers (that's fish over 28" for Jersey) to 20 pounds on Wednesday. Fished all of 2 1/2 hours no more than a 3 mile run. 6" and 9" shad rigs with 6 ounces in front/ 30ft shot of mono and 300ft of wire- old school...

Biggest fish this fall was 46" at 35lbs. Haven't been many bigger than that caught locally. The giants (that's bluefin not the team) rolled through last week don't think any were caught.

Time to go togging now water temps in the high 40's still some bass to be caught. Man I love the fall. If your around Bob we may fish till middle of December if the weather holds out give a call.

I bought my 250 watt Wolverines from Tony Athens at Seaboard Marine in CA (www.sbmar.com). Tony said the 250s are right for the 6B Cummins.

Harry, the Cummins don't have glow plugs and get balky on the start below about 60 degrees.....hard on the starters, batteries, etc.

UV

jp almost forgot the best place to pick up a pair is from seaboard marine 2947w.fifth street oxnard, ca 93030.---(805)382 6287 item; wolverine heater insert 240volt block heater.
mike the reasom i was so adament on not using the pads is the idea off grinding the paint off the bottom of the oil pan is just plain inviding a problem and the other is in a marine application there is a bulge area at the rear of a cummins oil pan.metal will gather in it and be remove when changing the oil thru the tapped threaded boss at the rear of the pan.i know there isn`t anyone on this site who could walk and chew gum at the same time changing the oil on a diesel thru the dipstick.

should have added magnetic pad with hold metal residue at that point through the pan.

here you go jk;

Bob,

The reason for the magnets is to avoid the paint removal, and as you know......many drain plugs are magnetized specifically for the purpose of trapping shavings. You just remove the pads prior to the oil change and any iron should flow out with the oil.

Of course if you have Yanmar 4LP's, you don't need heaters OR glow plugs......just use the cold start circuit below 30 degrees.

The problem with the internal element heaters is galvanic action.....at least at my marina.....

ok mike i will go along with that idea (remove pads start engine wait a hour and let metalic residue go to the magnetic plug)the problem is in marine application the plug would be iron and would self destruck in a boat also defeat the idea of a oil removal system.
mike all cummins engines have a cold start circuit that thru a intake manifold sensor (thermostat) will automatically engage the warm up circuitry.this system preheats the incoming air to the engine until the engine comes to operating temp. then drops out.the block heater is a totally differant aproach.i don`t want to reiterate the former post as to startup benifits.
i just want to mention this one time and will not argue the point.i would go face to face with nigel calder on the use of 110volt on a boat,to make it short and sweet a g.f.c.i. circuit does not use the grounded conductor to operate therefore i am have the confidents no one with be introduce to a electrical shock situation.sorry bruce i purposely isolate the 110 voltage grounded conductor from the boats bonding and therefore mike i do not have a galvanic condition with the block heaters.------------bob

Finally found my Wolverines in a box at the camp....they are model 16s. Pretty sure my Cummins oil pans are steel, but will take a magnet and check next week. The 16s are 3.5 x 4.5" so for two of them I might be a little short with the 2x12" sheet magnet from McMaster....thinking about using two strips and a strip of thin stainless the same thickness between them....what ya'll think?

On the other hand, who needs block heaters....it's 84 in Coonassland today.

UV

UV,

Just buy a 1' x 2' sheet of the stuff....

McMaster-Carr

5756K35
Flexible Magnetic Sheeting Plain Back, 1/32" Thick, 24-3/8" Width
In stock at $3.45 per Ft.

5756K36
Flexible Magnetic Sheeting Plain Back, 1/16" Thick, 24-3/8" Width
In stock at $6.90 per Ft.

Br,

Patrick

Bob,
Keep me out of this.

I had a chance this week to go by Cobra power in Miami and talk to Randy.

Quite the setup. Went thru the engine build area and they had 1/2 dozen go fast engines on stands being built or repaired. Ranged from 900 to 1200hp.

About 500/hr to run. Just engine cost.

Thanks Patrick, I saw that....a little concerned about its max. temp range of 140 F....the Wolverine model 16 pads only weigh 1.1 oz. per my scale, so ain't gonna take much to hold them in place....the 2" strips the Prof is using will hold 54# per foot and are good up to 212 F. My thinking is that having a stainless strip in the mix as a filler between the gap in the magnetic strips would enhance heat transfer, but I'm probably over thinking this whole deal.

Yesterday mid-morning it was kinda cool at the camp, say in the mid 50s but sunny, and the water temp was about 58.....the port engine had been in the shade and the stb box had been in the sun for a while.....cranked the port first, took about 3 or 4 tries to kick it off - instant firing but would quit when the starter was released.....stb fired and ran on the first turn....much more blue smoke from the "cooler" port than the "warm" stb. Both were cranked at idle throttle. When ambient temps are 70+ both fire instantly and don't smoke too bad, altho mechanical Cummins do smoke blue till you get them up to operating temps under load.

I guess the moral is aux. heat to keep the oil thin, etc. makes a lot of good upside on the old Cummins. I'll temp-gun the blocks cold next week, supposed to get cold here during the week, write it down vs. the ambient air & water temps and (assuming I have steel oil pans - Prof, my engines are so old maybe aluminum had not been invented yet) be able to report what temp rise I get with the 250 watt Wolverines. I just hate to hear those starters grind and grind in cold weather, so it seems a no-brainer to use aux heat in moderate climates where we leave them in all year. I agree with the Prof that the pad heaters are probably a better choice than the immersion (house water heater element style) due to the burn out and galvanic corrosion issues.

UV

Went to the boat this morning 28 F**@@ng degress and snow on the boat. Cycled the preheaters twice hit the ignition and off they popped. Left both at 900 for 20 minutes and walked the boat out of the slip in Brielle. We've backed the idle off to 550rpm so its important to let the girls warm up so they don't lope to bad.
Had to walk the boat out of the slip the tide was so low. Moved it back to a safe environment in Pt. Pleasant for the week (Its deer season here in Jersey we're not fisin this week) had to come in to the lagoon at 2600 cause the damn West wind blew all the water out. Plugged in the disc heater and she'll ride the week out there.
Morale of the story, if they aint frozen they'll start.

i just came back from the boat with my son.my son held a sony hand held vcr and i went to the bridge.turn on the key press the button and as soon as my finger came off the buttom the engine was running.a trace of white smoke then gone! a freak cold front came thru last night and it is 22degrees at the boat.we played back the tape and the engines start at 1/4 of a turn 90degrees!!! of the harmonic balencer.between the block heater,4/0 copper cables/odyssey batterys under the constant trucharge 40amp charger,and the preheats in the intake or all of the above you cannot remove your finger from the starter button fast enough.i might add we have to move about 400 boats on to the lift area for tranport or winter storage.close to 60 big block yanmars.they start just as well as the cummins and so do the6Lpa-sta but those 4lha-stp 4cyl start them and run for your life.the boat is totally engulf in black smoke and shaking every nut and bolt loose.i don`t make friends this way just telling you what i saw this week.

i wanted to show you the start up`s on these motors so i downloaded the camcorder in the video folder of the computor but can`t up load to photo bucket to post on this side
jp are you suggesting wirelining,i am all set up with 4 penn 113 hlw,fiberglass rods with carbide rings (star rods) 300' of monel with 50' of mono but i don`t have any experiance other than trolling umbrella rigs this nomally brings in school stripers or bluefish are you actually trolling rubber shad with the foil inside?28" is a keeper in n.y also and there are many people coming in with 35to 40pounders but not me so i figure with a live shad 14" long only a cow would bite.i notice after bringing in a shad the scales are sometimes marred up suggesting a small striper try to swollow it than spit it out.like i said prevously i cannot feel the bite with the sinker on the bottom if i take up a couple of turns i seem to take it out of the strike zone.
bruce i am familar with cobra engines and i am sure he knows all about zull engines but like i said i envy the southeast marine mechanics in the 70`s. that is were the real money was.responsibility yes but for 200,000 a year what the hell.in the bilge at 2am yea but the price was right.no blow boaters " here a check and it`s signed just fill in the numbers"we we selling at 25,000 per but we would get 8 races or 25hours at 7000rpm that was a hell of alot better than the competition and in the go fast not race boats (used only at night --hmmm) you guys we getting that much to install and keep running.

Bob-Sounds like you're set up ok on the wire line stuff. In Montauk our mono leaders are usually 25'. We mark our wires at 50' intervals after the first 100'. I usually mark mine with a single strand of colored telephone wire that I cut from a cable scrap I got from a telephone guy. I put the marks on like a haywire twist you'd use on a wire leader, but do it in both directions. by that I mean about 5 open twists then about 6-7 tight ones on either end of the open one. Clip the wire close and then use a match or a lighter for a few seconds. The insulation warms and sticks to the wire even better. No slipping marks. Figure 10 ft of wire for each foot of depth you want. Troll against the tide when you can. Jigging green Parachutes with a red pork rind works well if you've got jiggers in the cockpit. If you do jig, switch positions on the wire every 20-30 jigs or so, so as not to stress the wire on one spot too much. Contrary to popular belief, I have also done well with Parachutes NOT jigging, but letting them out and leaving the rod in the holder. If you are using wire, use the same lure of the same weight at the same length on both rods while trolling so as to not tangle on turns. Single biggish tubes also work. As far as drifting eels, bunker or shad, if the tide isn't ripping, drop the sinker to the bottom, then reel in a turn or two to help define bites better. If you do feel a bump, drop back a bit, then lift. Any weight, set the hook. If using circle hooks, drop back, lift and reel. You probably know all this, but for whatever it is worth. Catch a big one before you haul. Hopefully, the Herring will be here for you soon. Big bass love them live or dead! Walter

thank you waltek for finding the time to teach myself and any others on this board the "inside track" on wiring bass.i never knew you had to troll against the tide and with 1' for 10' rule i guess the 50' of mono instead of 25' was causing me to scrape bottom and ruin the treble hooks on those big spoons (cripple herring)and come up with sea shells and seaweed on the hook if i took in wire i never get so much as a snapper!never even tried a tube like i said i have alot to learn in retirement.

I've never liked wire line, but in the old days......I used to use lead core line. Much softer than the Monel they use today, and had a better 'feel' to it. It also came color coded, so you knew how much was out.

Where it's at it's best (the lead core) is when you're chunking bunker for Bass and there's a current that forces everyone else to use sinkers. The lead core lets the bait to get down very naturally. You may have to let out more line, but you usually catch more fish. Might work for Tuna chunking too. Walter

Well, Harry was right....the Cummins 6BTAs have aluminum oil pans sono magnets will work on them. I have a flat spot big enough on the port side of the blocks down pretty low so I'm gonna use the magnet and put them there. It's a vertical surface but the sheet magnet the Prof put me on is real strong. Trying to glue them to the bottom of the oil pans would be near impossible without tearing the boat apart.

Oh well......

UV

uv
you need block heaters down there?. i rarly put mine on up here in yankee land. great day to day sun shining no wind and a nice warm 45 degees

Charlie, hear ya.....it was 84 here today and sunny...I took my afternoon walk in shorts & sandals, supposed to be hot thru next week, thank you Al Gore.

It can get in the teens here every decade or so (going on two now, thanks again, Al) so I'd like to have a heat system in place for the engines....like Andre', I tend to worry when I have time on my hands.

I use one of those 100 watt happy air dry deals in the v-berths and leave a fan on in the main cabin to circulate air and keep mildew out, works great, probably enough to handle any freeze potential down here, but shoot, I got the Wolverines from Tony Athens a few years ago (hmmmm, maybe that's why he sold me the glue on vs. the magnetic, he knew I had aluminum pans on my 6BTAs..) and need to hook them up to something.

Anyway, will do something, even if it ain't right.....managed to run my golf cart into one of the pilings under the camp yesterday, hit the right front tire going real slow and broke the steering, steers right but not left, it needs to go to the golf cart doc....an EZGO, think I stripped one side of the rack & pinion in the steering box. Any of you guys know of an easy fix, like a shear pin?

All is well in Coonassland, happy holidays to all the Faithful.

UV