bertram31.com

https://boattest.com/article/video-boat-sinking

I don't know if anyone has already talked about this on here, but i thought it was a good learning experience to pass along in case it hadn't been discussed already.

Aparantly this charter captian sank his boat somehow, with a load of clients on board, and video'd the whole thing, and posted it for the world to see.
I have some opinions on the matter and was curious what others thought.

Id like to think id never be so oblivious, if i were responsible for the personal safety of people on my boat, peticularly if i were a professional charter "captain".
I say "captian" because all i saw, was a boat full of fisherman, and no one was being a captian, everyone was minding the fish, no one was minding the boat.
Yes, the time it took to sink, after he realized it was sinking was very fast.
The time it took him to realize he was sinking was very slow.
He's claiming water on deck is normal after backing down, which it is, but water flying out the scuppers after you're done backing down, and the stern popping up like a cork, is what makes that acceptable.

He literally sat in one spot, idling, still fishing, and then sank.
Hooray, he had a life raft big enough for everyone on board.
Boo, they sat for 12 hours while rescuers searched for them because of no epirb.
Even if the epirb is not required equipment on a commercial vessel, why would you not have one?
My opinion, this guy should be first mate if he can't take his eyes off the fish long enough to operate the boat, and hire a captian to captian the boat. There's more to operating a boat than being able to chase a fish in reverse.
Job 1 is keeping the boat above the water line/safety
Job 2 is making sure everyone gets back in similar condition they departed in.
Job 3 mabe we'll catch a fish while we're out.

Just my 2 cents,
Would love to hear other's

I saw it. I Would like to think I would have more situational awareness than that, but in the heat of the moment with a fish on the line, who knows? You are correct that high-water alarms would have probably saved the boat. I am going to order one today.

I grew up on boats and did a bunch of trips with Patrick and as far back as I remember I was taught by my dad and reminded on each trip "WHAT IF's" and the importance of those reminders.

It became all to real to Pat and I on a trip from Key West to Isla Mujeres . Weather was choppy and some of the boats heading over for sailfish season remained in Key West. We left to head over by ourselves and arrived safely but bounced around a bit especially waiting for the sun to come up to head into port.
Once arrived and checking in with customs, there were rumors going around of a custom sportfish sinking in the gulf. Later that day we got news that the sportfish torpedoed a rogue wave and peeled the cap back, blew out the rear bulkhead and sunk within a few minutes. Captain and mate were lucky to grab a busted surfboard and were found by the debris trail that other boats saw and were picked up about 12 hours later and brought into port.
No amount of safety gear prepares you for that and a emergency locator beacon was still attached to the boat as it went down rendering it useless.

I saw some things over the years that people did and allowed that would convince me not to even put a boat in the water let alone take it out.

Charter boats were the worst of the worst for cutting corners on safety gear and repairs. Amazing more situations like this don't happen.

BTW Trace, situational awareness is spot on. I teach all my students in my advanced gun classes that situational awareness will prevent 99.9% of the shit situations that people get themselves into.

Very scary how fast that thing went to the bottom...

High water alarm would have been helpful (maybe not enough to save the boat tho). I dont know what the casue was for the taking on water...

Crash valves may have helped too.


People ask me to go way off-shore all the time and I am always like NO!... You need to be on your A-game all the time

Not paying attention is the biggest problem here. I am sure there were signs the boat was taking on water. I am sure the bilge pumps were running, that should have been the first clue there was an issue.

Those exhausts had to be underwater and water coming in the scuppers when he was sitting dead in the water. He never noticed.

Stuff happens fast I get it, but bragging about how much water the boat can take on backing down and still stay afloat is nuts. I guess he just took on one wave too many.

Judging by 1. how fast it happened 2. that one engine died and 3. the fact that it took them by surprise, I'd guess that hard backing down caused an exhaust hose connection to come undone....right after it hydrolocked the engine.

A 5 or 6 inch diameter hole can let a shit ton of water in in no time.

Bruce wrote: ↑Aug 1st, '22, 12:21
BTW Trace, situational awareness is spot on. I teach all my students in my advanced gun classes that situational awareness will prevent 99.9% of the shit situations that people get themselves into.

I didn't know you were a gun nut.
I figured everyone on here was into bertrams, but i didn't know how many of them identify as men.

Bruce wrote: ↑Aug 1st, '22, 12:21
It became all to real to Pat and I on a trip from Key West to Isla Mujeres

Im born and raised on the west coast of Florida, and Ive daydreamed about a trip like that since English class in 7th grade, when i had my mind on more important things than English class.
What boat were you on?

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 2nd, '22, 12:44 I didn't know you were a gun nut.
I figured everyone on here was into bertrams, but i didn't know how many of them identify as men.

I think the last time we all checked in we were all men. We are just a sedate group that tries to keep it helping each other with our boats, and every once in a while going off topic. But I bet if you took a survey, 80% of the members probably hunt or have hunted in the past and probably more than that have a gun of some type.

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Aug 2nd, '22, 20:47 I think the last time we all checked in we were all men. We are just a sedate group that tries to keep it helping each other with our boats, and every once in a while going off topic. But I bet if you took a survey, 80% of the members probably hunt or have hunted in the past and probably more than that have a gun of some type.

Just a quip on modern times. No insults intended. More of a illustrating absurdity by being absurd, kind of thing.

I gave my guns up when faced with the legal absurdities of NYC.


That said, I see a high water alarm being installed on my boat.

Having been on boats with high water levels I believe some signs were missed and when noticed, action to correct do not seem to have been taken.
Bilge pumps going on...hearing the pump may be iffy, but hearing the water being pumped I do hear...especially from multiple pumps.
A boat rocks differently when lots of water is taken on.
When running, which they were not, a boat slows, squats, and handles sluggish.

Captain checked motors n boxes...then stopped there? Pullhatches and find where water is coming in from. Exhaust hose...shove a shirt or towel in the port. Shut intake on running motor and slice the line to create a crash pump.
Crew was bailing...fine but they needed to fix the problem first, find and stop or slow water from coming in.


Buying more time, a high water alarm is important as is being observant.

I purchased a couple of 12 V buzzers from amazon. These things are ungodly loud. They are activated by my high water bilge pumps (4700 gph each). These pumps are roughly 1.5" above the standard 2000 gph forward and aft pumps.

Rick

Do you have a link to the buzzers or a name on them?

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 3rd, '22, 00:09 Just a quip on modern times. No insults intended. More of a illustrating absurdity by being absurd, kind of thing.

Not insulted.

Just figured that you have not been hanging out here that much and you probably did not realize how wild and crazy we can get. Take Carl for an example.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 2nd, '22, 12:44 I figured everyone on here was into bertrams, but i didn't know how many of them identify as men.

I just sent the slide from my Hellcat 9mm out for milling to accept at Holosun 507, in anticipation of having my first unrestricted NY license.....

By the way, my pronouns are Bite Me and GFY.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 2nd, '22, 12:55 Im born and raised on the west coast of Florida, and Ive daydreamed about a trip like that since English class in 7th grade, when i had my mind on more important things than English class.
What boat were you on?

48' Ocean SF. Crap SF, but boy did it catch fish. Pat and I stayed a week fishing the afternoon bite, 4 lines out and between sails and mahi they were all loaded all the time. Owners fished for a month before we flew back and brought it home.

mike ohlstein wrote: ↑Aug 3rd, '22, 23:28 By the way, my pronouns are Bite Me and GFY.

Mike,
When I grow up I wanna be you. LOL!

...why grow up?

Mike,the world would be a better place if we used pronouns like that

Oh boy look what we started.

mike ohlstein wrote: ↑Aug 3rd, '22, 23:28 ... my pronouns are Bite Me and GFY.

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Aug 3rd, '22, 21:06 Not insulted.

Just figured that you have not been hanging out here that much and you probably did not realize how wild and crazy we can get. Take Carl for an example.

My boat is on blocks right now. Every time i go to work on it, if its been a while, i go around beating on the sides, stomping on the floor, punching the doors, to see if anything flies out to kill me.
There's almost always wasps, sometimes bees.
I don't know anybody on here personally, but you can get to know people better if you beat their sides a little, and see what flies out.
The more i see, it seems a lot of us have more in common than just boats.
And I've seen pictures of Carl's welding, that man knows how to party.

mike ohlstein wrote: ↑Aug 3rd, '22, 23:28 By the way, my pronouns are Bite Me and GFY.

I had to google GFY, i couldn't figure that one out.
Im assuming that's not " good for you" ?

Either way, i applaud you're non binary identity

Bruce wrote: ↑Aug 4th, '22, 09:15 48' Ocean SF. Crap SF, but boy did it catch fish. Pat and I stayed a week fishing the afternoon bite, 4 lines out and between sails and mahi they were all loaded all the time. Owners fished for a month before we flew back and brought it home.

One of these days, id like to know more of the history about this board and you guys that knew CaptianPat. Ive read a lot of the old stuff, and put some things together, but every once in a while, stuff like this comes out, and makes more questions.
It sounds like you guys were living the dream

Todd

I have been around here since 2006. Yikes never thought about that before.

I started lurking before that, and Bruce will correct me but the original board was called American something if I remember correctly.

Capt. Pat was the owner of the board until he passed and he passed it on to Bruce who has been kind enough to put up with us.

Unfortunately, over time we have lost some great members. Too many to mention, but from time to time their names are mentioned.

Members have gone out of their way to help other members. Mark up in Wisconsin and also Mike the mean team leader can attest to that. We have been there for each other through natural disasters as well as personal issues.

We may RIB each other and joke around for fun but the main rule is no personal attacks. As you have noticed we have a political section and it is a quiet area of the board. Sometimes we venture into those discussions, but we always try to respect each other's opinion.

Bottom line, we are here to help each other, in any we can, boat or no boat. Bertram or no Bertram.

That's us in a nut shell.

You all might not appreciate my choice in football teams but this guy Fitzy does some pretty good comedy about the Pats.

My favorite beer coosie - http://store.townienews.com/gfy-sticker ... ozies.html

Tony Meola wrote: ↑Aug 7th, '22, 00:37 Todd

I have been around here since 2006. Yikes never thought about that before.

I started lurking before that, and Bruce will correct me but the original board was called American something if I remember correctly.

Capt. Pat was the owner of the board until he passed and he passed it on to Bruce who has been kind enough to put up with us.

Unfortunately, over time we have lost some great members. Too many to mention, but from time to time their names are mentioned.

Members have gone out of their way to help other members. Mark up in Wisconsin and also Mike the mean team leader can attest to that. We have been there for each other through natural disasters as well as personal issues.

We may RIB each other and joke around for fun but the main rule is no personal attacks. As you have noticed we have a political section and it is a quiet area of the board. Sometimes we venture into those discussions, but we always try to respect each other's opinion.

Bottom line, we are here to help each other, in any we can, boat or no boat. Bertram or no Bertram.

That's us in a nut shell.

Did Captian Pat restore boats professionally or was it his hobby?
He had a lot of connections in florida but i thought he lived in texas?
Did Bruce work with him, or just buddies?
How did this "core group" get established when they're all over the country?
Is Mike the leader of a team that is mean? Or a team leader, that is mean?
Why is Carl always pleasant to everyone passing by on here?

As long as you know that mike is the leader of the mean team the rest will come in time

The Readers Digest version for others to elaborate on. My kids have no clue what that means, what is the Readers Digest? Kinda gone like the TV Guide.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 9th, '22, 18:48 Did Captian Pat restore boats professionally or was it his hobby?

Professionally worked on and restored. What blows my mind is before that he was a high-end Jeweler, I think the term is Master Goldsmith.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 9th, '22, 18:48 He had a lot of connections in florida but i thought he lived in texas?

I believe born in Texas, lived in Florida for years then moved back to Texas doing one more restoration from there.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 9th, '22, 18:48 Did Bruce work with him, or just buddies?

Both being in the marine business I believe they collaborated on several projects with Bruce doing the motor installs from his business Southeast Marne Services and Captain Patrick doing the design, construction, glasswork, woodwork etc.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 9th, '22, 18:48 How did this "core group" get established when they're all over the country?

I'm not quite sure about the others, for me, my wife found the website and told me about it.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 9th, '22, 18:48 Is Mike the leader of a team that is mean? Or a team leader, that is mean?

Mike is a mean bastard that never has a nice thing to say about anyone or anything, he'd steal candy from a baby and then crush it into the ground.

...and if you believe that, I'd like to talk to you about a bridge I have for sale.

Geebert wrote: ↑Aug 9th, '22, 18:48 Why is Carl always pleasant to everyone passing by on here?

cause he's an idiot.


This is my getaway, my 2 minutes to clear my head during the work day. It's almost like taking a stroll down the dock n B/S'n.
That and I have received lots here and I want to reciprocate when possible.

Carl,

Did you go to a typewriters’ school, because I also write longer posts but it takes me way more than two minutes...

Mike likes to think he is mean! LOL I think of it more as plain spoken!!

I thought he handled it calmly, I’ve never sunk a boat before. But I have been on a boat that hit an unlight buoy that put a soccer ball size hole in the hull. High enough for us to stuff the hole with a life jacket and far enough forward that we could get most of the hole out of the water when we put the boat up on plane.

Got it squared away, put on life jackets and had the coast guard on the radio. I don’t remember the order in which we did it. We had plans of beaching her but ended up having a lift waiting for us at the marina.

Good times, I won’t criticize this poor guy.

Todd

They forgot one thing, when Mike tells you you are banned, just ignore him. Just ask the guys he banned.

I think Carl laid it out perfectly.

Come on now.....

At least I give people one chance. Bruce just tosses guys.

Bottom line is that everyone here is here to help. A little trash talk is encouraged, but make it personal and you're gone.

Now one last thing about Captain Pat. The guy was one of the most talented artisans I've ever met. Everything he touched sparkled. He was smart, he was creative, he was thorough. He didn't suffer fools gladly...... If he thought you were full of shit, he said so. He had the sort of eclectic knowledge that could take you by surprise. Some guys know a lot about one thing. Some guys know a little about a lot of things. Pat knew a lot about a lot of things.

He was a little stand-offish. He gave people the benefit of the doubt and was generally polite, but didn't make friends with everyone he met.

I loved him, I respected him, and I was proud to call him my friend. But what made me most proud was that I believe that he thought of me as his friend. There just aren't many like him.

Mike

Well said. Unfortunately I never got to meet him. Talked with him on the phone but that was about it. He was a class act all the way.

He had the temperment to deal with all of us, and to help us through all of our projects.

Tony the ones of us that met capt pat are all happy to call him a friend,he taught my son and I a great deal and we were honored to know him

Neil

I always regret I never made a gathering he was at. I only made two, one was AC and he did not join us, the other was the last one Bob put together.