What is more valuable - Large cockpit or Helm further back

[ktm_2000]

Hi All,

I came to an inflection point quite a while back where I cut a hole in the deck to let the hoses for my live well pass.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z7v9FiVVzjHCm1gYA
under side- I wrapped the cut in 1708 to strengthen it
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SHgmN6CTCptDSxyDA

That hole has kind of set the position for both the leaning post /live well and combined with that has set the location for the doghouse. I could theoretically patch in that hole and re-cut it further back and shift everything back. I am at a point project wise where I am going to glass the leaning post to the deck, so I've got to make a final decision.

The furthest I could push back the doghouse is related in this image where the hatch to get at the batteries would be right up to the front of the doghouse, the image also shows the hoses going through the deck.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vYRL5XEi3GML9PQp7

This image shows the doghouse in that aft position
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2NT4NtUmmN8WP8Nt7

This image shows what it would look like if I did not change the hose location
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z7v9FiVVzjHCm1gYA

As setup now, 5'6" from transom module to the back edge of the leaning post, the live well sticks 12" inches in to that space
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yqtUaAZwPFWA7Qqv6

So to you all, what is more valuable? More cockpit space or having the helm a little further back for a slightly better ride as well as less distance to travel to get to anything in the cockpit?

[Carl]

Me? I'd move forward for extra room in the cockpit.

But that comes from a 31 owner...after the ride and build of a 31, the major drawing point is the sizable cockpit.
We sacrifice cabin and storage space to have a large back area to fish, hangout, swim or dive.

Just saying you may get biased views here.

[Bruce]

Matt,
Weight distribution is important to remember.
To far forward and the bow plows, to far aft and you need a lot of tab and dolphins on the OB.

Cockpit is fine if your primary is fishing, otherwise cruising people like to sit in front of the house for unobstrutive view.

Have you plotted how much weight you've taken out vs put back and aft, including structure?

[ktm_2000]

Bruce,

I did a quick weight comparison spreadsheet and I am only going to be #400 lighter even though I am dropping 540# of engine weight which is offset by the addition of fuel. The difference in weight is primarily in removing part of the cabin and switching to composites.

See chart image
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2ZfxoMWEPjJ6ggHb8

I am probably going to be quite a bit lighter in the bow area as well as the stern but having I have the fuel tank 20" further back as well as the fulcrum effect of the motor on a bracket may be keep the effective weight on the transom fairly close.

The difference in weight may allow me to have 2 guys be able to go into a transom corner and not take water in the scuppers as it did in the past as well as shifting the livewell to the center of the boat won't cause the boat to wallow coming on plane from too much weight in the stern.

[John Swick]

Hi,

Bruce hit the nail right on the head, it's all about balance.
IMO, original i/o open sport convertibles were stern heavy.
There's a world of difference in ride and handling when weight/COG is moved forward.

Any comfortable seating is valuable space.
From the pic's you've posted, there's seating for two @ the leaning post.....where's everyone else going to sit?
I hope you're planning on mounting helm chairs, or back rests and a cushion on top of the leaning post, cause a straight up leaning post will get tiresome after a couple hours at the helm, especially at trolling speeds.

Good luck with the build.
John

[ktm_2000]

John,

The thought process is there will be some metalwork which will go from the leaning post to the top and will contain rod holders, mounts for deck lights and a seat back.

cheesy drawing, grey area is the backrest - https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCwZDQJUEDMxZSTH6

As for other seating, I am thinking move-able and minimalist. Could be any of a mix of cushions on top of coolers in front of the console and or the motor and I also have 2 of the heavy duty cushioned deck chairs. The combination of all of it could seat 8, the most I would have for a cruise. More likely I would fish with 2 or 3 additional people and wouldn't want to mess with the chairs but would still have coolers for food and drinks, bait and ice.

Having a large cockpit provides the flexibility to do a mix of it.

I am in agreement of your opinion that the boat rides better when weight is moved forward, in the past folks would migrate to the engine cover as a seat and with 2 people sitting and add a 40 gallon livewell to the deck I would need the scuppers plugged and the boat would need to work harder to come on plane.

going over 2-3 chop there would be times the bow would rise up too much going over rather than through waves. It seemed at that point most of the waves would hit the mid section of the boat and you would take kidney punches. If I could get folks to sit at the helm with me or stand in the old drop down area the boat could handle the same weight without a struggle and would ride much flatter and seem nicer. When I made the boat into a CC, I filled in 1/2 the drop down. To offset too much weight aft, I would run with all my gear in the remaining part of the drop down using large coolers in front of the old console with buckets of gear inside. I never liked the drop down, I as well as several guests have fallen down because of it and it has caused some nasty bumps and bruises over the years.

I have made provisions to add weight forward like I did in the past and made a shelf inside the front of the fishbox and plan on storing tools and supplies in plastic ammo cans. I think the level deck with large fishbox and storage is going to be one of the nicest features of my conversion.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CAmrHUZcD9m5LnzbA

[Rocky]

Matt,
I know I can’t speak for Lico but I bet he (and I)
would concentrate to getting attitude of boat and pilot’s comfort as priority on this one. I think about how much time I run boat vs fish and how important comfort is running it especially when conditions aren’t the best.

[Carl]

I didn't think the choice was large cockpit, helm further back or the best place weight/balance wise. Wherever the helm goes, the boat must be balanced correctly.

The real answer is based how you plan to use the boat.

[ktm_2000]

I think what I have setup will work, I've had my helm in roughly the same area for over 10 years and the ride is quite good, the helm doesn't take a lot of spray unless it is nasty out. If in the future folks sit on a cooler just in front of the motor, it would probably get the weight just right versus being too heavy in the past.

The question becomes did I screw up the weight balance all that bad? Here I overlayed my changes to an original Bertram drawing.
The driving position is just in front the range of COG as Bertram has it on their drawing but almost 3' back from where the designed driving position
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4ezRvg6J6B7LwyTP9

Grey line is original cabin bulkhead- moved forward to black line - weight came out of this area

Fuel tank larger, small box in front are batteries

boxes in back are motor and bracket

[ktm_2000]

Carl,

to your point of how I want to use the boat, I will be using the boat for sandbar and towing an inflatable fun with my family we'll see how they like that...

but I mostly expect to fish bringing 1-3 guys. Mostly inshore, live-line bait drifting, vertical jigging, wire line trolling.

I hope to have reliable power and with that start fishing offshore again - between 5-30 miles east of cape cod for bluefin, build up confidence then expand south of Martha's Vineyard from the dumping grounds to the shipping lanes for a mix, mahi, albacore, yellowfin, etc. Maybe if I am lucky get to the canyons by adding 30 gallons above deck tank for reserve fuel and go with a buddy boat - but that is a pipe dream right now.

Any offshore fishing would be predicated on good weather as I wouldn't want to slog it out in a CC even if the boat could handle it, the crew would be miserable.

East of Cape - mix, run and gun cast to small bluefin, troll 5-7 rod spread, live-line bait on 2-3 rods

South of the Vineyard - Troll 7 rod spread, light tackle casting to mahi on any FAD found

The only fishing type I think my plan won't cover well is snapping wire because most of the rod holders are behind the helm by a distance, I was planning on putting a set of forward facing rod holders in front of the helm and I could put a rod in the front and jig while driving.

[Tony Meola]

Matt

It looks like you might have balanced it out but it is hard to tell until it hits the water and you can see how she sits.

If you need extra seating for guest on a Howdy Day, just use Bean Bags.