Curved Windows - Again

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Oct 9th, '20, 09:10

Friends-
Tis the winter project planning season around here and yet again I am looking at my scratched, crazed and hazed corner windows.
I looked back through the older posts and now find that MultiFab Plastics in Dorchester, MA is no longer.
Are there any other recommendations in the North East for fabricators?
Thank you,
Stephan

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 10th, '20, 23:57

I only know of PUT Plastics and Look Out Boat window. One is in Florida and the other North Carolina.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Oct 11th, '20, 18:13

I know Broadus Rose at Lookout Boat Window Frames makes them all the time. Have you called Broadus to give you a price? Unfortunately Bertram didn't make all the windows the same even on the same model and year boat. Neither did Hatteras, they make look the same but they are not. You may need to take the plastic out and ship it to him so that they can make an exact copy. He can tell you over phone. He's moved into a new 18,000 square foot building and shipping isn't a problem. He ships them all over the country and some even out of the country. I live in the area and like to stop by his shop and see what they're working on from time to time.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Oct 12th, '20, 10:54

Thanks for this direction gentlemen.
I remain hopeful that we can identify a vendor in the northeast. If I have any luck I will report back here.
Stephan

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Oct 15th, '20, 06:03

I used a local company in Annapolis. Maritime Plastics. Hopefully there's a local or semi local place that fabricates plastic stuff by you. Try calling a local boat builder like Northcoast. Maybe they'll know

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » May 20th, '22, 19:23

Is there any new information on who makes glass or lexan replacement corner windows?
Seems like there may be a problem with look out boat windows from some of the older posts i was reading.
Im in florida btw.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » May 25th, '22, 13:58

Sadly, Broadus Rose, founder and manager of Lookout Boat Frames, passed away last fall due to complications from Covid. I tried the business telephone #, but it has been disconnected with no forwarding announcement.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » May 25th, '22, 14:25

Tommy wrote: ↑May 25th, '22, 13:58 Sadly, Broadus Rose, founder and manager of Lookout Boat Frames, passed away last fall due to complications from Covid. I tried the business telephone #, but it has been disconnected with no forwarding announcement.

that's terrible, he was a good guy to talk to on the phone, very knowledgeable

last time we needed curved windows made we removed the old ones and local guy made new ones but made them a little larger. took a bit of fitting, sanding, and fiddling with to get right
need to start with a big sheet and really warm it just right to get the shape and the fact that every bertram window is a little different than another makes selling off the shelf replacements difficult

Dug · Post by **Dug** » May 26th, '22, 18:47

Oh no!!!! Godspeed Broadus!!!

Geebert · Post by **Geebert** » May 29th, '22, 17:09

Sorry to hear that.
That's definitely not the update i was expecting.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » May 31st, '22, 19:50

Yes Broadus did die from Covid but his widow is still making parts, windows, all fiberglass windshields etc. and will even installs them if you're willing to bring the boat to Beaufort, NC. All the same guys still work for her. Her number is 252 723 2222, if she doesn't answer leave her a message or text her and she'll call you back. Right after Broadus died there was some confusion because she changed business locations but they are still in the same area with the same guys working. They have the same web site and I'm sure you can contact her through that but I know the 252 723 2222 number is right and works. I was at her shop the first of May and she showed me a complete fiberglass windshield for a Bertram 31, curved windows and all, they had built. Looked good.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Jun 1st, '22, 07:37

thats good to hear, would seem strange the operation just vanished with all those molds

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jun 1st, '22, 15:14

Really nice guy. I spoke to him about the fiberglass window frames. Must have been right before he passed.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jun 1st, '22, 15:41

Buzz,

THANK YOU so much for correcting my error about the status of Lookout Boat Window Frames!! I only knew Broadus casually, and when I Googled the business an old number showed up which was "out of service". And yes, the correct number, as Buzz stated, is (252) 723-2222. I apologize to the Board for post erroneous information.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Jun 1st, '22, 17:57

Rachelle, Broadus's widow had been working with Broadus in the window buisness from the beginning. While Broadus was out selling, talking to customers and working boat shows, she was in the office and helped oversee the production of the windows.When he died see had to step in and take over everything. She's always been there but until now wasn't selling the parts. It's the same parts they have always built.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jun 2nd, '22, 12:41

I spoke to Rachelle this morning and told her that Buzz was keeping the Bertram31 folks informed that Lookout Boat Window Frames was still operational. They have a multitude of window frame molds and are producing the frames as ordered. Thanks again, Buzz.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 17th, '23, 02:16

Tried to get in touch several times by phone and wrote them an Email (not sure info@boatwindowframes.com is still online) but didn't have any reply.
I can tell Broadus was a nice guy, since I saw a couple of videos where he was explaining kindly and in detail, windows replacement on some Hatteras. Sad to hear Covid took away this gentle Guy. RIP

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 17th, '23, 08:47

Funny- I saw this post this morning thinking someone got back to me about the curved windows. I emailed Lookout and Procurve Glass Design about the curved windows last night before leaving work. I have a feeling this is my winter project...

I'd like to see pricing for a set of curved windows compared to what it would take for me to make a heat box to bend my own...UGH. It would be a fun project, but I have no room, and it is a job that needs room.

My dilemma- do I just do the helm on my Express, which is the front two flat panels plus two curved sides or go deeper doing the cabin windows as well. Originally, I was thinking of fiberglassing the front cabin in. But buying 2 sets may offer pricing to sway me. On the other, other hand, two sets of windows is opening a double-size can of worms and I want to be in water for spring...at least by summer.

franmerenda- keep me in the loop if you would. Maybe we can combine orders or at least share info.

Carl

trace elements · Post by **trace elements** » Nov 17th, '23, 09:18

Carl,

I am going to try and bend my own. A sheet of Plexi is $300, and I have bene quoted thousands for replacing the curved windows, so I am going to give it a shot on my own. In fact, I am removing the entire windshield and replacing all of the windows, they are all broken or crazed.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 17th, '23, 11:03

Mr Elements-
Removing the entire frame is my thought as well. The frame will need more attention than making the panels in my opinion. I have a feeling that once removed it may be easier to fabricate new frames...and I know that IS NOT going to be easy. I think this, as I welded and ground a frame years ago for a friend/customer. What a headache...trying to weld corroded aluminum is a 1/2 step forward and 3 steps back. Each spot was ground out making clean as possible...add some heat and watch the area disappear as there was corrosion under. Build up and grind down, machine flat when possible.
Ugh...it was my come in early project that became come in early n work on it, stay late and work on it, come in on weekends as he wanted to put boat back in water. I had a ton of hours on it and I was never was happy with the results...he on the other hand flipped out as he thought it would never look so good.
I think my saving grace this go round will be I have a great powder coater I work with. I think if I get the structure good, the little imperfections can be filled and coated.

Bending window panels...I have ideas, just need to see how they pan out in the real world.

What kills me is when I bought the boat the prior steward had found a place that made n had at them at $1200 for the pair. By the time I figured out the windows really needed to be replaced the number just rang n rang. Lifes lost opportunities...then again who knew we'd still have the boat 30 years later.

Let me know how you make out with the removal of frames, panels and bending, I'll do the same.

Carl

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 17th, '23, 22:29

UGH! Windows

I think all of us have windows we need to address. I would love to redo mine. I want to glass in the front, the wife says no. Then I figure go the way Jerry Santiago with Zero Cavity went. Just make them all permanent.

The side window in the Head is cracked and will need to be replaced. I just haven't figured out how to get it out without creating a disaster.

As far as frames, there are instructions that Capt. Pat put out there.

https://bertram31.com/proj/tips/windows/index.html

https://bertram31.com/proj/tips/window.htm

https://bertram31.com/parts/side_windows/index.html

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Nov 18th, '23, 08:23

Tony I have a simple side window frame design that I used and I think it worked out pretty well and I think looks pretty good.The windows will be fixed though. I just open the bow hatch and back door and the wind keeps the cabin bearable on those hot days. I liked the windows in the bow also but changing the layout of my cabin gave me plenty of light even with the brow glassed in. I will look for some pictures of side window frames.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 18th, '23, 09:19

IF-

If you’re ok using Polycarbonate (Lexan, Makralon) changing the side windows is not difficult and allows you to slide them open.

1- buy the polycarbonate
2- remove old glass being careful TO CRACK IT. It’s tough double glass with plastic sheet between so it takes a lot to break it and remove. I kept it whole, broken but whole in that I used the broken window as my template. The stuff cuts ez on table saw, final trim was sanded off.

I did however make windows a 1/4” shorter in height as they need to be bent along the length to fit in the track, that part is a two people’s (not two person) job. I also made about an 1-1/2” longer for additional overlap to add some strength in middle.

I like the windows dark so went with dark grey, aka- limo tint.
If going poly- route, get with UV protection. In either case, it’s poly n will break down over time.

Yesterday after winterizing ( ugh, got a call early afternoon bluefin were chasing bunker by Rockaway( 1/2 hr ride). I kinda thought about putting boat back in….

Whoops…. Off track…. after winterizing, I looked at the helm curved window frame… the shiny SS screws yelled out to me “ give us a try, we’ll come right out, make room in Jeep for the panels” So I broke out the tools and gave it a shot. I tried one, two, three screws… and not one budged. I did manage to strip the heads. The screws laughed n said “ SIKE”

I”l give heat in vise grips a shot, then drill the heads off. That will be my point of no return.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 18th, '23, 11:39

Carl wrote: ↑Nov 17th, '23, 08:47 Funny- I saw this post this morning thinking someone got back to me about the curved windows. I emailed Lookout and Procurve Glass Design about the curved windows last night before leaving work. I have a feeling this is my winter project...

I'd like to see pricing for a set of curved windows compared to what it would take for me to make a heat box to bend my own...UGH. It would be a fun project, but I have no room, and it is a job that needs room.

My dilemma- do I just do the helm on my Express, which is the front two flat panels plus two curved sides or go deeper doing the cabin windows as well. Originally, I was thinking of fiberglassing the front cabin in. But buying 2 sets may offer pricing to sway me. On the other, other hand, two sets of windows is opening a double-size can of worms and I want to be in water for spring...at least by summer.

franmerenda- keep me in the loop if you would. Maybe we can combine orders or at least share info.

Carl

Carl, first thing, let me say I've been lurking more than once this intriguing forum and your wise posts, with peculiar attention.

I finally and hopefully managed to be under contract for a 31 SportFish here in my Country (I actually tried previously, with all of my efforts, to purchasing Peggy Sue In Sweden, but that's another story) and way before closing my deal, I was seeking for some alternative to get rid of the endemic leakage and corrosion of aluminum windows.
I'm not aiming to go for a 'Convertible' with no front glasses, while I would like to get as much as natural light, inside the cabin.
One of personal dreamboats is the 31SF owned by badcompanyfishingadventures.com, aside the head with no window stern-side ; there's a nice short reel of the boat on Youtube.

Back to windows, I already got in touch with Steve Lerner at Procurve, who was more than kind and available; what I understood is that all the glasses templates of the 31 restomod showed in Newport last year, belong to Cooley Marine in Connecticut. Beside that, there is an insane amount of labor, as far as structure manufacturing; can't even imagine the figures/costs (I have lots of pictures but unfortunately I'm not capable to post them).
Apart from the fact (IMHO), the boat is astonishing, but I can't find the DNA of the iconic 31 Bertram in it.

This brought me to my best two windows alternatives, which are High Tide Marine and Lookout Boat Windows.
The first ones are more than nice but very expensive (also because old glasses don't fit in); the second ones are "The State of the Art" to me. I have a couple of pictures from their website (which is offline now) and they seem flawlessness in terms of shape, proportions and details. They even have internal U shaped trim moldings for glasses.
I know Lookout is/was a family business and perhaps they are not running it anymore, but it could be more than worth trying to understand if is there any chance to have them molded once again, even without glasses. If anybody has some direct contact, I'll be grateful!

francesco

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 18th, '23, 21:20

https://www.updplastics.com/windshields ... s/bertram/

Never talked with these guys but they seem to have the windows for the 25 and 28. They might be worth a try.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 18th, '23, 21:24

Snipe wrote: ↑Nov 18th, '23, 08:23 Tony I have a simple side window frame design that I used and I think it worked out pretty well and I think looks pretty good.The windows will be fixed though. I just open the bow hatch and back door and the wind keeps the cabin bearable on those hot days. I liked the windows in the bow also but changing the layout of my cabin gave me plenty of light even with the brow glassed in. I will look for some pictures of side window frames.

Jason

I think a number of the guys would find how you did your frames useful.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 20th, '23, 12:55

Francesco

Don't lurk, get involved to keep this sandbox going. It is of little help if the same people with the same ideas trade them back n forth. Fresh ideas and opinions are always needed in my opinion.

So outside the US, well that's not great for us to put a package deal together...lol. Then again you never know...my old gas motors were bought and shipped to Germany. Francesco, can I assume you are from Italy?

Without speaking to anyone, I have issues before starting with either. Procurve is using glass which is not going to tweak into an existing frame like poly- will. Meaning I am making a custom mount. Luckily I only need to get close on the base to fit on the fiberglass helm area, the top of the glass window needs a method of securing the canvas and clear plastic. But going that route the matching cabin and helm windows will be very different and need to be addressed.
High Tide fiberglass frame I think I could just remove my old helm windshield and install there's. BUT, it still needs the glass n plastic panels...and I really would like to see the windshield open. Its a dated design, but I do like much better than closed in, salty hard to see out window when I need to see. When I need to see, I like to open it up. Maybe I could modify, adding support n hinge. But that much work I might as well make my own....plus the helm and cabin windows will be very different so the cabin needs to be addressed.

I'll call the place Tony mentioned...but the more I think about it, I think the toughest part of removing and making the curved sections myself would be refurbishing the old alum frames. I think I'll keep following up and keep working on removing the window panels, then if that goes ok, continue on with working on frames. No decisions yet, just sorting out ideas.

Good luck with your purchase, I have my fingers crossed for you. And remember, if there are no pictures, it didn't happen...LOL

Amberjack · Post by **Amberjack** » Nov 21st, '23, 19:25

Carl wrote: ↑Nov 18th, '23, 09:19
If going poly- route, get with UV protection. In either case, it’s poly n will break down over time.

I tried one, two, three screws… and not one budged. I did manage to strip the heads. The screws laughed n said “ SIKE”

I”l give heat in vise grips a shot, then drill the heads off. That will be my point of no return.

Thanks Carl, I guess, for reminding me to reinstall the canvas cover over the plexiglass curved corners that I replaced about 20 years ago and have been zealously protecting ever since. Darn, I was really liking the afternoon sun shining into the salon on a winter day.

And my two bits on the screw removal, don’t forget the penetrating oil. It works well for me to heat, apply Blaster, let sit for a couple days and then repeat, sometimes two or three cycles.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 22nd, '23, 09:58

Amberjack wrote: ↑Nov 21st, '23, 19:25 curved corners that I replaced about 20 years ago and have been zealously protecting ever since.

I kick myself, the former steward had a line on a place that had made the curved panels when I bought the boat. By the time I got around to thinking about replacing the company closed up.

Amberjack wrote: ↑Nov 21st, '23, 19:25 And my two bits on the screw removal, don’t forget the penetrating oil. It works well for me to heat, apply Blaster, let sit for a couple days and then repeat, sometimes two or three cycles.

Good call! I'll wire brush them and give PB Blaster a try. The down side of my helm windows is they are outside exposed to the elements on both sides. Still worth a try, thanks.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 22nd, '23, 11:00

Carl wrote: ↑Nov 20th, '23, 12:55 Francesco

So outside the US, well that's not great for us to put a package deal together...lol. Then again you never know...my old gas motors were bought and shipped to Germany. Francesco, can I assume you are from Italy?

Good luck with your purchase, I have my fingers crossed for you. And remember, if there are no pictures, it didn't happen...LOL

Carl

YES! "Sono Italiano"

This is the boat I just bought:

This is the layout I'm dreaming to convert mine into:

And this is the kind of frame I'm dreaming to find:

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 22nd, '23, 11:48

Francesco,

Congratulations on your purchase of the Best Boat Ever Built!

I love the open layout your dreaming of. Removing that forward ledge into V-berth opens the place up. The frames you may be dreaming awhile as those I believe are not stock Bertram Frames. But you never know, someone may have purchased and decided against installing. That said, you can always make your dreams come true with a little elbow grease and a couple gallons of resin n fiberglass cloth. Or a pile of money, that stuff I hear can also do wonders in making stuff ahppen, turn dreams into reality.

For now, enjoy and access the projects that go on the To Do, and the Wish list.

She looks sharp! Best of luck with her!

Carl

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Nov 22nd, '23, 11:56

Just my experience - but PB Blaster works better for control cables (transmission and engine (teleflex style) controls) Kroil works better at breaking down corrosion on fastners.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 22nd, '23, 12:50

I've been meaning to give that stuff a try for years. I'll have to be on the lookout for it again. Thanks

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 23rd, '23, 02:26

Carl wrote: ↑Nov 22nd, '23, 11:48 Francesco,

Congratulations on your purchase of the Best Boat Ever Built!

I love the open layout your dreaming of. Removing that forward ledge into V-berth opens the place up. The frames you may be dreaming awhile as those I believe are not stock Bertram Frames. But you never know, someone may have purchased and decided against installing. That said, you can always make your dreams come true with a little elbow grease and a couple gallons of resin n fiberglass cloth. Or a pile of money, that stuff I hear can also do wonders in making stuff ahppen, turn dreams into reality.

For now, enjoy and access the projects that go on the To Do, and the Wish list.

She looks sharp! Best of luck with her!

Carl

Carl,

Thank you for your kind words.
Have tons of elbow grease here.
These days, to make boat dreams come true with money, a pile is not enough; you'd need an Everest of Benjamins.

francesco

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 23rd, '23, 08:46

franzmerenda wrote: ↑Nov 23rd, '23, 02:26
These days, to make boat dreams come true with money, a pile is not enough; you'd need an Everest of Benjamins.

francesco

Very true, a stack of money does not go as far as it used to.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 24th, '23, 00:42

Francesco hi,

The table and double bench inside, will always be miserable to sit...perhaps you could consider putting a longitudinal settee or bed with a folding or removable table in-front. In that way you also have an extra bed. Make sure it’s 2 meters though!
Good luck!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 24th, '23, 05:43

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 24th, '23, 00:42 Francesco hi,

The table and double bench inside, will always be miserable to sit...perhaps you could consider putting a longitudinal settee or bed with a folding or removable table in-front. In that way you also have an extra bed. Make sure it’s 2 meters though!
Good luck!

Yannis,

I agree 100%.

That's why I'm thinking to get rid of the backrest of forward bench as in the rendering (which is actually of a Magnum 44 restored here in Italy) and a lifting table pedestal is in the bucklist

Also because we're struggling to put the head portside, as forward as possible, in order to preserve the seamless continuity between cockpit and cabin (lowering the decking of the cabin as well)

Thank you,

francesco

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 24th, '23, 11:00

How long is it from the center forward (the anchor bulkhead) to the center of where would be the door in a 31?

Also, instead of a pedestal you may consider a Lagun swivel plus the table surface of your choice...very practical and it either swivels away or is completely removed without a hole on the sole.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 26th, '23, 05:43

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 24th, '23, 11:00 How long is it from the center forward (the anchor bulkhead) to the center of where would be the door in a 31?

Also, instead of a pedestal you may consider a Lagun swivel plus the table surface of your choice...very practical and it either swivels away or is completely removed without a hole on the sole.

Yannis,

There's no room to keep the left berth as it is; we'll have to re-arrange it as in the picture

As far as table pedestal, if not a lifting SS with leg possibly lowering down under the dinette decking (as it has been made in the new 35), we would go for a contemporary version of the original pedestal, which is by far the most comfortable solution for legs room when seated.

francesco

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 28th, '23, 02:56

Francesco,

If you plan to lower the cabin sole and choose to make a longitudinal settee/bed, make sure you leave adequate "not lowered" sole space in front of the settee so that sitting people can rest their feet, otherwise they will be hanging without ever reaching the floor!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 28th, '23, 07:08

Hmm, that is an interesting thought over a V-berth configuration.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 28th, '23, 22:00

Carl,

It's the same as in the new 35.
However, if destined to normal people, this double bed has to be 2m long. There is no room for diagonal sleeping and it's tight for two people especially when it's hot!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 29th, '23, 01:48

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 28th, '23, 02:56 Francesco,

If you plan to lower the cabin sole and choose to make a longitudinal settee/bed, make sure you leave adequate "not lowered" sole space in front of the settee so that sitting people can rest their feet, otherwise they will be hanging without ever reaching the floor!

Yannis,

This is the basic idea for the dinette and a similar step is meant to be made on starboard side

This will also allow table pedestal to be lowered underneath the step for dinette/berth use and, storage room

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 29th, '23, 04:36

Francesco,

Fair enough! I though you may go the settee route, but if this fits your needs better go for it.

I have a question: When the table surface will be used as a table, it will be like in the photo. If and when it will be used as a bed, it will be lowered at the seat level and will be covered with cushions. So, when is it going to be stowed away underneath the step? Thanks.

Last time I was in a 31 I remember that the length of this dinette was around 1,70-1,80m. In my 28 it was also that short, so I demolished the hanging locker and gave length to the settee for a normal 2m mattress.

If you could fit the galley on the same side as the head, you could simplify all tubes and water supply; all on the same side...
Then, on starboard you can have the longitudinal settee and in an uninterrupted fashion continue with the v berth as you have shown before.
In that way you obtain the view you need, as well as you can better accommodate a taller person up front.
Just an idea !
Good luck!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 29th, '23, 06:00

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 29th, '23, 04:36

If you could fit the galley on the same side as the head, you could simplify all tubes and water supply; all on the same side...
Then, on starboard you can have the longitudinal settee and in an uninterrupted fashion continue with the v berth as you have shown before.
In that way you obtain the view you need, as well as you can better accommodate a taller person up front.
Just an idea !
Good luck!

Yannis,

That's a good question:
If we'll succeed to have the head in the gap between the forward bench and the front window, assuming the decking will be lower, berth length could be some 6'-6'2" without backrests; if head won't let plenty of height/volume (wish to have some stall shower), the sole alternative will be switching starboard to port, with a reversible forward bench, since we would like to keep the helm station; it's a kind of inches challenge

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 29th, '23, 14:52

My 28 did not have a lower station and I never missed it.
You said you are in Italy, are you sure you need a lower station in the Med?
By the way, where in Italy are you? Thanks.

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Nov 30th, '23, 02:57

Yannis wrote: ↑Nov 29th, '23, 14:52 My 28 did not have a lower station and I never missed it.
You said you are in Italy, are you sure you need a lower station in the Med?
By the way, where in Italy are you? Thanks.

Yannis,

I fish all year round and keep the boat in La Spezia (Cinque Terre).
Winter season is quite chilling there and, as far as I understood, 31's Achille's heel is the wet ride.
I'm not thinking to have a hard-top with an enclosure (believe it or not we don't have here anything similar to American aluminum alloy, besides very, very few welders capable to weld TIG properly).
And, even though I read you almost see nothing riding the boat at lower station, seeing less and dry is better than seeing more but soaked.

Amberjack · Post by **Amberjack** » Nov 30th, '23, 15:21

Francesco-You will be driving at 7 knots or less when at the lower helm station. The bow lifts as the boat steps up to a plane and stays up at speed. You won't see anything in front of the boat. I tried it once, its terrifying.

Amberjack had a lower helm which I removed after 25 years. I used it twice, once in extremely heavy rain and once during lightning strikes. The rest of the time, heavy foul weather gear. Now I have an autopilot remote for those situations.

You can protect the bridge helm a bit more by fabricating a new windscreen. We raised and angled up the windscreen on Amberjack so at speed the wind now and some of the spray passes overhead. Yeah, spray passing overhead.. life on a Bertram 31 can be an adventure.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 30th, '23, 16:45

Haha, those 31 owners with their wet rides...hahaha

Francesco, io sono in Grecia, ad Atene, la mia barca si trove a Glyfada.
Bella La Spezia!

franzmerenda · Post by **franzmerenda** » Dec 1st, '23, 07:35

Amberjack wrote: ↑Nov 30th, '23, 15:21 Francesco-You will be driving at 7 knots or less when at the lower helm station. The bow lifts as the boat steps up to a plane and stays up at speed. You won't see anything in front of the boat. I tried it once, its terrifying.

Amberjack had a lower helm which I removed after 25 years. I used it twice, once in extremely heavy rain and once during lightning strikes. The rest of the time, heavy foul weather gear. Now I have an autopilot remote for those situations.

You can protect the bridge helm a bit more by fabricating a new windscreen. We raised and angled up the windscreen on Amberjack so at speed the wind now and some of the spray passes overhead. Yeah, spray passing overhead.. life on a Bertram 31 can be an adventure.

Doug,

Actually it will be more than tricky keeping the lower helm station, since I wish to have a proper head, preferably with stall shower, while I don't want to loose the seamless style of SF, which looks like a veranda with a terrace at sea level; this means no head as in FBC.
Keeping lower helm/seat, collides also with the need of having a proper second berth, with benches as spaced as possible (they are already too close as it is), assuming the main berth will be a shrunk version of the new 35 one and, not having a second berth is out of question.
Meanwhile, I fish during wintertime and I'm not the tough guy I used to be once; even though I'd love to have a nice aluminum hardtop with thick Strataglass enclosure, I do hate the Italian version of SS HTs (those thin stainless steel legs which appear as broomsticks).