bertram31.com

I'm going to replace my cockpit panels. I went back and read past posts on the topic and I'm probably going to go with the 1/8" Starboard for the new panels. I would like to cut a door into these panels and use the space behind them for gaffs and dock hooks. Can I just cut a door out of the starboard and install hinges and latches to make this happen, or will I have to use a thicker star board or some other sort of material to fabricate this?

Thanks,

JR

Also, any suggestions on the type of hinges and latches to use for this application? Have any of you used a Marine grade stainless gas shock arm to ease these cockpit panel doors open and closed?

Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Made-Prod ... 7886&psc=1

I have removed all panels. I have put two teak stripes all around, behind which I stack everything. I don’t know if the 31 is different from the 28 in the side space, but I certainly can fit longer objects and do not have to look for missing items inside a side box.

Hi Yannis,

Thanks for the reply! I've been looking at lots of cockpit set ups regarding the side panels or not. I've seen beautiful examples of both. If your set up is as nice as the rest of your boat, I'm sure its well done and functional. If its not too much of a project to fabricate cockpit panels with doors in them for storage, I think I'll use the old panels as a template and create new ones out of star board. It would be nice to have gaffs, boat hooks harpoon and mops behind a panel.

If any of you guys have a cool cockpit panel setup that works for you, post a pic or two here.

JR

Jack,

Thanks for the kind words.

I doubt that you will be able to put a broom inside a side panel...and still be able to retrieve it after a wavy trip when everything would be mixed up in there.
Let me see where I have pics of my setup, as Im still in the islands and have difficulty in posting new pics.

Yannis,

No brooms on my boat

I do carry a small mop/brush on an adjustable shaft. Its great for clean up after a bloody tuna or wahoo.

I look forward to the pic's!

I've seen some pretty slick set ups on Bertram 31's behind the cockpit panels. Very functional and organized for gaff's ect... They usually use a series of rod holders and bungees to keep things in place and organized. It's a great idea, because it neatly stores all of these items, and frees up space for other important gear.

JR

JR,

Think those gas struts would be a tricky engineering feat with operational space given the shallow setback.........you'd be best to either use thicker starboard, say 1/2", for the main panels and rebate the edges for a flush fitting opening panel section out of 1/4" starboard.......you can engineer mounts/fasteners via the hidden side of the panels [outboard gunnel sides]........if memory serves I think 1/4" is the thinnest that starboard comes unless a recent addition by them of 1/8".

Jack

Why not go with AZAK. Easier to find and a little less expensive..

I would consider other material than starboard, which is very heavy and holds dirt over time and does not hold paint.

I am not sure the material that was used on mine as it was over 20 years ago-----some type of fiberglass or composite----they were painted with Imron to match my boat.

Jack,

You can see some pics, although not very explicit, in the thread Sum pics, where I have put pics of last summer. I don't have anything better until I return at the end of the month, when Ill be able to post new ones shot specifically for this matter.
Sorry.

I used PVC foam board for mine.

Light, easy to cut, and hold paint reasonably well. And, because they have a little bit of give to them, basically no rattling.

One part cheap poly paint lasted about 10 years.

I thought I had a good result with painting my cockpit panels with Interlux Pre Kote primer and Brightside single part paint.
That was until I sprayed them with some Rol-Off to get some dried stuff. Now I find some bubbling of the paint.
Maybe better to stick with solid colored boards or two part paints...
Best,
Stephan

Thanks for all of the responses! Tony, is the Azek pretty much the same material as the Star board? I used Azek trim for the old cockpit panels when I bought the boat and I've been happy with the material. Something else that I picked up from the 28 Bertram cockpit panel thread was a material that Captain Patrick recommended called Versa Board. When I google this, I mostly get an inflatable SUP, but this may be the material he was talking about: https://www.timberwood.com.au/products/versaboard.html
This seems to be an Australian website. Would this material or something similar be available in the U.S.?

Do guys paint the Azek/Starboard when used as material for cockpit panels, or just keep them as is? I know I've seen quite a few posts on the subject here in the past. Craig Mac suggested that the Starboard holds dirt and is not a good material to paint.

Preston, good point, I'm thinking if I'm going to cut a door in the panels to store gaffs and other items, it would be a good idea to go with a thicker material.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions and comments! Keep em coming. Anybody have pics of panels that they fabricated and installed?

JR

P.S. Yannis, I couldn't get your pics to come up, all is get is a black screen. Probably user error on my part.

I like starboard for cutting boards.

When made correctly the stuff does look great for cabinets, draw faces, steps, platforms. When new it has that crisp color with easily washable texture. It holds screws well, machines nice with sharp tools. Sanding and filing...just don't do it.

Downside is the stuff is kinda heavy and sags if not well supported, just keep in mind when designing. The stuff grows in the heat, so watch your clearances. If you want to use adhesives it used to be a challenge. You could goop some stuff up in a corner and it stayed...but did not hold well. That may have changed over the years. But again, design it right and it worked out fine.

My biggest issue is "when new". When new it looks great, cleans great. Exposed items seem to weather or maybe it's the cleaners used...after time the crisp color goes away, dirt starts to stick, scrubbing never gets it like new again.

you dont want starboard, besides being ugly it warps, doesnt hold adhesives, resin, paint, doesnt hold screws well either

Komacel is availible in 10' sheets, you can get the 2 side panels from one sheet another for across the transom. I THINK ( would have to double check ) you may be able to get the engine boards from the left over
its easy to cut, glue, you can paint it or just install it as-is because its UV stable
you can fiberglass onto it if you like

Raybo which manufacturer are those decks? i have the same ones and looking to maybe replace them

I used 1/4 inch Starboard in seafoam for my panels--after 9 years they look the same as the day I installed them--dirt and stains just do not seem to adhere to the stuff, including squid ink and tuna blood. It is heavy. On my 28 I have oblong openings on each side of the cockpit without any doors, which I copied from the original equipment panels. It provides plenty of room to store sinkers, the washdown hose, a short gaff, dock lines, etc. I decided against installing doors when I replaced them, because when a door is open it extends into the cockpit and takes up room, and I felt it was liable to get stepped on and broken, especially when fighting a fish. I can't seem to master posting pictures, but if you send a pm I will email you some.

Raybo,

Thanks for the Komacel suggestion. I've never heard of that material, but it looks very nice in your pictures. Can you pass along a good place to buy these Komacel sheets?

I have a couple more questions for you. I really like the two back windows and back door window in the boat in your pics. Is that something you fabricate yourself, or are they available to order?

Also, I really like your cowl vents. Did you chrome the original vents, or are those new vents?

Many Thanks for posting the pictures and thanks again for all of the great info!

JR

JR,

PVC foam board can be found in multiple sizes, colours, and thickness, under many name brands.
I've used it in multiple non structural projects including side panel on a B25 restoration I did 15+yrs ago that hasn't changed colour or warped.

I get a local sign making shop to order it in for me when I need it.

Regards,
John

Sign shop supply , or just ask a sign shop to avoid excessive truck freight costs
The 1/2” thickness is good
There are many pvc boards , some scratch really easy which is why I prefer that stuff. It’s pretty robust you can even polish it if you like.

Those panels are as-is, no paint on them , not polished.

Windows were obtained before we got the boat, any hardware is original pieces that we had rechromed

Raybo/John,

Thanks for the information on the Komacel. There is a company in Huntsville Alabama that represents the European company that manufactures Komacel. I emailed them to try to find a local distributor, and I will see if I can locate a local sign shop that carries Komacel as well.

John, do you remember the brand of the material that you used for the cockpit panels? Was it Komacel?

JR

I just had mine replaced while doing the deck and repower. They made them out of fiberglass and i think gelcoat. They turned out pretty good i think. Granted they have a big table that they did the lay up on.

Interesting idea re the Kormacel. The pictures that Raybo posted really make a strong argument in favor of using Kormacel. I currently have Azek panels and I'll tell you they are pain to get clean, especially if you don't have a full morning cover. Several of my panels are dirty and I've been unsuccessful in getting stains off of them.

Raybo you mentioned that the Kormacel can be glassed or painted over, with the cost of a 10 foot sheet what would be the benefit to doing this? If you needed to paint or wanted to glass them wouldn't it be more cost effective to use marine plywood and then glass over it for the panels?

Looking at plans for a redo of my helm and cockpit this winter on my Bahia so the topic is helpful. Thanks.

some may want to paint to match the boat's finish exactly

the benefit over glassing over wood or coosa is saving the fairing and finish time
if you have a large table to glass on you would still spend as much if not more money to make the panels
if you made them out of wood you would want to seal all the edges or at least the one sitting on the deck all the time, these wont rot

in regards to glassing onto them- you can use these for all different purposes or lets say you wanted to glass a bracket to the backside for purpose of the cockpit panels or even to use them for a different purpose

for me I can buy a sheet, have it cut and installed in under a day and save the customers money.very easy to cut, sand/shape with most basic of tools the cordless saw works great for this stuff

JR,
It's Komacel or Komatex.
Go to a sign shop, they should have samples that you can touch and feel.
I've only used white, but I'm pretty sure the colour is right in the plastic so scratches really aren't an issue.
I used 3/8" over a ~9' span (it's just a covering board for me) with no issues.
Also used it for a head liner in the cuddy cabin of one of my 25's and it's held up well.
You may want to go thicker/more robust if there's more contact in your situation.
I'll try an post up some pic's if I can (I am a technological dinosaur).
Cheers,
John

Komacel and komatex 2 different products same manufacturer
One very much softer than the other
Sizes are in MM and run true, something in a 3/8 equivalent would be fine for the side panels

Thanks for all of the info and suggestions. I have some samples of Komacel coming. As Raybo and John mentioned, your local sign shop is a good place to start.

I did a bit of research and they make a Komacel Marine and Komacel Marine Plus. The marine grade Komacel is denser than many other PVC foam boards. The straight Marine Komacel comes with a glossy finish, so this would be a good candidate for the cockpit panels. The Komacel Marine Plus comes with a "braided" finish. As I understand it, the Marine Plus is very heavy duty and would be a good material for areas of extreme wear, below decks, stringers, under deck or under gunnel backing and support.

They have a 13mm thickness which is just about 1/2 inch. This should be a good thickness for cockpit panels.

Coolair, thanks for posting the pics! The cockpit looks great.

JR

All that marine specific stuff is pretty new, I didn't even know they were marketing and producing products specifically for marine structural applications

I’ve gotten CNC kit cores from manufacturers and I swore some of it was just pvc trim boards

Raybo,

I'm curious about the finish on the marine grade. I'll let you know how it looks when I get the samples.

JR

Thank you!

Found my file.
The stuff I used is called Sintra.
Some people like Coke, and some people prefer Pepsi.
So the decision for me really came down to what is readily available in my community.
Good luck with the project.
John

John,

Thanks for looking that up, it looks like some good stuff. Here's a website I found for Sentra-

https://www.curbellplastics.com/Shop-Ma ... L.SkuSheet

I'm thinking the white 12.7mm would be about the right thickness for the cockpit panels.

JR

Getting a little worried about the availability of the Kamacel boards. The guy that was going to send me a sample said that the marine board is not being produced right now--maybe due to corona virus. Have any of you guys found a source for Komacel board?

Raybo, From your earlier post, it sounds like you may not have used the "marine grade" product for your cockpit panels, is that correct? If that's the case, maybe it's not that important to buy the marine grade board.

JR

Jack -- Check out Piedmont Plastics on Jefferson Highway. Years ago, I bought expanded PVC foam (may have been Komacel or generic) for cabin ceiling panels, and clear and smoke plexiglass from them. I just looked at their website and there are several possible materials. Don't pay attention to the sheet sizes on the website -- the shop offered full size sheets. The PVC foam panels that I bought worked great for the cabin ceiling, but would be too soft for cockpit panels. Also, when I looked shocked at the price, the manager gave me an employee discount -- so wear your jeans with the holes in them if you go there...

my curiosity is the STRUCTURAL marine grade products that they have on their website

the regular board serves a far from structural purpose and is perfectly suitable
Personally we have some out in the field that have been in service for many many years including backing boards for coaming pads, seats, etc

Marshall,

Thanks for the heads on Piedmont Plastics, I'll drive by today and see what they have.

Raybo,

I agree, the Structural grade sounds like a great product. They told me it has a "braided" finish. I'm hoping to get a sample, but no luck yet.

JR

Starboard is HDPE, high density poly ethylene and will not hold paint or epoxy. It is machine able and available in several colors. Kinda indestructible, commercial fishing guys use it on there decks for dumping there traps, just pressure wash and that’s all they are concerned with. It’s much heavier than PVC azek and your use is not structural. I used 1/2 and attached hinges and pulls with nut / bolt method as it’s not structural

Hey Jack -

What did you decide to do on your panels? I just got the quote back from my yard, the cost of coosa is almost 8x more expensive than marine ply. I'm thinking about using coosa for the engine boxes and marine ply for the panels. Even with the extra work of sealing the ends of the ply, glassing and fairing it the labor is still less than sheets of coosa.

Were you able to find Komacel? Trying to put my plans together now, input from others would be great. Thanks.

Charlie

Raybo Marine NY wrote: ↑Sep 9th, '20, 16:19 you dont want starboard, besides being ugly it warps, doesnt hold adhesives, resin, paint, doesnt hold screws well either

Komacel is availible in 10' sheets, you can get the 2 side panels from one sheet another for across the transom. I THINK ( would have to double check ) you may be able to get the engine boards from the left over
its easy to cut, glue, you can paint it or just install it as-is because its UV stable
you can fiberglass onto it if you like

Raybo where are your engine hatches and side trim piece from?

Those are original motor boxes----

PVC 1/2 panels with white formica. 25 five plus years under the Puerto Rico sun and rain and going strong.

Original Unmodified boxes.
The teak trim is real generic stuff I got from a local distributor, think it was sea teak or whitecap brand . They had it in stock it was literally the easiest thing to do on the boat