B25 Restoration. Inline 6, Inline 4 or Outboards ?

[Ttownthomas]

I am in the planning stage of a '72 Bertram 25 Moppie restoration. The big decision I have to make before the project starts is how to power her.

The boat currently has 165 Mercruiser sterndrives. The Motors are running ok. They are rebuilt Jasper engines but I don't know how long ago. Probably 10 years and unknown hours. The hours counter says 1100. They are running a bit rich but could be tuned without too much trouble, oil pressure was good and they start right up. The drives are another story. The drives are Type 1 and the stbd one has a broken off cavitation plate and skeg. That one also has a hard time finding neutral. The Gimbal/transom assemblies are all gunked up and corroded looking . plus they are slathered with bottom paint. All the bellows are new. WIth broad brush strokes here are my options:

Option 1, Make the old motors reliable and trustworthy.

Buy rebuilt gimbal housings from "Mikes Alphas" in TN for $1700 each and SEI or rebuilt mercruser drives. At least $1400 each. Plus new hydraulic rams and lines. Then on the motor side I would at a minimum remove and bead blast and paint the manifolds and risers (or replace if there is any fear of rust thru), bead blast the exhaust elbows, new shudders, replace all the hoses, new water pump, rebuild the carburetors, new cap and rotor, new points, new plugs and wires, new fuel pumps, new alternators. I figure this option will end up being $10,000 in parts

Option 2, Repower with 3.0L mercruisers.

Complete engines and alpha gen II sterndrives run about $10,000 apiece I think. So call it $20,000 in parts. With these motors the boat is lighter and Ive read that the weight savings mostly offsets the lower horsepower (30hp per side less). By most accounts I have read this is a fairly straigtforward swap. Bigger transom holes, smaller motors with a little glass work for the motor mounts. EDIT:Mabee the cost per package is closer to the $6-7k range

Option 3, Repower with twin outboards. I'm not doing 1 motor. I know it has been done successfully but I'm set on 2. Obviously this option requires alot of glass work. Either installing or building a bracket or glassing in a motor well. This option requires alot less mechanical work. Twin used outboards run from about $10,000 for a pair to....Well, they sky is the limit here. This option means I would be departing considerably from the restoration theme and doing more of a refit/modernization. Mabee something like this

https://www.gccm.com.au/new-life-for-an ... own-under/

Id love to hear your thoughts.

[ktm_2000]

lets start with the basics...

What are your goals in owning the boat?
how do you plan on using it?
How are you planning on storing it? on a trailer ? in the water?
Freshwater / Saltwater?

Are you mechanically inclined?
how do you rate your willingness for interruption?
how fast do you want to be able to use it?
budget?

[CamB25]

Next time you are out on Lea Island, or cruising Banks channel, or running the ICW, or walking a marina in the area, count the number of I/O boats you see.

If you see one, it is likely owned by a northern transplant that has just moved to the area and hasn't had the time to sell it.

[Ttownthomas]

What are your goals in owning the boat? I'm already a boat owner so Ill say what the goals are for this boat. My other boat is a skiff and I chose this boat because I like Bertrams, I wanted a towable boat because towing gives us access to all of the NC coast, it is capable and comfortable to go out the inlet and beyond, and can accommodate an overnight here and there.
how do you plan on using it? Day and short overnite trips with mostly with my wife and kids. But sometimes fishing trips with the guys. Fishing, Beach going, etc.
How are you planning on storing it? on a trailer ? in the water? On a tariler
Freshwater / Saltwater?. Both. I live near Raleigh and there are some lakes around but mostly NC coast.

Are you mechanically inclined? Yes
how do you rate your willingness for interruption? Low.
how fast do you want to be able to use it? 1 year project timeline
budget? Flexible. Within reason.

[Ttownthomas]

Next time you are out on Lea Island, or cruising Banks channel, or running the ICW, or walking a marina in the area, count the number of I/O boats you see.

If you see one, it is likely owned by a northern transplant that has just moved to the area and hasn't had the time to sell it.

Good point. They are just so pretty in an IO or Inboard. But The inboard dosen't handle our shallow waters to my liking.

[ktm_2000]

Your appetite for interruptions being low pretty much excludes keeping the motors as is and fixing as needed on a long term basis. There's no way that they are not going to nickel and dime you as well as have you miss trips because of various problems.

your other 2 options both will require glass work as well as $$$ and based upon my experience getting done in 1 year would be tough. I think something has to give....

New I/Os could be fairly fast to re-do the inside portion of the transom. If trailer kept and flushed regularly might be a reasonable option for a fairly decent lifespan, sounds like you deal with shallow water so I don't know how well that would work.

Outboards are going to take you longer to convert to and get going, would break your one year time span as well as be way more expensive than a set of new 3.0L motors.

I'm wondering if it is worth you spending as little as possible to make the existing engines run and see if you can get most of this season out of them and figure out if I/Os would be reasonable for you, If they are go that route, if not look down another path. At least you get to see how she rides and base your decision on your own first hand experience rather than internet sources.

In my case, I bought my hull in 2003 with freshwater used I/Os knowing I wanted outboards, I ran the I/Os and chased gremlins for a whole lot of years. I've saved up some $$$ and now I am doing what I wanted from the get go. During that time, I did learn that I loved the way the hull rides and appreciate a wide beam boat. The one question is looming in my decision making is single vs twins. I've gotten used to having twins and even though they weren't counter rotating I liked having them, I could spin her on a dime to starboard but not to port. I am going with a single for simplicity, who knows if it will be the right decision for me.

[CamB25]

[/quote]Good point. They are just so pretty in an IO or Inboard. But The inboard dosen't handle our shallow waters to my liking.[/quote]

I agree. I fought the switch to an outboard for years. In the end I just couldn't see any performance advantage with an I/O, so I went over to the egg beater side of the house. Choosing power is not easy with the B25 because all the configurations can work well - inboard, V-drive, I/O, Outboard. Outboards will allow beaching, are easy to maintain, are disposal, and relatively easy to swap out. Single or twin is a personal preference. With twins you could use 2 relatively small engines, maybe 110 - 130 hp each, 25 inch shafts.

[Ttownthomas]

The quandary is real. I see the benefits of a full refit with outboards. If done right you can end up with a brand newish boat that would cost $200,000 to buy from a factory for a fraction of the cost. Dunno if that is 1/4, or 1/3 or 1/2. But a fraction nonetheless.

On the other hand...If I have completely rebuilt outdrives and everything that delivers fuel spark or water to the engines is new or rebuilt why won't it be reliable? At least with 1970's technology running was not a yes or no proposition. The boat runs just fine right now. Needs tuning but that is definitely a temporary condition. But how temporary? I think I need to see if I can find anybody that still runs these engines. Probably when I can't find anyone who does I will answer my own questions.

One more thing. Do I need to get a bigger trailer if I am thinking about an outboard bracket? I'd hate to buy a trailer now only to find out it is too short.

[CamB25]

I bought my hull in 2003 with freshwater used I/Os knowing I wanted outboards, I ran the I/Os and chased gremlins for a whole lot of years.

Everyone is encouraging you to run the boat, as is, for the summer. Maybe make it your "lake boat" to stay close to shore and parts stores. You'll work it out. The equation has more variables than constants, so it's not easy to solve.

Outboard is not supported by the trailer, so trailer length does not change. However, the added weight aft may cause you to shift the axles aft to maintain tongue weight. Not a big deal.

Cam

[Ttownthomas]

Yes. Thats a good plan. I have to do some re-wiring first. It looks like a fire hazzard to me. There are alot of leads run right to the battery terminals.

[Carl]

We are bird of opposite feather.

Me, if boat was safe and sound I'd enjoy and use. 1100 hours should be nothing if cared for.

Drives...cav plate is a weld to repair. Not finding neutral...well gotta take care of that.
But if all else is in good shape, I'd get done and enjoy.

New or old...it's a boatcrap breaks.




Now if your a need to be new kinda person...buy what makes you happy, provided you can, then get out and enjoy.
If your more of a gotta make it perfect before...I have no idea how that works.

[Ttownthomas]

We are bird of opposite feather.

Me, if boat was safe and sound I'd enjoy and use. 1100 hours should be nothing if cared for.

Drives...cav plate is a weld to repair. Not finding neutral...well gotta take care of that.
But if all else is in good shape, I'd get done and enjoy.

There are many more issues but the bones are there. Part of the journey for me is fixing it all.

[CamB25]

[/quote]

There are many more issues but the bones are there. Part of the journey for me is fixing it all.[/quote]

It is a journey. You are wise, Grasshopper!