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Hi,
I am launching my refit soon and am thinking about anchor arrangement.
As the boat did not have the anchor on deck previously it didn’t have original anchor chocks. I am keen to put these on, but haven’t seen any pics of them. Does anyone have any pics?
I am thinking of a Fortress FX11 on deck, with a bigger FX23 stowed below. 10m chain (30ft) and 60m line.
Grateful for info.

That's a lot of chain, which is good.... and I keep plenty of chain on board too. But I only keep six feet of rubber coated chain on deck which is plenty for a lunch hook. A couple of shackles, a pair of pliers, and five minutes is all it takes to add more chain if anchoring out overnight. I have a fairly cheap Perko chock set. It works, but if I could find something nicer I might be inclined to change.The real weak point was the deck pipe into the rope locker. It's way too small for passing rope back into the locker, and actually, if you have the slightest of tangles below you can have a snag on the way up. I replaced the round pipe with an oval that is spring loaded and locks open when in use. The other thing I do is use a safety line on the anchor when under way. Just a short length of line which runs from the front cleat to the anchor with a spring hook.


https://www.bosunsupplies.com/S3810-0000.html

http://www.perko.com/catalog/deck_hardw ... hor_chock/

Good idea on the safety line Mike. I think I'll add that to mine.

I keep my heavier "bruce" anchor in the cockpit with a good amount of chain. It's easier for me to drop it over the transom, then we simply bring the rope to the bow. And when pulling it we do that in reverse, pulling the chain and anchor over the gunwale. Easier on your back with some gunwale support.

My lightweight Fortress on the bow is used for calm/sandy environments, like you said, "lunch hook".

Thanks guys.
Rather than having a rope/chain pipe, I was thinking of having a small round inspection hatch under the anchor. A 4” watertight hatch would allow chain and shackles through when required.
Like this one:
https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-screw- ... ers-m.html
Obviously, once anchored there’s no hole for the rope, so it has to stay open, or take all the rope out.
Any drawbacks as you see it?

David,

ALL anchor decisions are made with respect to where you drop your anchor.
Tell us where you are, so we can advise.
For example, I and everybody in greece we ALL cary ONLY-chain, never rope.
I carry 70 meters of chain, no rope...never.
You might need a windlass too.

David, I think you will be better served with Mike's plan, which is merely an upgrade of the original factory layout. If you get in a jam and need your anchor reasonably quickly, you don't want to be removing port cover, fishing our your anchor rode and manipulating a shackle to drop anchor. The deck pipe does not detract from the boat's appearance, it provides good protection from water intrusion and is a lot more user-friendly.

Yannis, I’m pretty familiar with anchoring techniques thanks. I’ve done it more than a few times before!!

Thanks Tommy, that’s good advice. The rope tubes didn’t look very watertight, but they obviously are. I’ll stick with tried and tested.

i have the same deck pipe as mike and found 28' of 3/8" chain seems to be perfect for up to 200" depths with 1200" of line in a laundry basket in the cockpit with a 20' leash on the ball. i also have a separate fortress with 5' vinyl chain and 100' of line in rope locker. i found this setup over a 12 year period to take care of any anchor situation. needless to say, big danfort anchor and heavy chain is stored in cockpit kill box. never forget balance!!!!!!

this is a photo of deck pipe and anchor chocks all 316SS. the 4" deck pipe that Mike described we have the same set-up.

Yes, that's the ticket on the rope locker pipe. It will close over 5/8" rope, and if you look at the way Bob has it set up (as I do) you won't take any water into the boat while you're on the hook, even if the waves are breaking over the bow.

As for length, I have 1200' of rode in the locker, which is enough to 'safely' ride out a storm in about 150' of water. Here in the New York area, 150' of water is anywhere from 8 to 15 miles off shore depending upon where you are. Also depending on where you're heading, spending a day on the hook 10 miles out might be much safer than trying to run a snotty inlet. It can also be safer than trying to anchor in 50 feet, where the waves might be much larger. I keep a parachute sea anchor on board in case I need it in deeper water.

Up here, we fish for tuna in 350 to 1200 feet of water which can be anywhere from 35 to 75 miles from a beach..... and I've seen the weather turn from blue sky and flat calm to 'holy shit' in absolutely no time.

There's no such thing as 'Stop this ride, I want to get off'. We need to be prepared for anything. That's why we may carry a solar charger, but we don't depend on it. Most guys won't even shut their engines off (unless the generator is running) from the moment they leave the dock until they're tied back up to it. It's why we'll never have electric boats. Same for 200 feet of chain. There's just no need for it here. Thirty feet is more than enough, but you can never have too much 5/8 or at least 1/2 inch anchor rode. Obviously that's location specific, but anyone who leaves the dock with only 70 meters of anchor rode up here, is asking for trouble. I wouldn't even get on the boat.

And that doesn't begin to scrape the safety gear surface. Survival suits, flares, smoke bombs, balloons, dye markers, laser pointers, EPIRB's, handheld VHF, drinking water. Firearms.... The list goes on.

Big ocean, small boat, cold water, sharks. Safety first, because I want to make it home every single time. It may not be tonight, but I'll get there.

In fact it is so location specific, as youre saying, that leaving dock with 1200’ of rode in the med is asking for trouble too!!!
Thats why I asked where one drops anchor, as this “where” predetermines more or less the correct answer.

Well.... someday you'll have to explain to me how having more rope than you think that you need is a bad thing.

mike ohlstein wrote:Well.... someday you'll have to explain to me how having more rope than you think that you need is a bad thing.

Unless someone wants to hang you with it!!! LOL!

I'll have to install a yardarm.

Rawleigh,

Unfortunately, even just two meters of rope can hang you, 1198 will remain unused LoL !!

Mike,

Simply because we do not use rope. We only use chain (for boats of a certain weight, obviously not for my 2 meter dinghy).
So 1200’ of rope is 1200’ too many!
It’s two completely different boating worlds...so mooring, docking, anchor using etc are also completely different.
We do not drop anchor in deep waters because there is no point of doing so.
We do not have pillars because we have no tides.
All piers, ok, most piers are cement. Floating piers you only find in marinas. Marinas is where you KEEP your boat, not where you go with your boat.
Now, there are 20 marinas and another 2000 cement piers where you go aft-in and want to make sure that the 20-30 meters of anchor that you dropped are holding you away from the pier in all winds. So you want a lot of chain to go down and hold your anchor in place.
It is unimaginable to not have a windlass.
When not in a proper port but instead in a cove for swimming or overnighting you are expected (from common sense) to lay 3 times your boat length in anchor chain on the sea bed. Plus the depth.
There is more to it, but I’m sure you get the idea.

I get it. 100%

However, suggesting that it is dangerous to have rope on board or suggesting to anyone who puts out in the ocean that 200 feet of rode is enough, is irresponsible at best. That's all I'm saying.

If you go back to the original post, the question was regarding 30 feet of chain and 200 feet of rope. My comment, and my advise remain the same. And just so that there is no misunderstanding, I'll scream it.

YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH ANCHOR RODE. Period.

Here's another truth. When it comes to 15,000 pound, 31 foot boats, there's 'almost' nothing that that 170 feet of chain will do for you that 30 feet of chain and 170 feet of rope won't....except maybe take up space in the locker where you could have had another 600 feet of rope.

This isn't simply my opinion. Cultural and location related differences aside, safer is better. And when it comes to having raw materials on board versus not, more is better.

mike ohlstein wrote:Yes, that's the ticket on the rope locker pipe. It will close over 5/8" rope, and if you look at the way Bob has it set up (as I do) you won't take any water into the boat while you're on the hook, even if the waves are breaking over the bow.

As for length, I have 1200' of rode in the locker, which is enough to 'safely' ride out a storm in about 150' of water. Here in the New York area, 150' of water is anywhere from 8 to 15 miles off shore depending upon where you are. Also depending on where you're heading, spending a day on the hook 10 miles out might be much safer than trying to run a snotty inlet. It can also be safer than trying to anchor in 50 feet, where the waves might be much larger. I keep a parachute sea anchor on board in case I need it in deeper water.

Up here, we fish for tuna in 350 to 1200 feet of water which can be anywhere from 35 to 75 miles from a beach..... and I've seen the weather turn from blue sky and flat calm to 'holy shit' in absolutely no time.

There's no such thing as 'Stop this ride, I want to get off'. We need to be prepared for anything. That's why we may carry a solar charger, but we don't depend on it. Most guys won't even shut their engines off (unless the generator is running) from the moment they leave the dock until they're tied back up to it. It's why we'll never have electric boats. Same for 200 feet of chain. There's just no need for it here. Thirty feet is more than enough, but you can never have too much 5/8 or at least 1/2 inch anchor rode. Obviously that's location specific, but anyone who leaves the dock with only 70 meters of anchor rode up here, is asking for trouble. I wouldn't even get on the boat.

And that doesn't begin to scrape the safety gear surface. Survival suits, flares, smoke bombs, balloons, dye markers, laser pointers, EPIRB's, handheld VHF, drinking water. Firearms.... The list goes on.

Big ocean, small boat, cold water, sharks. Safety first, because I want to make it home every single time. It may not be tonight, but I'll get there.

Well said mike
I couldn't agree more

Mike, Bob,
Thanks for the input. Great layout. That’s the way I’m going. Just need to get the Perko chocks sent from the States (which over the doubles the price!!). No one over this side sells them.

I carry 70 meters of chain, no rope...never.

Yannis, that's a ton of chain. How much does it weigh, do you keep it all in the bow chain locker and what effect does it have on your performance?

Yes I do.
In fact we all do.
I know, its hard to understand but like I said before the locality is different...
I think it weighs something like a permanent man at the bow. No big deal.
Any length of rope, even with a few meters of chain, is a moving danger.
Boats never ever carry rope for anchoring, pure heavy chain, 70 meters for our boats up to, who knows, 2 to 300 meters for the superyachts. All at the bow. With a windlass.
I never suggested YOU should not carry as much rope as you feel safe with. Only it’s unsuitable for the med. Thats all!

hey mike i wonder if they "keel haul" the bad guys with the chain instead of hemp line??????

Filthy, but......

Yannis,

I can see understand the need for chain when at a pier.

Not sure I get the need when anchoring elsewhere.

Not sure why you would not ever need to anchor in deep water...fishing, diving...storm kicks up and wish to ride out.

Not sure I understand the danger of having rope. I get not necessary...but dangerous?

Yannis wrote:Yes I do.
In fact we all do.
I know, its hard to understand but like I said before the locality is different...
I think it weighs something like a permanent man at the bow. No big deal.
Any length of rope, even with a few meters of chain, is a moving danger.
Boats never ever carry rope for anchoring, pure heavy chain, 70 meters for our boats up to, who knows, 2 to 300 meters for the superyachts. All at the bow. With a windlass.
I never suggested YOU should not carry as much rope as you feel safe with. Only it’s unsuitable for the med. Thats all!

yannis
can you explain why the med is different
and you need all that chain

There are very few occasions where a boat that leaves port does NOT drop anchor.

I can think of the following few, like going skiing, vessel trials or systems testing, sailing for a few hours in a breezy day, fishing and perhaps a few more that don't come to mind.

For ALL other occasions, which are probably more than 95% of the total, a boat of any type will have a DESTINATION.
A destination is most probably another marina, port, cove, sandy or rocky beach, and that's about it. There is really no reason whatsoever why a boat of any type will leave port and start wandering about in the open sea just for fun, let alone consider to drop anchor in the middle of the deep sea. Why do that?
Therefore, the TYPE of the anchoring gear (anchor type and weight, rope or chain choice, windlass, but also cleats and their paraphernalia like D rings, swivels etc.) are DICTATED by the depth and type of the sea floor, the WEATHER conditions, the size of the boat, as well as the element of PRECISION required when the time comes to drop this anchor.
Furthermore, the anchoring decision is dependent on whether a boat will moor at a pier, or will stay "at anchor", always in the above stated destinations.

Now that we have most, if not all occasions laid out, lets discuss how it's done:

First, we have to reasonably assume that the depth in all such areas is anywhere from zero to 30 meters. Except for the very few cases where the depth is really important (like the volcano of Santorini where at only a few meters away from land the depth is 500 meters or more), or at one or two "deeper" ports, all other destination depths are around 5-10 meters in ports/marinas, or even less if you're at a beach or cove.

So, here you are, arriving at a port, and deciding to moor at a pier.This pier is almost always (with some exceptions) a concrete arm protruding into the sea, where smaller boats go towards the land side where waters are shallower, and bigger boats go to the remote end, where waters are deeper.Tradition has it that boats almost always will moor stern-to. This is required by the captain as it's safer, but also for practicality issues, as it's waaay easier for people to go in and out with the use of a gangway. There are NO side floating docks between boats and no pillars.

Keep in mind that "booking a berth" is an unknown notion and there are NO allocated berths for anyone, as well as that most of the times the port/pier is already full when you arrive, so you have to squeeze in between boats and their laid out anchors, starting by positioning your boat at a distance, making a U turn so as to go stern-to, dropping your anchor hopefully BETWEEN all other anchors (or else the moment one of your adjacent boats decides to leave they may pull YOUR anchor up), hanging your fenders and maneuvering so that you will precisely follow your predetermined and WELL THOUGHT OUT track to the pier.
Of course, if the wind conditions are bad (which is very often the case) and the wind takes you away from your precise route while reversing, that's where it becomes very interesting...you have all adjacent captains and sailors ready at their bows to protect their own boats from damage, but also help you by pushing and pulling you towards the narrow space you have decided to enter into. The situation becomes even more pleasant if a captain on a moored boat disagrees with your space/berth choice which is next to him and suggests another spot - imagine people shouting in the middle of the night in ten different languages that you go "there" or "there" instead...
So you have dropped your anchor. Usually for the depths discussed, for our size boats and given the wind conditions, you should pay out around 20-40 meters. This you do by pushing the drop button from the bridge, or alternatively, by that same button at the bow with the help of a deck hand, all the while looking back so as to position your stern right between those two boats.
Keep in mind that NOT all ports are protected from all winds. In fact it's safer to say that most ports are protected ONLY from the prevalent winds for their geographical area. This means that you SHOULD anticipate any wind direction change (which usually happens while you're away grocery shopping, or at night when you sleep...).
Your anchor should therefore be so well placed that under NO circumstances should it drag. First, because as you're stern-to, you are tied only one meter away from the concrete pier which you will hear and feel IF you ever hit into. This also happens at night LOL or when you least expect it, Murphy's law at its best.
In that case you wake up, quickly start your motors, untie your aft lines and while pulling your anchor you go out, so that you drop your anchor again, in a fashion that it will NOT drag this time.
You had better not find yourself in the unfortunate situation whereby you also pull your neighbor's anchor which is tangled up with yours...this topic is a whole thread by itself so I won't expand...
This is where the choice for a chain or a rope, or a combination thereof comes into play.
There is NO WAY, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will a rope hold your 7 ton boat into the wind against a concrete pier.
Not even if that rope is attached to a few meters of chain.
Not even IF by stupidity or other reason you've chosen a wrong chain weight.
You'll smash your boat and possibly all other boats around. Hence my "danger" vs "necessary" choice of wording previously.

As in the case of mooring "at anchor", which is self explanatory, you need to pay out 3 good boat lengths of chain on the sea bed, plus the depth, hence the 70 meters required for our size boats. Sailboats of the same size need 90+ meters of chain as they're heavier, but also cannot approach so much to shallow waters.

I hope I've given you the reasons why we choose chain vs rope, why we choose the length we choose and under what conditions we moor our boats.
That's also why, in just a few years' practice, most of us will learn how to turn our boat on a dime. That's also why we laugh at captains (so to speak) who are not equipped in a manner that would guarantee mooring safety, either by wrong choice of chain weight or length, insufficient windlass power etc.
If there are areas I left unexplained please let me know.

I think that sums it up
thanks yannis

Yannis...

I'd argue the point that there is No Way a line could hold a 7 ton boat off a pier in head winds...but I would say chain is the best choice.
Especially a good decision when you factor the short scope needed in your mooring conditions.

When I anchor its away, far away from other boats...long scope.

Thanks for the explanations...just a much different mindset here.

My pleasure, Charlie.

Carl,

If youre like me, and you dont wish to be looking towards the dock all day, you moor bow in.

In that case, I employ my fortress second anchor from the stern (which I put together a while before) that is tied to a 5 meter HEAVY 12mm chain and some 30 meters of rope.
This is the only anchor, to my knowledge, with which you can play this trick and feel adequately safe, because on a sandy bottom with no weeds or rocks, as it is where I usually go, this anchor is simply unmovable.
HOWEVER, one should be very cautious which spot of the pier to choose for mooring, generally a place with less comotion and ins and outs by other boats, so that a propeller may not snap you loose...
The rest you can imagine...

So, ideally, even for the second anchor you need full chain.

Despite its few spelling mistakes...

https://www.boatandboats.com/magazine/anchor.html