bertram31.com

Here are the first few steps for the creation of my rear bench. As we go along, I'll post more pics.

Aluminum or stainless steel?!...

SS

My 100+ kilos jumping from the pier onto an aluminum bench ... ha ha , I'd be on the evening news !

Yannis wrote:My 100+ kilos jumping from the pier onto an aluminum bench ...

An aluminum structure can be made as strong as a stainless steel one... All it takes is thicker material...

Yannis wrote:ha ha , I'd be on the evening news !

Everybody is entitled to their 15 minutes of fame...

Yannis wrote:The horizontal bars will be supported from underneath, forming a triangle

You'll still be able to open those hatches right?!...

Nav,
The point is to not only be able to open the hatches, but to remove the whole deck without touching the bench!
Nothing of this structure will be touching the deck.

I want to see the mermaids on it when you are done!

Rawleigh

I would say that Yannis is getting a little cocky naming it the mermaid bench.

Perhaps the older he gets the better he thinks he was.

Rawleigh, Tony,

I admit, I lately resort to more important quantities of ...wishful thinking!
However, imagine the embarrassment if a mermaid showed up and has nowhere to lay her fishtail.
She might want to come inside instead !!

Yannis wrote:Rawleigh, Tony,

I admit, I lately resort to more important quantities of ...wishful thinking!
However, imagine the embarrassment if a mermaid showed up and has nowhere to lay her fishtail.
She might want to come inside instead !!

God forbid you got caught with a Mermaid in your Cabin. LOL

Why not use 4 brackets rather than 3 so that the hatches can open without obstruction between them?

Whitebear,

The hatches will open without obstruction. The hatch covers just get out of the way anyway, you dont just lift and hold them open.
The bench will not go from wall to wall, because you have to have access to the cleats. The sides of the bench will be angled inwards for that.
The deck is not screwed down on purpose, if you need to do major work underneath you pull the deck easy. Without undoing the bench.
Thanks.

The deck isn't screwed down?

You must not be going out when it's 'Bertram Weather'.

Why?
It is so heavy it literally doesnt budge.
Are you thinking it could somehow fly away?
A water issue? Anyway with the first live wave inside the cockpit the 5 hatches will fly away so whats the point for the waterproof deck?
Do I miss something?

Mike;

Since Yannis says his deck has never budged no matter the weather - you are once again correct. Hitting a wave at speed in B31 weather would have sent my deck airborne.

Tom

Tom,

I've been intentionally and unintentionally airborne many times.
Especially during the first year or two, I was the equivalent of the marine version of the Dukes of Hazard.
The deck didnt even rattle on its frame base.
Perhaps the 28 deck is different than the 31 one, otherwise I assure you I would have clamped it down.
Im curious why your experiences of the 31 deck are so different.
Or perhaps Im missing something for which Im asking your good input.

Well, she DOES look somewhat Greek <wink>...

Yannis, when's your birthday?!... And, which one do you prefer:



Or:



<grin>

Yannis

Laws of physics. Boat goes up and comes down, deck defies the law of gravity and stays up for a second then comes down, hopefully still in the boat.

Bruce,

It is clear in your picture that the lady is ASKING someone to let her onboard!!

Nav,

My bday was a few days ago, thank you, I would pick the first one; the second one has a text on it that incorporates the word "inflatable" that gives a whole ... different meaning to the exercise !!

Tony,

I love the approach; still, this is exactly what does not happen. Either gravity has a different meaning in the Med, or, the 31 deck is lighter, or something else that Im still waiting to find out.I remember that in another old post, where a similar discussion was held, someone with a 28 was saying that him too has left his deck unscrewed. I mean without metal screws...!

Waves are the result of wind blowing over a long period pushing the water over a long distance... The effect accumulates... The Mediterranean sea is really a land locked pond... Until the opening of the Suez canal there was only one entry/exit... The straits of Gibraltar... Otherwise known as the Pillars of Hercules...

Among other things that means that tides are far less pronounced then elsewhere... And that's due to two factors: distance from the equator and the fact that all that water has to enter through a relatively narrow passage... The difference between the highest tides and the lowest ebbs is a couple of feet!... And that's over the whole of the year... Us Mediterranean types look in bewilderment at places that have daily tidal differences of 10' and even more...

Greece is basically a peninsula... The Ionian Sea to the west, the Mediterranean to the south, the Aegean sea to the east, Albania to the northwest, Macedonia to the north and Bulgaria & Turkey to the northeast...

The Aegean sea, an area within the Mediterranean, which is where, IIRC, Yannis boats, is basically a very large bay... To the west, northwest and north is Greece, to the northeast and east is Turkey... At the southern open end lies a big "stopper" in the form of Crete and a smaller "stopper" in the form of Rhodes... In addition, the Aegean is dotted with literally hundreds of islands... Some no more then a peak jutting out of the water and some large enough to support a sizable population... The big rolling swells that are common on the US east and west coasts are simply unknown in that area... The conditions are more along the lines of what you'd get in the great lakes then in the oceans... The Ionian Sea doesn't have as many islands as the Aegean but otherwise conditions are similar...

IOW, the conditions are VERY different from anything US ocean boaters would know on a regular basis... That doesn't mean the area doesn't get storms... Beaufort scale 12 (hurricane force) are rare but not unknown... We even have our own version of the Hurricane... The so called Medicane... The (long) summer is generally characterized by very flat seas (but "surprises" occur regularly)... Practically every morning (aside from the "surprises") starts out as a glassy Beaufort 0-1... On a rough day you'll get up to Beaufort 5-6... Wintertime will be significantly rougher but Yannis doesn't boat in the winter...

You're more or less correct.

For one, tides are unknown, to the point that even if they exist they are invisible. In other words, one can never tell if there's a tide, an ebb or anything.
I have NEVER seen a tide, only in pictures... And whenever I am in countries that do have tides, such as the US of the UK or France, I'm never by the ocean, and if I am, it happens that it's the time of the day when nothing happens !

Then, as for the winds and waves, perhaps there are not swells as in the oceans, but force 7 or 8 winds are VERY common, both in the summer, called Meltemia, or in the winter and they are north winds. I have posted a few videos in the past with a ferry boat just outside of the port of Myconos and there you can see what an 8 beaufort wind is. With force 9 all commercial boats stop.
Last summer it was so windy that in 3 months I cruised only 350 nm, compared to a usual average of 700 to 1000nm.

Generally speaking, the Aegean, not the Ionian, is a rough sea. If one does not behave with the necessary respect towards the sea, they may incur VERY difficult situations.
The ignorance of such a necessary respect is visible in the literally thousands of sailboats that are rented out each summer to tourists who think that the Med is a lake.
Every other evening there is a sailboat or two with broken masts, torn sails etc that arrive to the port(s) that I spend my vacations. With sailors who just seem to have understood what the Aegean summer winds are like ! And the local guy in the minivan who is super busy sewing sails and mending semiwrecked vessels. And I havent spoken about what happens to anchors and anchorages ...

Nav, lets organize a Med rendezvous ! only in Greece there should exist at least 200 Bertrams of all sizes. The point is that most Med boats are cocktail platforms and it is questionable if you really want to associate with Prada, Nautica, Rolex etc people. I, for one, won't have much to say.

As to screwing deck down...

I have been out running in some lousy snot...never recall having a hatch go flying. Not with the old plywood deck, nor the glass deck I replaced it with. Neither hatches locked or screwed.

Now have I had my everything else in the boat go flying...yup!

As not to being in the ocean and having big swells...yeah, those are bad. But shorter stacked waves are not a joke either...inlets and river mouths come to mind. Great lakes...can be some treacherous wave action.

Yannis wrote:The ignorance of such a necessary respect is visible in the literally thousands of sailboats that are rented out each summer to tourists who think that the Med is a lake.

If somebody read my post and got the impression that the Mediterranean is without challenges, be advised that that's NOT the case!... The Mediterranean may be virtually a "pond" it's a VERY large pond!... You could fit all 5 great lakes several times over into the area of the Mediterranean with space left over!... And, just as the great lakes can come up with serious challenges so can the Mediterranean... Sudden wind gusts and sudden summer storms are common place... Medicines may be relatively rare but they can get quite nasty!...

Yannis wrote:Nav, lets organize a Med rendezvous ! only in Greece there should exist at least 200 Bertrams of all sizes. The point is that most Med boats are cocktail platforms and it is questionable if you really want to associate with Prada, Nautica, Rolex etc people. I, for one, won't have much to say.

Aside from me owning a nice old Rolex (an heirloom given to me by my late father) I have nothing in common with Prada, Nautica & Rolex people... As for not having much to say, most of these people don't have much to say either... Having said that, the problem with organizing such a rendezvous would be how to contact all those owners... AFAIK they're not affiliated with any central "club" like entity...

Nav,
Old Rolex is fine !!!

After I wrote about the rendezvous I also thought to myself that it's kind of difficult.
Especially when the notion of a "club" is an unknown entity. A "club" in the western, but more so in the anglosaxon world, is a group of people with common interests...only in the same a/s world, you dont just meet people like that. To meet people with your interests, it helps to belong to a club.
In our countries where each time you leave home you can go sit/eat/party with anyone - at the dock, the cafe even the restaurant - who needs clubs? You choose the people with what interests you that very moment, you sit at their table and you discuss your interests. Just like that. Thats your club for the day.
Also, clubs require a certain protocol, another unknown word...

Yannis wrote:
Especially when the notion of a "club" is an unknown entity. A "club" in the western, but more so in the anglosaxon world, is a group of people with common interests...only in the same a/s world, you dont just meet people like that. To meet people with your interests, it helps to belong to a club.

Think your pulling our leg Yannis...No Clubs in Greece ? Pretty sure there's night clubs and yacht clubs at the very least...

Then we have this sandbox...for all intensive purposes...its a club. Bunch of people with a common interest that get to together, swap ideas, help one another...each brings a little something extra to the table and as a whole we are better for it.

Yannis wrote:Also, clubs require a certain protocol, another unknown word...

While some do...others don't. That is unless you consider a Hello or Goodbye a protocol.

I used to go to my marina, stop and say hi to the people I got to know walking past them day after day. On my dock, many of the people became friends, some closer then friends, like family. They looked after my boat, my kids...we vacationed together. It was sort of like a club...

Now I belong to a yacht club...basically the same thing. Get to know the people around you, chat, share a drink, food, clubhouse for inside parties is nice year round...only difference is our marina is now really our marina...cause another good thing about a club is there is strength in numbers.

Carl,

The world is a big place...
No,there are no clubs in Greece, as they are known mostly in the anglosaxon world and their affiliates.

There is one or two marinas with clubs, and perhaps one or two golf clubs in the whole country JUST to prove they are the exception to the rule...
A club is NOT a place where, as you are saying, people with common interests congregate for the common good. It is a place where ALL others are left out.
Most locations are public and in public locations you CANNOT treat people preferentially !
As for night clubs, here too, the word "club" is used without any particular meaning. Everyone is allowed, the notion of a "member " has been a source for various problems. (There are also other reasons here why this happens)
Thats life in our neck of the woods !

Huh...learn something new everyday, thanks.

I think we have different connotations on the work "Club"

Yes we do have Exclusive Clubs that you mention.

...but that is not the way I was using the term Club.


The way I meant Club, a group of friends based on a commonality.
This site is a Club of sorts. Our tie is Bertrams, the 31 to be specific, but open to really anyone. You have a 28, Nav a 54, Rocket has the Baron we have people with Topaz's, Hatteras's, Blackfins, some have no boats at all, some have knowledge and expertise in boats. The commonality is the Bertram 31...but inclusive to others. Is our club for the greater good of all...well, maybe all involved in this club.

Now what I meant for strength in numbers, if you, me, Nav and a couple other "Club" members got together we could pool resources for group rates and have a Club party at a restaurant or hotel. ...that would be a private Club party, but private in the sense we are a group getting together and paying for a function, it would exclude those that didn't pay or were not invited.

Carl, I wholeheartedly agree with your post... Just a small correction - I have a 46 (not a 54)!...

Navatech wrote:Carl, I wholeheartedly agree with your post... Just a small correction - I have a 46 (not a 54)!...

Oh man, sorry to hear that Nav, when did you downsize to the 46?




LOL...at least I remembered it was bigger then my 31'.
Sorry about that...



Interesting to hear the way words and terms come off differently throughout the world

Carl wrote:Oh man, sorry to hear that Nav, when did you downsize to the 46?

Never had another Berty... Neither bigger nor smaller...

Carl wrote:Sorry about that...

Nothing to be sorry about...

Carl wrote:Interesting to hear the way words and terms come off differently throughout the world

That's the truth... People may be saying the same word in the same language in the same context and still their meaning will be different...

One thing to remember is that in Europe boats (or "yachts" which is originally a Dutch word meaning "hunt") were something that royalty and the uber rich had... The other type of boats were work boats... Which were rarely used for recreation... In Europe certainly my B46 and possibly your B31 would be considered "yachts"... When I tell people in Europe I have a fishing boat the last thing in their minds is something along the lines of a B46...

Nav, I was being sarcastic...I knew you didn't downsize, just didn't recall it being a 46.


If I was buying fuel in Europe I'd be considering boating as an extravagant pleasure.

I know when gas went over $5/gallon, the recreational end of my boating business died. People did not leave the docks, it's very difficult to wear out or bend up shafts, struts and rudders with boats sitting at the dock. Not that I could blame them...I toned down many of my rides to a nice putt putt instead of cruising around burning fuel to go nowhere faster. It was funny how every bodies favorite fishing spots became right outside the harbor. Luckily, it has always been a great spot to catch something.

Project thread is continued here: http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12844

Aside from me owning a nice old Rolex (an heirloom given to me by my late father) I have nothing in common with Prada, Nautica & Rolex people... As for not having much to say, most of these people don't have much to say either... Having said that,

Enough said.

The point is that most Med boats are cocktail platforms

Yannis, You say that like its a bad thing?



You guys set em up, i'll knock em down.........

Mark,

No, it's not a bad thing for me at all, as a matter of fact, it's the best thing that occurred to me.
Only I cannot deny that sometimes in this site, people like me feel the "odd man out" syndrome, that is, stranger to mechanical issues and improvements, as well as fishing topics.
Not necessarily bad, just different !

I mentioned the fact that Med boats are "cocktail platforms" so as to illustrate what happens with all those fashion victims that are on board. But, perhaps, in your world of fishing boats, there could also exist those "fishermen" with fancy tackle and gear that would love to show off in a similar manner like our "yachtsmen" !

Yannis-
Don't feel like the odd man out...I can say I have used my boat as a cocktail platform more then once.
Heck it was even the pool boat till the wife almost sank it...at the dock.

That was a good one...It started out with us bringing down a blowup pool for the kids. Tossed it on the dock, kids had something to do while me and the Mrs socialized a bit. Small 3' became a 5 then a 6x 9'. Couldn't get around on the dock to well so we tossed in back of the boat. It was for the kids so only a couple inches of water and they were happy. On hot days we didn't go out, the adults (term used loosely) would sit on gunnels with feet in pool, we served drinks, some tunes...happy happy.
Heat wave comes, I am going to boat after I finish up at work. Get there a bit later then expected. Walking down the dock I see boats squatting...get closer and the scuppers are about even with the water. Gunnels are littered with bottles and cups, then I see heads, pool has several friends in it along with my kids, friends kids in it laid out catching the rays, dogs just laying on motor box watching. Pool is pretty much topped off with hose flowing to keep cool...Not sure how the boat didn't sink that day...it was close.
Anyway, yes, my boat has been a cocktail platform too.

Also been the fishing boat platform,
the kayaking platform...only boat that for 5 kayaks in cockpit
the dock and dine boat as it cockpit allows for more couples
the beach boat
a tubing platform once...worked well except that I burnt a tank of fuel in way too short a time.

Boat use in whatever way makes you happy is the perfect use.

Mermaid platform is a good thing...a shiny SS one at that...is just sweet!

I totally got it Yannis. I was merely pointing out that your brethren over here in the states have, on occasion, fallen to the temptations of the devils urine. On occasion mind you.......

Yannis:

My Bertram31 was a drinking platform, that had a fishing problem.

Tom

Thanks guys, seems like I've done most of all this too! Not the pool version, that's too creative, but mostly everything else.
How about f@@ked-up platform, instead of just a simple drinking one! With bodies scattered around barely breathing...

Yannis wrote: How about f@@ked-up platform, instead of just a simple drinking one! With bodies scattered around barely breathing...

Lets just say I am very glad phones with cameras and video's have not been around all that long.

...especially for the Toga parties, dock bowling and bunker bombing. Who knew bunker were so aerodynamic; using a super slingshot bunker go much further then water balloons. Then of course...just how many drinks before it seems like a good idea to go Bobbing for Bunker? That really is something to be seen in those nicely lit livewells with clear plexi fronts at night.

Good times for sure...

Carl wrote:especially for the Toga parties

You're telling Yannis about Toga parties?!... I think our resident Greek person know something about those... In fact, I think his fellow Greeks invented them!... <grin>

Carl wrote:Who knew bunker were so aerodynamic

There's no real difference between aerodynamics and hydrodynamics... In fact, you can test a wing profile in a water tank and test a hull design in an air tunnel... Both sets of results will be valid!...

Navatech wrote: You're telling Yannis about Toga parties?!... I think our resident Greek person know something about those... In fact, I think his fellow Greeks invented them!... <grin>

Thats why I gave it top billing...Yannis was feeling odd man out and wanted to show a little comradery with my friend.

Carl wrote:Who knew bunker were so aerodynamic

Navatech wrote:
There's no real difference between aerodynamics and hydrodynamics... In fact, you can test a wing profile in a water tank and test a hull design in an air tunnel... Both sets of results will be valid!...

I don't like putting my wings in water, I much prefer Blue cheese. But if wings are hot enough, I may resort to drinking water with wings, but beer is best.

I dont know about who invented Toga parties, or even what was the kind of parties Berlusconi was throwing in Italy, I think buga-buga or something, but I know for sure that youre both beyond repair. Mental repair that is.
Which if you ask me, is a good thing!
PS Sure Im glad that mobile phones and stuff came in late; there is no doubt Id not be a free man otherwise !!

I was in Milano last week with my son, where we saw all that group of Italian friends we had met a few summers ago in the islands. Anyway, one of them told me ....what do you think , the Americans copied us by electing someone who is "putagniardo, milliardario, and dyes his hair".

Yannis wrote:I dont know about who invented Toga parties

Togas were the standard form of dress in ancient Greece and I'm sure they had parties... Some of the ceramic wine containers have pretty explicit "decorations"... <grin>

Yannis wrote:I think buga-buga or something

Bung bunga I think they were called... I never did get an invite... <grin>

Yannis wrote:I know for sure that youre both beyond repair. Mental repair that is. Which if you ask me, is a good thing!

My Admiral would agree with you on the 1st part... <grin>

Yannis wrote:I was in Milano last week with my son, where we saw all that group of Italian friends we had met a few summers ago in the islands. Anyway, one of them told me ....what do you think , the Americans copied us by electing someone who is "putagniardo, milliardario, and dyes his hair".

Trump is certainly a character... I don't think that's necessarily bad though... In fact, at this point I fail to see how he could be worse then Obummer or Shrillary... I don't know about you but I find a politician who's actually doing what he said he would do quite refreshing... ALL over the democratic world we have been electing politicians who 2 seconds after they've been voted into power start walking back their promises... Personally I'm rather tired of that... As for the Italians, the less said the better...

Yannis wrote:I dont know about who invented Toga parties,

...who cares who invented it. Any party that starts out by wearing bed sheets is usually a pretty good party. And no, not Bunga Bunga, just tons of fun and laughs into the wee hours of the morning. Besides my two young daughters, 7 &11 I think at the time, joined us for all dock parties. Someone had to drive home...kidding, if drinking we always slept on boat.
But if you must know, our President FDR did have one of the first Toga parties on record...true or not, its a cool factoid.

Yannis wrote: I was in Milano last week with my son, where we saw all that group of Italian friends we had met a few summers ago in the islands. Anyway, one of them told me ....what do you think , the Americans copied us by electing someone who is "putagniardo, milliardario, and dyes his hair".

If Trump gets this country back on track, deals with Isis, Iran...terrorism, build jobs, boost economy, lowers taxes, makes healthcare closer to affordable for those that choose to purchase, gets a handle on immigration, takes care of our vets and reduces national debt...if he can make headway with that I couldn't care less is Trump dyes his hair purple and spray tan till he's completely orange.
A month into his Presidency, he's hitting on almost all those points he's promised. The outcome is another story, but the man is getting stuff done.

I'd rather talk about fun parties...

Carl wrote:If Trump gets this country back on track, deals with Isis, Iran...terrorism, build jobs, boost economy, lowers taxes, makes healthcare closer to affordable for those that choose to purchase, gets a handle on immigration, takes care of our vets and reduces national debt...

If Trump manages to do a reasonable job on HALF of those issues he'll be the best President the US has had in over 3 decades!...

If Trump manages to do a reasonable job on HALF of those issues he'll be the best President the US has had in over 3 decades!...

Nav thats been my thinking as well. But just know that once the old guard either tips over dead or starts eating peas through a straw and can't get to the poles (Which usually means we will be voting Democrat) the snowflakes are going to vote this country to the wolves and our Constitutional Republic will be gone. Enjoy it while its here. Oh and from your perspective, i'd start thinking about moving all your relatives in about 10 years.

MarkS wrote:I totally got it Yannis. I was merely pointing out that your brethren over here in the states have, on occasion, fallen to the temptations of the devils urine. On occasion mind you.......

Mark

Hey did not realize life was that tough. I can mail you a few cents so you can upgrade from Urine to a halfway decent bourbon.

Yannis, Don't feel like the 'odd man out'. Heck, you're using your boat. My boat(s) main purpose of late is to ensure the dust doesn't make it all the way to the floor in that part of the shop. Hopefully I'll upgrade my little Bertram to at least a cocktail platform this summer. I enjoy your posts and hearing about boating in that part of the world.

Salt of the earth you are Tony.

Thank you Daniel. Sometimes just looking at your mistress is better than going out with her !! (Hell no it isn't, but that's what I'm also trying to convince myself with during the winter months).



Mark, I looked up your liquid concoction and it says that it's a vodka combo.
So, first, how on earth can someone have 4 different types of vodka available to make this Devil's Urine? unless they're from Vladivostok. Is Wisconsin a vodka producing state?
Second, it reminds me of high school, when we wanted to drop dead with 5 bucks, so we'd mix everything in a glass !! Now, to drop onto a Bertram deck that's different !!!