bertram31.com

Good actor, may he rest in peace ..... but with all due respect, when you find someone with a needle still in his arm and empty bags of herroin, you can make a pretty decent guess as to cause of death.........that's like, "we found him with an axe burried in his head and are trying to determine what killed him".....

What a waste. What an idiot.

I found very interesting all the praise heaped on him today. Like the second coming of Christ all the networks were gushing in an almost Obama like fawn over this guy. Was he a good actor, certainly but his weakness trumps all else in my opinion and that is of a junkie, nothing more.

If you can play too good a junkie on the screen, it may be because you are one!

...I feel for his family and young kids.

A lesson to be learned by all. But who knows what demons were chasing him. But heroin. Not even trying to hide it, right in the arm for all to see. He had to be bad.

Tony Meola wrote:A lesson to be learned by all. But who knows what demons were chasing him. But heroin. Not even trying to hide it, right in the arm for all to see. He had to be bad.

Tony, I think we all have our Demons to deal with...how we deal with them is up to us. I think relying on alcohol and drugs to get you thru is not dealing, but avoiding the Demons and making a bad situation worse. I cannot say I haven't had a couple tall clears to get away for a little while...doesn't fix a think. But nice to get away for awhile... Obviously not even close to what he was dealing with...but have to wonder how many Demons he himself created along the way.

Long on the morning shows again today. He would be considered a contemporary Hollywood darling and all is good to go as far as behavior goes.

In a related story another actor died over the weekend who could have very well been conservative as there was little or no coverage. Maximilion Shell passed away at age 83. Move along folks, nothing to see here.........

MarkS wrote:Long on the morning shows again today. He would be considered a contemporary Hollywood darling and all is good to go as far as behavior goes.

In a related story another actor died over the weekend who could have very well been conservative as there was little or no coverage. Maximilion Shell passed away at age 83. Move along folks, nothing to see here.........

Mark- what do you think would happen if someone from Morning Show or news channel told it like it is..." Good actor, but Users are Losers, lets move on". Anybody see that person finishing up the week on the Air?

Shows like that and Ratings are like Politicians and Polls. Your opinion is for sale to the largest audience.

Reminds me of my time in the corps, " Kill them all, let God sort it out". Screw them druggies, 90% of the crime in this country has to do with drugs.

People who use are sick. They need to be treated.

Brewster Minton wrote:People who use are sick. They need to be treated.

Agree. And he left behind 3 kids. Tragic, regardless of who you are or what you do.

Carl because it doesn't sell doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. They can opine how wonderful he was how tragic it is and how incredibly stupid he was. It needs to be said. Some impressionable minds think he went out in style, which he did not he's a looser. Game over he looses.

John thank you, what I wouldn't give for 15 more minutes.

Brewster Minton wrote:People who use are sick. They need to be treated.

Brew

It takes a strong person to realize what is happening and to stop it. Just treating it does not help. The person needs to want to be helped. Treat a person who does not want help, and they will be back on their addiction in no time. Unfortunaetly he did not hit rock bottom, and or he never found what he was really looking for in life.

This might not go over well. Here we go. People who are addicts are sick. Just like someone with cancer. You say no "they did the drug they got what was coming to them". They're a looser. Maybe the loosers are the people who stand by and do nothing when somebody they know is using. If they have cancer you help. If they are an addict you do nothing "cause its their fault". Its a sickness. They are sick also. I do not know who this guy was. I know he was sick and needed help. Take it from a "LOOSER". Only difference is I'm alive still for now. Its not "Wanting help or not". Some die from cancer and some live. He died. You would not judge somebody with cancer. Sorry to be so heavy guys.

Brew, I admire your guts and honesty. Mental health issues (which addiction surely is) are rarely discussed even though they are rife throughout society. The trouble is that there is a continuum of degrees of function to disfunction and what is functioning for one person is on the precipice for another and that it comes and goes like an irregular tide.

Judging another helps us find our spot, but the lack of facts just creates a false sense of security or peril. I think premature death causes anxiety that we wish to hide from so we can say "here is the reason, so it won't happen to me". In a sense we are just whistling past the graveyard. Had it been prostate cancer or died in a boating accident or a car crash we would feel less secure and smug, but he would be no less dead and his children no less fatherless...

Brewster- Understood. I will get off my high and mighty box.

From my perspective-
I have spent too much time at hospitals, rehab facilities, shrink appointments for friends and family because of addiction. Then add in the wonderful benefits of those addictions....job loss, depression, mood swings (understatement) overdose, suicide attempts and I am sure I could add on and on to that list..then you have the effects of the addiction on family and friends of the addict tearing at their souls. Those that cannot bare to deal with it and their inner struggles tears the families apart.
Mornings, afternoons, calls in the middle of the night...countless holidays spent in ER's. I have had my dealings from that end...and I did not stand by and point fingers. I Thank God most of those people were able to turn their lives around and move past the addiction. Maybe I was a help being there, maybe not...I know in the end it was really all on them to kick the addiction and move on. I am so very proud of them and anyone who is able to do that.

Not having an addiction or maybe not giving in to one I would not know...but from where I sit there is one huge difference between Recreational Drug and Alcohol addiction and a disease like Cancer. Nobody decides to give Cancer a try...

My high and mighty box is my attempt to keep a clear and direct line that I can never ever step over...




Rocket- you made some really good points.

Well said Brew. I learned a lot over the past few years dealing with a neighbor with an Oxycodone addiction. Not long ago I would have said what a dumb ass wasted his life away, now I know it is way more complicated than that.

In any case I don't give Hoffman any more thought than the other tragic deaths that go unreported.

I worked with Maximillion Schell years ago. We were shooting a scene in a freight elevator in an old warehouse. During lunch Max hijacked the elevator and wouldn't let anyone aboard. What a great character. Phillip was a great actor. If you haven't dealt with the "demons" yourself speculation is impossible. Thanks Brew.
May they both rest in peace.

Max won an Academy Award back when they didn't hand them out like breath mints..... But like Farrah Fawcet (Michael Jackson), he picked a bad day to die.

The drug OD's are just more sexy, i suppose.

I have had my share of "demons" to deal with, some I suspect inherited from my situation at home while growing up, some caused by my personal stupidity as a young adult.. But I learned early on that I am not the brightest or strongest individual, and I needed 100% of whatever facilities I had to succeed in life and remain on an even keel. Alcohol and drugs might provide a temporary sense of relief, but when they wear off the demons remain. I learned I needed whatever strength I had to survive, and any artificial escape mechanisms were simply temporary avoidance tricks that ultimately wore off.. leaving me needing to face reality and feeling guilty for having tried to escape from it.. and failed. Best to fight using all the strengths I can muster.. and if I failed I at least knew I had tried my best.

I actually respect people who commit suicide.. at least they had the guts to take the ultimate step.

Guy's,
Having lost one of my friends and first mate when I was chartering back in the 80's to heroin. He was one of the funniest guys you would ever want to meet, You'd never know he was hooked. It started when he was in high school and he had tried to kick it many times, he was in his early 30's when he died. He was living in Gloucester the heroin capital of New England. Sad to see such talented people dealing with the demons.
Pete Fallon

IRGuy wrote: I actually respect people who commit suicide.. at least they had the guts to take the ultimate step.

...is it the ultimate step or just quitting?


Call me anytime to bend my ear...I care and can tell you ending it is not the right decision.

Nine 17- Nine 52- seven seven 03

Carl

...is it the ultimate step or just quitting?

Depends on the circumstances... Is retirement quitting? Is divorce quitting? Is moving quitting?

Quitting: Is it good or bad? Depends on the circumstances... Quitting life because of psychological problems, demons if you will, could be bad, but quitting life due to physical health problems might not be bad.

Depends on the circumstances... Compassion & Choices factor big...


I had written a longer post with a back and forth including euthanasia...which I believe can be quite noble in some cases.

...retire, divorce, moving...is it a way/form of quitting. I'd say it depends on the circumstances....which I guess is your point.

...you can retire and go back to work again, divorce and remarry the same person, move away and move back.



Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Houston, we have a problem...

Think my last post was sucked into yours Captain Pat.
At least on my computers it is.

Think my last post was sucked into yours Captain Pat.

Hmmmm.... That is damned strange.

Brewster Minton wrote:This might not go over well. Here we go. People who are addicts are sick. Just like someone with cancer. You say no "they did the drug they got what was coming to them". They're a looser. Maybe the loosers are the people who stand by and do nothing when somebody they know is using. If they have cancer you help. If they are an addict you do nothing "cause its their fault". Its a sickness. They are sick also. I do not know who this guy was. I know he was sick and needed help. Take it from a "LOOSER". Only difference is I'm alive still for now. Its not "Wanting help or not". Some die from cancer and some live. He died. You would not judge somebody with cancer. Sorry to be so heavy guys.

Brew

I am not saying they should not be helped. Just some times a person has to realize were they are and want out before they ask for or accept help. I realize we all have our vices, some worse than others. Many have beat them, and thank god for that. Vices don't make a person bad. Trust me, we all have had family members and friends with such vices and non of us would ever abandon them.

Now from what I am reading he was clean for over 20 years and took one drink that led to the down fall. What a shame.

Tony, my point was for many addiction is a disease. I am an addict and have cancer. Right now I am ok. Either can come back at any time and kill me. I do not have time for either. I am to busy fishing on my 31 Bertram. Which to some are both addictions. Just less likely to kill you. Your wives might.

Brew,
I wouldn't bet against you or Comorant Princess..both been through hell..always land on your feet..BH

One of the things that makes me alright is a sandbox where I became friends with so many cool people who love this boat. The thought, that I would make life long friends from some website. Not that this is just some website.

This is certainly SOME website and just to clarify, my looser comment is intended to be construed as the looser of a game, (in this case life) not personally a looser. My discontent is with the romancing of the looser. I know you get it. The typed word always lacks the rye smile and the nod........

Brew

Just remember one thing, as you have seen happen on this board and as you well know, and Mark can attest to it, if some one on this board needs help or support there will be someone from here ready to provide the support.

You have the right attitude.

By the way it is my belief that fishing and our beloved boats are only an addictiion if you are trying to kick the habit. However, my wife may disagree with that.

Peter,
I bow to you sir and your new found understanding and compassion.


Others,
The problem most have in dealing with addicts is that unlike cancer, most addicts don't run for help like cancer patients do when diagnosed.

When was the last time a cancer patient after being diagnosed said, Oh I can handle it. Don't worry, I have it under control.

Drug addiction is a battle for a persons mind. While it is extremely hard to do, love, compassion, understanding of the demons behind drug addiction will do more to pushing them toward help than
yelling at them they are going to die if they don't quit because they don't see it that way and many are trying to escape from those types of confrontation in the first place.

I know people who have dealt with family drug addicts for 30 and 40 years. Some cleaned up, some do not and die an addict.

BTW that love and understanding does not equate to being an enabler or putting up with theft or abuse from an addict.

There are very few programs that deal with the hurt and sadness that leads many to addiction.
That is a world wide disgrace frankly.

Capt. please note that there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with the board!… I seem to have acquired the capability to edit ANY post!…

On another thread I hit the "edit" button instead of the "quote" button and I ended up demolishing a great post by MarkS…

My apologies but this was entirely unintended...

Nav, I feel violated! :)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_4e8iAofnrw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I feel violated! :)

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that from our Wisconsin relatives, I'd be a king.

Not quite as much lube required since the right took control of all three branches of state goverment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvcUASy56g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MarkS wrote:Nav, I feel violated! :)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_4e8iAofnrw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I owe you a couple of cold ones :-)

Not at all Nav.................unless of course you insist! :)

It is so difficult to understand the depths and struggles of an addict -- one day at a time is often too much of a goal. I've aired my thoughts and comments regarding my ex, so they don't need to be repeated (although I am happy she is still alive today at this moment). But what I found an incredible slap in the face at the power heroin in particular has was a story I saw on the news last week. It seems 8 states (Connecticut included) have a new problem with heroin -- the batches are being cut (normally decreasing the "quality") with pharmaceutical grade fentanyl. Fentanyl is "100 times more potent than morphine." What was so chilling was they interviewed a 23 year old male who had overdosed on it and had to be brought back to life and his comment was "I watched a friend of mine do it and die right in front of me, but I figured he couldn't handle it but I could." And then he said, "if I had it right now, I'd do it again, the feeling is unreal."

So what's up with the cold?

Tom

MarkS wrote:Not at all Nav.................unless of course you insist! :)

I insist!!!

I just had a friend of mine from highschool her son died a few weeks ago from heroin 19 years old,were in southshore in mass its been a big problem here the last few weeks