Confused need help

Day Tripper · Post by **Day Tripper** » Mar 6th, '07, 17:20

Hey Guys,

I need a little help, a few months ago I came across a 1967 31. This is my dream vessel and my wife said go for it. However I own a 20ft Shamrock that I love and have rebuilt from the stringers up. She has been great to me and I don't know if I want to say goodbye, but I do not have enough room for both. However I worked a 31 in college and love the boat and want to get into one. The boat that I am looking at needs a lot of TLC and I am not sure I want to spend 3-4 years rebuilding a boat. The wife wants a boat that we can spend the night on, has a working shower and head and plenty of room to host people and fish from.

Is it going to be worth the time and money in the long run. I would plan on keeping the boat forever. This would probally be the last boat I purchase.

Any advise given would be great.

Thanks Guys

Mike

neil · Post by **neil** » Mar 6th, '07, 17:33

get your checkbook out and get started neil

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Mar 6th, '07, 17:55

Well, no B31 is a family cruising boat - they are simply a great day boat you can overnight on now & then. I have always viewed AJ as a pure day boat, and had either a houseboat or camp to do dock her and entertain in. I've had much bigger boats in the past and living on a boat is something you just have to be into vs. staying on the dirt with the boat in the back yard. What broke me from sucking eggs on big boats you lived on was the realization one day I was hauling a damn condo on my back offshore vs. leaving the condo at the dock and coming back at night to a real bathroom, a real living room, central a/c with no pumps, a king size bed, ice machines, shore power, all the comforts of home.

The Bertram 31 is the finest, most nimble, seaworthy day boat ever built, and a fish-raising machine. Look at the 15 that Tropic Star runs 6 days a week, 10 months a year. You get on at 6:30 am and off at 3:30 pm and then go to the swimming pool, eat a gormet dinner in a fine white table cloth dining room, sleep in huge rooms, etc. The B31 is simply a day boat you can camp on. Sure, AJ has a 6.5KW diesel genset, big a/c, a flush head, but she's a day boat. I love sleeping in the v-berths in the summer at PE in the ice cold ac, but it's not a family deal.

But couple a B31 with a shore home and you just got the best of both worlds.

UV

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 6th, '07, 18:18

Mike,

Get the 31!

I agree with UV about being a day boat but what a day-boat! So versatile that you & your wife can enjoy nights on board, entertain a lot of people if that's what you want and fish hard or picnic easy for the rest of your life.

As to getting real comfort on board a boat think about how big you really have to go to get beyond "cubby-house" accommodation. 52ft doesn't cut it, I had one. I stayed on a 175ft yacht for a month and it ended up feeling completely claustrophobic. That one sold for $22m and UV is right, you'd still rather go back to your hotel room or condo. And let's not get into crew or maintenance issues.

If it's for the rest of your life get the 31.

Good luck,

Nic

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 6th, '07, 18:47

Mike,

You know the 31 from working on one.

You know your wife.

You know whether it is going to work or not.

I think you already know the answer.

If the 31 is by chance your answer, there are plenty on the market already done real nice so you could enjoy right away.

Tiarra and Luhrs are better in a larger cabin/head for comfort and a good fishing platform and both perform as good and less wet than the 31.

Don't let anybody talk you into something that will make the wife unhappy, cause then you'll be unhappy with only half your stuff.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Mar 6th, '07, 19:13

Tiara and Luhrs are just as good as a B31......Bruce, you have finally turned the corner I feared you were headed for..say it ain't so.......just a brain fart?

Yo Fren'

UV

Hyena Love · Post by **Hyena Love** » Mar 6th, '07, 19:21

Round these parts, I think the Faithful can tolerate an occassional comment that the B28, with its larger cabin, performs almost as well as the B31.

Luhrs might be crossing the line into Bubble Boat territory.

Three simple questions -

Has any Luhrs fished the UVI?

Has any Luhrs won the UVI?

Are Luhrs even eligible to compete at the UVI?

neil · Post by **neil** » Mar 6th, '07, 19:22

uv our 31 is a crusing boat,but when we get there we get a suite hope to see you in montauck we got the king villa suite neil

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 6th, '07, 19:39

I have the 31 Express and while you may have a bit more enclosed room, (I have canvas to the back of the motor box's ) it is still tight to entertain on, unless you are fishing or hanging out on the deck.

I have used the boat to stay on for a week several times, Two adults and a pooch... its tight. Two adults and one pooch and one child... REAL tight. Two adults and one pooch and two children REAL REAL TIGHT. Two adults and one pooch and two children and a couple coming over from the mainland to spend a night, ugh you don't want to know just how tight, lots of laughs but it was great to see them go.

Its a great day boat, dinner cruise boat (as long as weather is good) fishing boat, great boat to hang out on if you staying outside. The cabin is tight for a 31 foot boat, but its a Bertram!

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 6th, '07, 19:43

Bruce may be right (about the wife not the Luhrs) and in the interests of full disclosure....yeah I am divorced. But I prefer the new lady and she loves the 31.

Good luck,

Nic

Day Tripper · Post by **Day Tripper** » Mar 6th, '07, 20:37

I thank you all for your help. But I have other concerns besides rebuilding a the 31.

I'm concerned about the 454's and gas use. What is the burn wot and at cruise? I currently have a 351 and because my boat is so small I hardly open the 4 barrel carb and gas usage is minimal at best.

I know the floor has just been replaced but the tanks are still original. Can they still be good? Does anyone have the two tanks? I think I would try to go this route so I could run the motors off seprate tanks in case one engine has a fuel problem I can still get home.

The deck cap has spider cracks in the fiberglass and I am afraid they are going to be deep and we all know the detail it takes to fix them.

Finally the hull needs to be painted desperatly!!! Any suggestions for paint. I used awl grip on my Shammie and it came out great but I am looking to go another route

Thanks again guys

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Mar 6th, '07, 20:59

Hey Mike. I'm in pretty much the same boat as you... Had a 76' 20ft Shamrock and no joke made the switch to a 1967 B31 That needs a heckofalotta work... Pretty much rebuilding the boat from the hull up, Pulled the old motors and the boat is pretty much gutted right now, and to be honest I couldnt be happier.. I plan on keeping this boat for a loooonnnng time.. Go for the Bert

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 6th, '07, 21:15

I have a 69 FBC that I coastal fish and use as a family boat (wife + 2 kids). Its great for us, and when we overnight, its at a nice marina with a restaurant and a pool, so all we need is a place to sleep. Whatever works for you--a cruisin' boat she isn't. But the money I saved in getting nd running a 31 instead of a bigger comfy boat pays for alot--a room if I want it. And that cockpit works as great inshore as it does offshore.

If you have the $$, its alot more efficient and cost effective to buy an already restored B31. I bought a running boat that needed work, and spend my winters working on her and my summers using her.

Figure about .9 mpg cruise out of the 454s. That's what I've been told. I don't have floscans and don't want 'em. I don't know about WOT, but with the secondaries open, its alot--have someone else run the boat, take the flame arrestor off, and watch. They look like toilet bowls at high rpm.

Keep the Shammy--I have a 17 Whaler that I use about 1/2 the time. I call it "guilt free boating." I'll spend all day on my Whaler with my kid, and burn 10 gallons (lots more on the B31).

Have fun. UV hit it--greatest, best looking, most seaworthy dayboat ever made.

John F.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 6th, '07, 21:24

John, I have floscans.

At 2800rpm I burn 24-26gph for .75mpg.
At WOT, 4200rpm, I burn 58gph. At that point I don't even bother looking at the mpg.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 6th, '07, 21:33

Harv-

I've told you before--I don't really want to know. If I dont' know, its less painful, and I can guesstimate. Don't rub it in just because you're getting diesels and leaving us gassers.

John F.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 6th, '07, 23:40

Must be something in the blood of a Bertram owner............I also own a 20 foot Shamrock and like it a lot............
Harry Babb

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Mar 7th, '07, 07:50

Do what your wife says before she changes her mind. The woman wants you to have a Bertram 31! Do it man!!!

Day Tripper · Post by **Day Tripper** » Mar 7th, '07, 07:57

Thanks guys for all your help!!

I guess all I need to do is put the for sale sign on the Shammie!!! I do not have enough dock space for both. I'm sure in the near future I will be asking a ton of question about how to refinish the boat.

Once again thank you

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Mar 7th, '07, 08:08

Mike,

Tiarra and Luhrs are better, both perform as good and less wet than the 31.

That is treason. And I hope UV is the prosacuting attorney at the trial.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Mar 7th, '07, 08:15

Welcome DT,

You've found a great resource here and one that will see you through owning an old boat.

Unless you have to sell, keep the shamrock. Having a project boat you'll need a water fix from time to time and some "guilt free boating" to quote JohnF.

Bertram's offered several variations of B31 (and other models). Consider the various models and pick one that fits for you. Unlike others I knew little about Bertram's before I became the steward of my B35. Ownership has proven the boat and brand's quality to me. Had I been able to reflect on the models a little more before I purchased I might have chosen differently.

For B31's I like the BihaMar or Express with a short tower with the edge going to the express for cabin room. Power it with the 240hp yanmars or 250hp cummins and you'll never worry about fuel burn and have a decent cruise speed.

Like others, I use in the summer and fix/upgrade in the winter, you can never under estimate how much time and money it takes. Though it sounds like you've already done some restore work on boats with the Shamrock and may be aware of how much TLC the target B31 needs, do yourself a favor and look around at some that have been better taken care of or upgraded. Also, this will give you a feel for popular upgrades and you may find one that you like better and is in more workable shape. The market is depressed and good time to be a buyer.

BR,
JohnD

scot · Post by **scot** » Mar 7th, '07, 08:17

She's practically beggin you to buy the 31....I'm with Brewster "do it man".

You did hit on an interesting fact that nobody talks about. 2 fuel tanks. Without twin fuel tanks on a twin engine boat...if you get bad fuel you go down with both engines. The seperate tanks for each engine is the way to go, afterall bad fuel is a very common issue.

Day Tripper · Post by **Day Tripper** » Mar 7th, '07, 08:57

The Shamrock has to go and hate to say it but that is part of the deal. We had two boat for a long time and the wife is not going for it!! :cry: So if anyone might be or knows someone who might be interested please let me know.

As far as working on her, I hear a lot of people say I use it all summer and work on it all winter but here in South Florida I have the chance to work on it all year which is a plus. I also am I high school asst. prinicipal so I have 3 months in the summer to get a jump start on the boat.

I know it is abuyers market as far as refinished boat but I know this boat well. It has been in my neighbors backyard for years and if I am going to redo a boat I want it to be this one.

Can anyone tell me how to find what number hull it is? I want it for my own knowledge

Thanks again

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 7th, '07, 09:05

daytripper
if you dont already have a 31 lined up yet, i would take a hard look at the bahia mar , motion on e bay, if your interested i can take a look for you.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Mar 7th, '07, 09:34

I am not sure I want to spend 3-4 years rebuilding a boat.

Mike,

Don't be in too much of a rush to grab the first B31 you have a shot at... While alot of guys have rebuilt their's, some to yacht quality, and have enjoyed doing so, major rebuilding is a tireing, teadious, and expensive road to go down. It takes a special type of person to stay the course of a major rebuild.

At the moment, there are a bunch of B31s on the market that are close to Turn Key and can be had for far less that what it would take to re-do one to the same level...

You've been without one for this long, take your time, research the market, do the math, and then buy one.

Without twin fuel tanks on a twin engine boat...if you get bad fuel you go down with both engines.

Scot,

That dog don't hunt... You always use both engines pretty much equally and top off fuel when necessary. If you top off 2 tanks at the same depot, you still have the same quality of fuel in each...

Very few B31s were ever fitted with dual tanks, (Doug Q is the only one I know of who had that setup & he just replaced with a single), and I don't know that Bertram ever fitted them like that at the factory.

The space alloted for the cockpit tank is relatively limited & without modification to that space, twin tanks will serve only to reduce the fuel capacity.

There really is no practical reason for a B31 to have dual tanks & would only, (nearly), double the cost and maintenance of the tankage.

Additional tankage might be a consideration for gassers...

Br,

Patrick

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Mar 7th, '07, 10:18

Personally, I've always like the fact that Bertrams (the ones under 35 feet) have had one tank on the centerline. No need to worry about one tank running unexpectedly dry, no listing due to un-even fuel load, etc...

I much prefer a single tank over a dual setup and would not change it.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 7th, '07, 18:29

Did I mention the Bayliner 45' can be had for a song?

It even has a bath tub in it. Never saw a tub in a 31.

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 7th, '07, 18:31

Day,

Hull No. is usually under the port side bunk in the form of a handwritten number and date on a piece of paper glassed in there. Hard to see sometimes so wet it down. We just re-powered to diesel and it's chalk and cheese in my opinion so maybe take Capt. Pat's words to heart.

Good luck

Nic

(That's all for now, I've gotta go log onto Bayliner45.com, get some real good ideas)

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Mar 7th, '07, 18:34

Bruce, I HAVE seen a tubb owner in a 31 a few times!

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 7th, '07, 19:16

Timmy is excluded.

Mike,
Since I travel thru N. Palm everyday to the shop from Gardens if you want me to take a look at the 31 in question, give me a call. N/C.
Bruce

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Mar 7th, '07, 21:05

Mike,

I'm in the area all the time, if you want me to take a look, like Bruce N/C. I've surveyed over 20 31's in the past 5 years. I've had a 1961 Express for 29 years and know these boats inside and out.

Guys I need to sell mine, with more knee problems and work load the boat don't get used. Any resonable offer will be considered.

1961 31' BERTRAM EXPRESS CRUISER - Hull #186

Pete Fallon

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 7th, '07, 21:15

Pete-Put the boat on blocks and go get your knees fixed. I suffered for almost 3 years with hips going bad and last season needed help getting on and off the boat. Finally decided I had to do something about it. Had one hip replaced in December and the other one will be done next week. I want to enjoy the seasons left in my life! Get 'em fixed and enjoy the rest of your life! Walter

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 7th, '07, 21:45

Petes problem is he won't stop chasing those little white balls.
And I don't mean dwarf porn.

Pete's boat is clean and the first 2 grand offer should get it.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Mar 8th, '07, 08:05

Walter,
I've already had 2 replacements on the right knee once 1999, that lasted 5 years( bone and implant collapse) and another in 2005, total rotating platform replacement with extra long implant. This time I tore the patellar tendon and one of the 2 remaining ligaments I have left. I'm running out of good bone surfaces. The boat is already on blocks for the past 3 years and golf is not supposed to be a contact sport. At 46 years the boat is going to out last my 60 year old body. Seriously the first 40 K takes it away.
Pete Fallon

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 8th, '07, 08:49

Sad day, Pete, sad day. We have a few things in common. Both have early expresses that need work and both have knee problems. Just had mine replaced, result of an accident 13 years ago. Had multiple surgeries to get to where I am. Recovery has to be gentle or (as you discovered, So did I) it will have to be repeated. I have a surgeon who understands and I believe walks on water, or at least knows where the rocks are. You want more, give me a call. Rather see one more surgery than loosing the boat. 804-438-5543.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Mar 8th, '07, 09:04

why is I excluded?

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Mar 8th, '07, 09:49

Get the 31!

Nine yrs ago I came upon the same situation. We had two boats- one sail, the other an i /o. I sold them both and we were in the market for a inboard. At the time, I was clueless as to what a BERTRAM 31 represented. I found out by accident. And there were two 31's. One needed work that I couldn't do, the other was done. I got the one that was done and never looked back.

My wife puts up with the 31 because I love it. But I made it better for her with all the things she asked for except the shower ( we use the marina facilities). It's true that I don't need diner place settings for eight! We use the boat alot as a taxi to Fire Island, NY. And one Mother's Day, we had 19 people aboard. How that for a party? Last summer the boat went 110 nm in 8 to 10 foot seas. How's that for superior performance? Many , manty times when you buy a finished boat, the electronics are just thrown in. We figure 11 grand based on new cost prices. As far as fuel burn goes, I use 16-18 gph @ 2600rpm. Going 23 knts is not to be made common knowledge.

And besides, the BERTRAM 31 is "America's Boat".

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mar 8th, '07, 10:03

Day Tripper,

Look around for the right 31. There are a lot of good deals in the marketplace like this one right here on this board:

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... d774a5b624

A diesel boat in drive away condition with a motivated seller!

But as to keeping the Shamrock or moving up to 31? Consider the Shamrock an excellent opening act to the main event.

Peter

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 8th, '07, 11:59

why is I excluded

Picking on the token Hat guy is too easy anymore. We need more creativity.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Mar 8th, '07, 12:38

Pete,

You and I talked at Lauderdale, but my Mom had a double replacement at the New England Baptist hospital a couple years ago. She is a nurse and knows her medical shit, and said before, and after that she would never go anywhere else. You might do well to check there before surgery #3. I know you were happy in November, and I am really sorry it turned worse...

Bruce, I have the enormous monster SSI 320 quart cooler, and it rides nice in the stern. Liz tells me if we fill it with hot water, then we will be the first 31 with a hot tub in the cockpit!

I am game if she is!

D

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 8th, '07, 17:30

25 inboards have dual tanks and completely seperate systems in every regard.....however like patrick says....you generally fill em both up at the same time

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 8th, '07, 17:31

well that didnt work.(wrong thread)....you go snowboardin for two weeks and forget how to post

scot · Post by **scot** » Mar 8th, '07, 19:36

Randall...your in the right thread.

This is the one that Capt Patrick "schooled" me on my opinion on twin tanks. Oh well, I'm a big boy and have owned and trained hunting dogs.

Did it ever stop snowin up there?

randall · Post by **randall** » Mar 8th, '07, 21:29

scot....thanks...im confused....i went to idaho and utah....lots of snow and warm weather...over 70 in the sun with snow on the ground yesterday at my friends house.....here its just cold....but 3 weeks till april

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 9th, '07, 15:18

And daylight savings time starts Sunday morning!!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 9th, '07, 17:52

We put a pool ( 4' blow-up ) in the cockpit for the kids to play in when dockside. Keeps them busy for hours.

Tried running with it there too, but kids get tossed around.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Mar 9th, '07, 18:10

kids get tossed around(and so does eveyone else) in a RLDT in seas over 12", so why not let them get tosed around in the pool? It's not like they are going to stay any drier out of the pool.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Mar 9th, '07, 18:44

you could also keep live baits in there and tell the kids to be careful.

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Mar 17th, '07, 20:36

Mike, I just spent a little over a year with a complete redo on my boat, and if the weather gets better, I am supposed to splash this Weds. It has been a great experience, but the amount of work that can go into 31 feet is in the category of you'll never believe it until you've done it.

The boat is a little small to stay on, but when there is a will there is a way. I was at a marina in Bay Head, NJ, a couple years back called Dale's and there was a couple who spent every weekend on a 24 or so foot cuddy with lots of canvas. They kept it at the dock, had tv, refer, ac lights, all set up with extension cords and such and they did it for years and I think they are still there every weekend in the summer. Names were Charlie and Beverly. They set up one of those canopy tents by the picnic table that was at the dock and there were about five couples who did the same thing and drank, ate and had good clean fun all summer. They were all happy as could be. As for the B-31, it has a lot more amenities than Charlie and Beverly's boat. It all depends on what you need to be happy and how resourceful you are.

PS- If you buy one that was redone you will save a ton of money and get the boat right away. Rebuilding one is a great way to turn $200 k into something you'd be lucky to get $150 for...If you think you are going to save money by fixing one up, you better call the Capt. Patrick Hotline.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 17th, '07, 20:53

Mike

As John says, it can be done. Years ago I had a friend that did it every weekend with his girl friend and her son on a 31. Remember, the Marina becomes your back yard with hopefully shower facilities, and the boat is your hotel room. Plus the added bonus is that you can fish it. Hey when I was younger I spent weekends in the Hudson Canyon on one with 5 other guys. The guy that gets the back deck is the one that has it tough. Tony Meola

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