And the winner is…..

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Apr 5th, '14, 12:52

Bob, you will like this …..Cummins 380 QSB common rales! I'm ironing out the details with John (Forked river Diesel) we will see if they live up to the hype. I was told some one is putting them in a 31 in Maryland that should be wet soon so hopefully i can get some input on props ect.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '14, 18:19

Cummins has close the "loop" with the partnership of Westport corp every town in the us that has a 18 wheeler in it will have access to cummins parts.do not listen to uninformed people .the parts for that engine are available all over the us and abroad. The billionaire T Boon Pickens has open 150 Lng stations to run the trucks on natural gas same engine with Westport injectors. Cat will go with bigger engines .buying a yanmar would be like buying a edsel,ford pinto,corvair just before they hit the skids .you choose well i am proud . This is 2014 by 2015 trucker will be rolling down the highway with LNG cummins trucks getting double the milelege and 700 miles per tank with the next step up from that motor.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Apr 5th, '14, 18:49

Gawd.... Here we go again.....

Max HP for 31 bertram

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '14, 20:19

Jimmy the props. will be very special and the engine gears installation will not be the normal.shaft angles will be reduced to 12 degrees to utilize power .cruise at 33/34 knots wot not important

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Apr 5th, '14, 20:54

And with reduced shaft angle, how are you going to swing enough wheel to properly load a 380 hp engine? Two choices: Prop pockets or make up the load with pitch. Anybody for a 12 kt idle speed? 380 hp is just plain and simple too much engine for a B31, without serious modifications...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '14, 21:36

Capt with all do respect these wheels are not in the catalog we start with cut down 23" dia wheel incidently prop pockets would destroy the boat that is not even a remote through.we need about 12 degrees so we are just going to canter the structs abit and put those engine about 1/4" off the bilge bottom.opposite a 4 cyl. Yanmar 65% of weight aft of main bulkhead your rudders and aft chine anchor the boat at all times 30 knot lock to lock 180 turns she will not chine walk a inch and steady like on a rail..

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Apr 5th, '14, 22:19

John Lane has done some nice 31 installs, like what he's done with the port risers to reduce the bend.

5kts with one 6.8 with two is my guess at just around 38 top end. The 305s would still get you close to 35 swinging a 21" wheel on 1.75 shafts and burn less then their big brothers with more tolerable in idle speeds.

Give her hell Jimmy I hope she's a rocket.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '14, 22:44

Thats pretty accurate jp a little less on two at idle like 6.4. The idea here is to pull those throttes back to 2350 rpm at that cruise speed (33) and get to use all that torque to turn those props and get fantastic fuel economy .right off the bat they will run 15% better economy then 6BTA m-2 at 370 hp due to common tail injection . I would say just a tad more then 315 hp but gain 4 knots cruise weather permitting.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 6th, '14, 11:01

Jimmy every year at the rendervous i let a few people drive. My boat to see the differance.there are 4 brothers on the bridge and 10 in cockpit and cabin.water is very rough with big waves being kick up by yacths in this photo. These are the older props and phoenix ran 38 mph i have since detuned props for economy cruiseing and wot is 35mph but cruise is 30 .here we are at greenport running 38 with 14 adults ,full tank of fuel,water. Harry babb is driving after dug did a spin.wot lock to lock 180 degree turn not a drop of water on coaming boards as you can see and not in the slightest bit squirel. Last year neil's son drove boat with 8 aboard lets see what he says.the last 3' of reverse chine must be in the water on don't go out the inlet! That is your safety factor and "rocker stopper".

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Apr 6th, '14, 13:48

Unless i'm mistaking (I could be,it's been confusing) these engines are 5.9 litre and the smallest i can get in the common rail is 380 HP, I want a healthy cruise the only time I ever went WOT was in the 2 mile inlet area then its no wake for 15 minute cool down. For idle I was told with the Cummins view gauge panel not only I can sync the engines i can remotely lower the idle to slow the idle speed

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 6th, '14, 13:56

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 6th, '14, 14:13

Jimmy that commmon rail has a baby brother but the 380hp is very popular they go to 480 hp in your configuration .this is the overwhelming favorate of any boat manufacturer using a inboard in the usa. If you wanted to go fifty you have the option of closing up the bottom go to two jack shafts and brovo speedmaster out drives . You get unlimited attack angle and if needed a low water operation boat. Those motors are not going to idle much less then 600rpm and with one in gear you are not going to go less then 5 knt with those prop configuration you really cannot have your cake and eat it.or you can listen to JP and install 305hp with them you can go with a lessor prop and idle slower.those qsb have balls ,massive torque you are not going to pussyfoot with them.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 6th, '14, 14:18

Look carfully at the wake on the last 3 feet on port side you can see the reverse chines doing there job keep her straight as a arrow along with rudders you are on rails.notice to spray out the exhaust .muffler shield put water in a perfect circullar motion and exits 10' beyond stern at 2950 rpm.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '14, 08:10

Jimmy what is the price difference at your dealer between QSB 5.9 380hp and QSB 5.9 330hp HO. Due to the differance in rating rpm. At 3000 and 2800 rpm there is going to be a significant difference in fuel economy .that would be a concern for your type of fishing. If you want to run at 40knots all day i can give you spec. And photo's but you have to tell me so before purchase because you will not need ZF gears.

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Apr 7th, '14, 09:33

Bob i'm quite confused I thought the mechanical engines were 270,330,& 370 HP and the 380 & 480 are electronic common rails, If there is a 330 common rail I believe I would go with that.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '14, 10:11

Yes QSB 5.9 (lets forget 6.7 in all our post) comes in 305 ,330,special HD 355 and 380 .go to cummins marine on line and don 't count out recon QSB. 5.9 . Like i said this is the best "small" diesel in the world essentially the cummins dodge is a QSB .and it's big brother will dominate all of north american in tractor trailers a few years powers by LNG.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '14, 12:39

Cummins DR6496 330@2800HO, 305@2600MD

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 7th, '14, 22:54

Jimmy

Looking forward to seeing your boat. I was over at John's on Saturday dropping off my props to get them re-done. Hopefully your boat will be there when I pick them up.

You will like working with John.

Greg (Thumbs Up ) is over that way also. He is toatlly re-building a 30' Ft Chris Craft. I believe it is a 75, the one Chris built to compete with our 31. Go to the back of the yard, he is in the corner as you drive through the fenced in section. You will appreciate the work he has done so far and he has just about thought of every thing.

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Apr 9th, '14, 09:13

bob lico wrote:Yes QSB 5.9 (lets forget 6.7 in all our post) comes in 305 ,330,special HD 355 and 380 .go to cummins marine on line and don 't count out recon QSB. 5.9 . Like i said this is the best "small" diesel in the world essentially the cummins dodge is a QSB .and it's big brother will dominate all of north american in tractor trailers a few years powers by LNG.

I found out the 380 can be "detuned" to 305,330,355 & 380 ( they are all one in the same) it's all in the ECM so maybe I can have my cake and eat it too! now I would like to use my struts and go to 1 3/4" shafts ,I bored my old ones before but these struts don't look like they have enough meat on them to get 1" 3/4 cutlass bearings in them, does anyone know if someone makes bigger struts?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 9th, '14, 09:20

Are you going to consider a 40 knot 31 Bertram like i mention ? You will have to decide now cause there will be no structs and no gears ordered with engines.

Joe E · Post by **Joe E** » Apr 9th, '14, 09:23

Jimmy, I believe high tide marine makes a strut that can support a 1 3/4 strut. Give Danny a call.

http://www.hightidemarine.cc/

Joe

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 9th, '14, 09:25

Yes the 380hp QSB is detuned to make other HP ratings i guess i did not explain this.you will need sae # 3 adapter

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Apr 9th, '14, 12:13

bob lico wrote:Are you going to consider a 40 knot 31 Bertram like i mention ? You will have to decide now cause there will be no structs and no gears ordered with engines.

Bob,I'm not looking for a 40 knot boat what I want is when I wan to make that long run back to the barn and its a nice day i can cruise 31-32 knots without being on the pins a few more knots at WOT would be icing on the cake, pretty much what i did with my LP's (31 cruse 33 WOT). What do i have to decide now? they are the same gears no matter what HP correct?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 9th, '14, 21:12

Jimmy

If you need to change the shaft angle you will need to go custom struts. Maybe Harry or Carl will add their thoughts, but it will probably need to be stainless.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 11th, '14, 12:49

No jimmy we do not need gears at all nor do we need structs. You will use Bravo three diesel rated outdrives with dualprops And jack shafts. Close up rudder holes,struct bolt holes and shaft logs. Nice clean bottom with stock out of the box mercruiser out drives .i have photo's of a boat that came in recendly with cummins diesels outdrives .engine boxes ,cockpit stays exactly the way it is now.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 11th, '14, 12:58

40knot cruise all day but best of all trolling one motor is a natural for brovo three units.nothing exotic just stock mercruiser props.unlimited trim angle for differant water condition or load,if need. Best low water ability you canhave on 31 Bertram ,easy to service and built for cummins diesel power.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 11th, '14, 14:40

Bob- you lost me at mounting two big chunks of aluminum off the 31's transom.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 11th, '14, 15:07

Those two chunks are the state of the art in-technology .the diesel bravo three is the real deal availuble in many ratios talor made for a Bertram 31 the master (richard bertram ) used on the 25' and 26' but no outdrive with beef was made for 454 " back in the day .this baby is rated for 400 hp and does not corrode.

JimmyG · Post by **JimmyG** » Apr 11th, '14, 19:11

bob lico wrote:40knot cruise all day but best of all trolling one motor is a natural for brovo three units.nothing exotic just stock mercruiser props.unlimited trim angle for differant water condition or load,if need. Best low water ability you canhave on 31 Bertram ,easy to service and built for cummins diesel power.

BUT....will it raise White Marlin??? Going to Forked River Diesel tomorrow to meet John then it's back to the boat to spray 5 gallons of Interlux 2000E, finally after two weeks being on my back fairing blisters!

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Apr 12th, '14, 10:46

"aluminum" + salt water does not equal "does not corrode"

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 12th, '14, 11:01

bob lico wrote:...and does not corrode.

...till it does. It's just a matter of time.

And that is not the end of the world either as you just toss and buy a new pair.

Other issue is try to sell boat and recoup some of the money put into it. You just reduced the already limited audience for our boats.

Would it work...I leave that to you. I cannot see any reason it would not with all the benefits of direct thrust and trim adjustments.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 12th, '14, 15:11

Hopefully you respect the boat and lift the outdrives when you dock it and now you can trailer the boat if need be.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Apr 12th, '14, 15:39

How do you get an outdrive out of the water unless the boat is on the hard? I have seen the tip of the cavitation plate get out or the water when trimmed up. The only think that comes to mind here is one of those mud engines you see on an aluminum boat you see jumping levees!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 12th, '14, 15:46

Hint!------- Location of the engines

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Apr 12th, '14, 18:44

Nonononono!!!!

Jack shafts + outdrives= maintenance nightmares. Ever change the bellows on an inboard????

Shafts outboard of the main tank = no fish boxes, trim pumps that fail in time, mercathode system. No thank you

Just speed for speeds sake with too much loss in longevity and space availability

The b31 is still a built down hull and space is wholly a rarity

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 12th, '14, 19:19

No argument there loss of fish boxes would kill me . I depend on that storage big time the price of speed never cheap.jack shaft maintenane mainly grease joints ,trim cylinders pita.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 14th, '14, 07:23

bob lico wrote:Hopefully you respect the boat and lift the outdrives when you dock it and now you can trailer the boat if need be.

If...if you can raise the drive high enough to clear the water, great. Although the Bell housing still sits in water.

Next, not sure how the barnacles are around you. But around here those little bastards adhere to the bellows and slice them up pretty badly. Many of the sterndrive guys leave the drives down just for that reason.

Trailering is easier...although a wide load so not sure where you are going...unless trailering in place or racking so boat does not sit in water with drives.

No argument on performance... its just that Sterndrives take away from the simplistic design of straight running gear.
Same thing with PODS...it's great idea on paper.

Just my .02

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 14th, '14, 09:03

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 14th, '14, 09:04

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 14th, '14, 09:11

i guess i am not getting my point across.this bertram for jimmy has the engines in the original location therefore entire outdrive is out of water when put in up position.theses photo`s above is a 2000 boat with outdrives in the water for 13 years ,yes he changes zincs,oil, and pressure wash every year on removal for winter.you are thinking about the other 99.99% of other installations with engine against transom.just under mercruiser nam is the label diesel for those that cannot see it.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 14th, '14, 21:44

Bob no doubt about it, the stern drives makes the boat run more efficiently. Faster, use less fuel, it prbably rides better. But is the cost worth it at the end of the day. Plus the complications.

John Swick · Post by **John Swick** » Apr 15th, '14, 06:28

Bob,
Very interesting.
How would you flatten out the transom to accept those assemblies ?
Outie or innie ?
Regards,
John

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 17th, '14, 17:33

John go outer . The price of the ZF-220 IRM gears ,shafts,structs,custom props,as opposed to Bravo three diesel comes to about five thousand more . I do not include labor in any of my posts never paid a dime in labor for fifty years for cars trucks,boats any thing on house except grass cutting till i had the 31 hull sides painted.sometimes it not easy you have to do research .note i should mention at this time things that happen on a 31Bertram at speeds beyond 34 knts. Look at the post of my 31 at Greenport rendezvous notice traditional wave pattern is gone around 33 knots and you have a rooster tail starting not so important but at that speed you also lose sonar even with high speed 1000 watt flush mount tilted element transducer that is bad in unknown inland waterways following buoys .the boat risers on it's stakes and air gets under it.however this fault may not effect others. Bare in mind at 38 knots things are happening real fast like floating pilings ,speed is not for everyone..