Batteries for Diesel Boat

[John F.]

Crows Nest has 8.2 Detroits at 300 hp--big motors compared to Anna E's 454s. She currently has 2 8ds mounted outboard of the starboard motor. Big Batteries. She also has the basic Perko switches, one of which is hard to turn and seems to have dead spots.

I'm going to stick with 2 batteries. Long explanation that I won't bore you with, but basically Crows Nest will be an inshore cruiser/striper boat with house needs consisting of a combo plotter/ff--that's it (running/instrument lights, a raw water washdown, bilge pumps used as needed only). KISS.

From what I've read/searched here, I can use Odyssey 2150s (there are a few models of 2150s--not sure which ones I should use) in place of the 8ds, and can locate the 2150s in the bilge area where the water tank is now. I'm also going to clean or get new (probably new) battery switches. Blue Seas makes heavy duty switches that are in the West catalog for about $80 each--that's what I intend to use. Sound OK?

So, plan is to buy 2 Odyssey 2150s and 2 Blue Seas switches, and to cut out the water tank and relocate the batteries to where the water tank is/was. Any advice/comments appreciated.

[Tony Meola]

John

Those 8D's are a bear to move. I know you want to stay with two, but what about going with four group 31 size batteries. Easier to handle and probably give you more cranking amps. I used replaced my Perko's with the Blue seas. Much smoothyer switch. I had my Perko's in for a very short period after I repowered. For some reason, even though they are bigger in size than the Blue Seas, the Blue Seas feel like they are better quality.

[buzzk]

I used to use 8D batteries but they got to heavy for me to move. I replaced the two 8D batteries with 4 group 31 Orbital batteries and they lasted 8 years. When it came time to replace the Orbital batteries they were no longer sold in the states. Apparently there was a patent issue between Orbital and Optimal batteries. So I put Optimal batteries in this summer.

[Mikey]

John,
You can pick up two of these with back muscles to spare and they last!
Oh, yea, they're pushing Cummins 6BTA 300's and the house. Probably could have gotten away with two batteries, but . . .

[buzzk]

when I said Optimal I should have said optima.

[John F.]

Mikey-

I saw that picture when I was searching through this battery thing. Looks great. Where is that in your boat? Is that the bilge in the salon? What size batteries are those? They look like Group31s? So, Optimas instead of Odyssey? Thanks.

John

[John F.]

I just read on BoatDiesel that the 8.2s need 900 CCA to crank. The Optima has 800 CCA and 1000 MCA.

[buzzk]

John, I have two Optima group 31 hooked together per engine. I have Cummins 6 B's in my boat.

[Mikey]

John,
They are indeed in the salon forward bilge with a common ground bar attached to the bulkhead. Here's the view from the other direction.

I bought these on line and will look up the receipt to tell you where if you like. After buying them I discovered that I should have bought the next larger size but have never had an issue and they are now about six years old.

[John F.]

Mikey-

What size are they? I understand that positive battery cables have to be a certain size depending on length and what they're carrying. Do negative battery cables have the same sizing requirements?

John

[ed c.]

I have Yanmar 315's. ! battery for each engine & a 8D for the house battery. The house battery lasted for 7 years.

[John F.]

Ed-

What size are the batteries? Acid or AGM?

Sears has group 31 AGMs that put out 1150 CCA and look a lot like Odysseys that are relatively cheap.

John

[Capt.Frank]

John,
I have a 8D for each engine and had a 8D for a inverter, but it went bad and don't use the inverter much anymore. I looked hard at the Odysseys batteries but the prices I was getting was over $300 a battery and I can get a 8D for $150 and I get 5-6 years out of them. I have had my boat for almost 20 years so could not justify the money. I like the smaller size of the Odysseys but I would leave them on stb side on your boat. I like batteries above the bilge water. That's my .02

[Kevin]

When I was in need of a house battery a friend of mine told me about the Sears blue top battery. He said it was made by the same manufacturer as the Odysseys. I compared the cases and they were very much identical from what I could tell. As for the inside I can't say. I thought there were only several major battery manufactures in the world and many companies just have there brand put on them. No complaints with the battery yet.
As for my starting batteries I am using plane old Advance Auto batteries. They are cheap and readily available to me. Group 24 for my diesels work fine. I think it is all about the quality and length of the cable installation.

[TailhookTom]

Don't forget, if you go to the Optima - you need the proper charger too -- ask me how I know.

Tom

[buzzk]

Optima's do not need a special charger.

[John F.]

John,
I have a 8D for each engine and had a 8D for a inverter, but it went bad and don't use the inverter much anymore. I looked hard at the Odysseys batteries but the prices I was getting was over $300 a battery and I can get a 8D for $150 and I get 5-6 years out of them. I have had my boat for almost 20 years so could not justify the money. I like the smaller size of the Odysseys but I would leave them on stb side on your boat. I like batteries above the bilge water. That's my .02

Frank-

I have the same concern about the bilge, but with the 8ds outboard of the engine, there is limited outboard access to the 8.2s--big V8s like you 3208s. And, while I'd like to get smaller batteries, the motors require 900 cca. Trying to figure out my options and winter projects.

Keviin-

I don't think Group 24s will do it for me. Wish they would.

Tom/buzzk

Thanks. The charger on the boat is fairly new and can handle AGMs.

John
John

[TailhookTom]

Good deal John - my 15 year old but still working fine battery charger was a very bad thing for AGM batteries - it was fine for the old fashioned 8ds though! As noted on Optima's website, my old charger significantly diminished the life of the battery -- as in fried it in about 16 months. Lesson learned!

Tom

[Mikey]

John,
Mine are group 31's. They have 900 cold cranking amps and a max of 1125. Do the job quite well for 6BTA's. Their model #: D31M. As far as the bilge, I sealed the limber holes between the cabin and cockpit so no water comes into the cabin bilge unless I'm sinking. I would probably have other issues, huh? Mine are now almost seven years old and gettin' her done.

[John F.]

Thanks Mikey. Really nice install

[Tony Meola]

John

If one will Grp 31 of any manufacturer, will not spin the engine, then just double them up. Take up almost the same space as the 8D. When sizing battery cables, you need to take the negative side into consideration as part of the run distance. So if you are running 10 feet on the positive side and 10 on the negative, you need to use 20 feet in sizing. So both sides are the same size.

I have heard good things about the sears AGM's. Have not used them.

[John F.]

Tony-

Thanks. I thought that may be the case with the negative cable, but didn't really know.

John

[ed c.]

John, my batteries are acid. By the way, it is rare when I use the dock charger.

[Rawleigh]

Optima's do not need a special charger.

Yes, they do. They are AGM batteries and need a proper charger to have a good life expectancy. They require special voltages and charging schedule from the charger to really last a long time. I got 11 years out of a set of Exide Orbitals, but I have a Xantrec charger that has an AGM mode.

[buzzk]

I learned something new. I didn't know you needed special charger and I got 8 years out of my optimas. My neighbor got 9 years on the old style charger. I guess we're just lucky.

[Rawleigh]

And I know people who got less than 2 years out of them. It depends on the use and the charger.

[buzzk]

Guys I misspoke my neighbors and I actually had Orbital not Optimas. They look the same to me. When I needed the new batteries I had to go with Optimas. I was told that Orbital lost the patent to Optima in North America and were no longer available. After reading everyone saying I needed a new battery charger for Optimas. I went to the Optima website and it said most regular lead acid chargers will work but the AGM were better. Then it says that some AGM chargers will not charge a deeply discharged Optima battery. I'm reluctant to change chargers when my last batteries lasted 8 years. What do you think?

[Rawleigh]

I don't know, but I got 11 years out of my Orbitals. They were good batteries.

[buzzk]

If I decide to get a new charger which one should I get? Rawleigh, I see that you like the Xantrec. What are the differences?

[OptimaJim]

Hello, I noticed your conversation involving our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. Optima batteries do not need special chargers. Will they perform better and last longer with modern chargers that are microprocessor-controlled. Probably, but the same would be true of any battery, whether it is flooded or AGM. Proper voltage maintenance is the key to long battery life, regardless of brand or manufacturer. Fully-charged, our BlueTops will measure about 13.0-13.2 volts. Whenever any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and left sitting in that state, sulfation will begin to form, which diminishes capacity and lifespan. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment for any vessel that doesn't see regular use.

While some chargers may have specific “gel” or “gel/AGM” settings, we do not recommend any setting that has “gel” in it, as it may not fully-charge non-gel batteries and could damage them over time. Even some chargers that do have AGM-specific settings may not deliver current to any batteries that have been discharged below a minimum voltage level (usually around 10.5 volts and not hard to do in marine applications). I can't speculate as to why Orbital batteries are not currently available, but I haven't seen any information here regarding patents involving our products that I know to be accurate.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
http://www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rawleigh]

Well, nothing like getting it straight from the horses mouth!! I respectfully withdraw my previous advice. Thanks for chiming in Jim.

[buzzk]

Thanks Jim, I may still look for a new charger but I'll wait till the Lauderdale Boat Show. Usually they have some good buys at the show.

[buzzk]

Jim, what marine charger would you recommend? I understand if you would rather not.

[Kevin]

I will throw in my recommendation FWIW. I watched a rather large number of boats get NOCO Genius chargers installed a while back. Any time I get a chance to see something like this I generally take note. Some time went by and I asked some of the folks that do the installs if they had any problems or negative feedback on the chargers as they would be the guys replacing them. I did not receive any information that would persuade me to not try it. I installed one on my boat about two years ago. I run lead acid group 24 starting batteries and my house battery is the Sears Blue top. I hope Jim can confirm or deny the relation to Optima! Now it has not been long but I have not seen any problems. It has been a little over three years since I started seeing these chargers on some of the other boats that I frequent, no issues with them either. No selector switches to worry about. Price on the 3 bank charger really is not that bad.....mid 200's I recall. My set up is really simple with a couple ACR's to juice the house while underway. Could not be happier.

[Mikey]

John, When I was considering all the alternatives during restoration the one thing that was continually impressed on me was "all batteries in any system should be of the same type." That said I would be inclined to use a charger that is specifically manufactured for the type I chose. In my case I install a Charles that had the option of using any of the three major types. On the back, where it would be inaccessible and thus less likely to be accidentally changed, is a switch to set the type installed. Seven years and she chugs right along. Same batteries getting her done!

[OptimaJim]

Hi buzzk, it's not that I don't mind recommending specific brands of marine chargers, but that any mention I might make of a specific brand could be perceived as an endorsement from Optima, which I'm not allowed to do. Fortunately, there are a lot of good options in the marketplace. We have dozens of sponsored fishermen who use quite a few different chargers and really don't have issues. However, those guys usually change out boats every couple of years, so they tend to have the latest and greatest of everything. As I mentioned before, we do recommend chargers that are microprocessor-controlled and have specific settings for AGM batteries. Again, “gel/AGM” settings are not considered AGM-specific and should be avoided with non-gel batteries, AGM or otherwise.

I know some folks would prefer to get by with the least expensive unit they can find, but when you're dealing with large batteries, often in banks of two or more, you're talking about a lot of money invested in those batteries. If a quality battery charger costs $200 more than a bargain bin unit, but extends the life of $500 worth of batteries by two years, then it has paid for itself and then some.

Kevin, while we wish we were the only ones allowed to put blue tops on our batteries, that is not the case. In fact, several different brands now offer color-topped batteries, which can sometimes confuse conversations when folks refer to a BlueTop and someone assumes they are referencing an Optima product. We never re-label, re-spec or re-brand our products for any of our retail partners, so only batteries that say OPTIMA on them are the real thing.

Mikey brings up a really good point about all batteries being the same type. Not only should all batteries in a system be identical in type, but they should also be identical in size and age, unless they are properly-isolated from each other. The reason is that just as different types of batteries have different charging characteristics (flooded vs. AGM for example), so do batteries of different sizes and manufacturing dates.

If someone wired three batteries in a bank, but one was smaller than the other two, that smaller battery could be chronically overcharged, while the other two were undercharged. Likewise, batteries are consumable items that start aging as soon as they are made. A battery that was built in 2010 will not accept a charge in the same way a brand-new battery will, because it is likely to have higher internal resistance. That is one reason why folks who only replace one bad battery in a bank of multiple batteries can end up chasing batteries issues over the next several years.

When Reid Stowe set the world record for continuous days at sea using our batteries, he had multiple banks split into isolated groups of three. That way, if there was a major malfunction while one bank was connected to the house, the other banks weren't going to get ruined. Our engineers also recommend periodically rotating the order of batteries wired in banks of three or more.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
http://www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kevin]

I must be suffering from memory loss! I had to look it up again. It is Odyssey not Optima that I meant to say. Sorry about that. Odyssey is made by EnerSys and they have the contract for the Sears brand.

If your charger is micro processor controlled and each bank (charger lead) is independent from another, I would not think mixing battery styles would matter. That may be why I don't design batteries and chargers. I guess for me the one true test will be time.