DC police boat hits, sinks, boat tied up at restaurant

[IRGuy]

A Wash DC police RIB hits and sinks a boat tied up at a restaurant on the Potomic River. No injuries. Video shows crash.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/23312993/d ... z2dhVIWcCc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bruce]

Boat drifting...........

[Rawleigh]

Hmmm! i wonder what I would be charged with if I did that??

[MarkS]

Rawleigh, We never met but if I was to hazard a guess.....................drunk driving? :)

[Mikey]

A friend from the area says that due to the poor quality of recruits in that market we are likely to see more of this.
And me just back unscathed.
Thank you, Lord.

[CamB25]

That entire stretch of the river from Memorial bridge to Georgetown is a no wake zone...home to a large fleet of floating clorox bottles, partially submerged logs, and dead bodies. It's a great spot to watch the fireworks on the 4th. Almost the entire stretch of Potomac and Anacostia rivers in the DC jurisdiction are no wake zones. Why does DC need at least one big rib with twins? Our tax dollars at waste....

[Navatech]

The RIB's outboards did a good job chewing up the fiberglass hull of that clorox bottle... But then again, from the pictures it looked like a cored hull... I wonder how a solid hull (i.e. from the vintage of our boats) Bertram would have fared...

[Navatech]

That entire stretch of the river from Memorial bridge to Georgetown is a no wake zone...home to a large fleet of floating clorox bottles, partially submerged logs, and dead bodies. It's a great spot to watch the fireworks on the 4th. Almost the entire stretch of Potomac and Anacostia rivers in the DC jurisdiction are no wake zones. Why does DC need at least one big rib with twins? Our tax dollars at waste....

I disagree... The potential for non standard criminal activity (i.e. terrorism) is exponentially bigger in that area... I can't go into details (this being an open forum) but several reasonably credible scenarios exist for this particular locality... In addition, the cost difference between a smaller RIB and a RIB of this size isn't really that great... LE should be equipped to handle (within reason) the worst that can be thrown at them... IOW, you might as well ask why the Border Patrol gets SUV's and why the Crown Vic was a popular police car...

[Carl]

Sh&T happens to the best of us.

Glad nobody was hurt...I hope it was just a stupid accident.




Kinda difficult to pass judgement or make comment from a quick snippet, but safe to say...it was a bad day for that officer.

and maybe

Look at the bright side, one less floating Clorox Bottle to deal with...

[Bruce]

Training on anything is the key.

Lots of power turned loose on a hard over steer on a relatively flat bottom boat is gonna slide.
Frankly in a professional setting there's no excuses for that.

If we are to believe they are out there for our protection from terrorist attacks, it makes one wonder just what other training are they lacking.

Some of us, and you know who you are :-), were molested by some young 20 something gun toting Coasties in NC a few years back while doing absolutely nothing wrong but running some boats.

I'm sure they were well trained too.

In what I have no idea.

[Chanse]

What I don't understand is why after colliding with the moored boat they just continued on, not stopping to
determine damage and possible injuries. Its also hard to believe how they obviously have no concept on
how to handle there boat.

[Carl]

Not stopping does appear to be a huge issue.


Then again we do not see what happened seconds after the video clip.
Nor do we know the nature of the call they answered.

Trained to the hill... mistakes can still be made, we are all human. I'd like to heAr an explanation before ripping them to shreds.


Chances are very good they are as wrong as many of us believe them to be...I'm just saying a few secound clip can be very damming without the rest of the story.

[Bruce]

Carl,
Your right we are human and do make mistakes.

But the funny thing is that phrase didn't start getting popular till the 90's. Never heard it used as a kid or young adult.

What that phrase goes along with is the excuse nobody is responsible for their actions. If that vessel operator got no training, then go up the line till you find the policy maker and hold them responsible.



When we expect the least out of people, that's exactly what we will get.

[Carl]

Absolutely not saying the person should not be held accountable.

Absolutely not saying if it was indeed a mistake all should be forgiven.



Boils down to I do not know what the reason is..I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe you are correct and the officer was not trained properly...or was and did not carry thru with his training.
Maybe officer was a Gung-Ho idiot and needs to be removed from service or have charges brought up.


But...but it is also possible it could have been a mechanical or electronic issue, health related...sneeze at the worst possible moment...I do not know...just saying I'd like to hear an explanation prior to stringing the guy up. Kinda like if somebody rear ends the car I do not get out and beat the crap out of the person...I first ask if they are okay, then inquire as to what happened, ask for registration and insurance card...then beat the hell out of them for being an arsehole. (kidding of course)

[Navatech]

But the funny thing is that phrase ("we are human and do make mistakes") didn't start getting popular till the 90's. Never heard it used as a kid or young adult.

The adage that "to err is human but to forgive is divine" precedes the 90's by decades if not more... Same goes for "human and therefore fallible"...

If the LEO lacked training then that's on his superiors... If he operated against his training then that's on him... If he had an unfortunate "sneeze" then all I can say is we all have bad days...

Yes, the incident should be properly investigated... And, if it turns out that there was negligence then an accounting should happen... Either way, this incident should become training material...

[Rawleigh]

You or I would probably go to jail. He will get "re-trained" and then get a raise.

[IRGuy]

I may be a hardass in this, but unless there is a mechanical failure or an "act of God" involved I believe anything that happens on a vessel in the way of "accidents" is the responsibility of the Captain... even if someone else is at the helm at the time. Ultimately, unless his superiors order something different, the Captain is responsible to see that his vessel is properly equipped, properly maintained, and properly operated according to the stated rules as well as he must ensure that whoever he orders to be helmsman must exercise prudent seamanship. The captain is also responsible for the welfare of his crew. Somebody on that law enforcement boat was the captain. He or she is responsible for the collision, as well as the boat's actions afterward.

[Bruce]

Frank,
No one especially gov't employees are responsible for their actions any more silly.
Someone's feelings might get hurt. After all everyone gets a trophy just for participating.

Now everyone join hands and sing we are the world.


Now sing it as a round, I'll start..................

[Kurt]

I'm with Raleigh. Any one of us in FL would probably get hair pulled, blood tested,....then, even innocent, you'd get blamed for wreckless operation or something like that.
Don't fire the guy for a mistake. But, this shouldn't happen for something stupid like chasing someone down in a no wake zone.

[Carl]

Frank,
No one especially gov't employees are responsible for their actions any more silly.
Someone's feelings might get hurt. After all everyone gets a trophy just for participating.

Now everyone join hands and sing we are the world.


Now sing it as a round, I'll start..................

So the guy running the boat should be lynched immediately. Made a public example of so that this can never happen again.
Your 100% correct in that looking at the clip it appears to be a close and shut case of pure operator negligence.

Then when and if evidence of something beyond his control should be found...just tell him and his family oops, sorry wasn't your fault.
Go back to your career...oops that's over...sorry, not my fault...it really looked like you screwed up.


Or maybe...collect ALL evidence first...including breathe analyzer, hair sample, check operation of boat...crew member testimony, testimony of witnesses, maybe watch the whole video and any other surveillance camera that may have caught more of a glimpse of what happened from a different perspective. Maybe take into account his past history, his side of the story...I do not know. I am just saying "Innocent until proven guilty". I think that phase per-dates the 90's.

If guilty and was a mistake... Life is stranger then fiction, I have had a year that proves that. I'd like to hear the mistake and how it came about...was it negligence or something beyond training and normal circumstance.


IRGuy- I agree that you are correct Captain is responsible. But was it negligence or...its the "or" that I would like to hear.


If it were me...I'd like a chance to state my case prior to be hung from my toenails in the public square.





...and those participation awards. My daughter was embarrassed to receive one...as she said what is the point we lost? I didn't have an answer...

[Navatech]

I may be a hardass in this, but unless there is a mechanical failure or an "act of God" involved I believe anything that happens on a vessel in the way of "accidents" is the responsibility of the Captain... even if someone else is at the helm at the time. Ultimately, unless his superiors order something different, the Captain is responsible to see that his vessel is properly equipped, properly maintained, and properly operated according to the stated rules as well as he must ensure that whoever he orders to be helmsman must exercise prudent seamanship. The captain is also responsible for the welfare of his crew. Somebody on that law enforcement boat was the captain. He or she is responsible for the collision, as well as the boat's actions afterward.

I believe that's the legal situation... So, no, you're not being a hardass... In fact, the captain is responsible even if it's a mechanical failure or an "act of God"...

[CaptPatrick]

I believe that's the legal situation... So, no, you're not being a hardass... In fact, the captain is responsible even if it's a mechanical failure or an "act of God"...

Don't believe it? Go ask Joe Hazelwood, ex captain of the Exon Valdeze...

[IRGuy]

Guys...

Just a small glimpse in my personal life here comes to mind.. from a looong time ago...

My stepfather was a chief engineer on tugboats when he married my mother.. He was on a tow bringing several cement barges from Savannah to New York City.. for reasons unknown to anyone but him he started acting strangely, telling another crew member a third crewmember "Was out to get him".. apparently he was also acting irrationally, to the point that the captain relieved him of duty, but did nothing more. He was next seen naked on the fantail wearing a life preserver. One of the crew went to the captain telling him what he saw.. when they went to speak to him he was gone. He was later seen floating by a Coast Guard plane, but when the tug returned to pick him up he had died.. apparently from exposure.

I was advised to sue the company he worked for, and met with a highly regarded admiralty lawyer in NYC.. I recall asking him how could the captain be responsible for the actions of a crewmember who appeared irrational. Without going into more details it appears that once the captain was informed of his mental state, which was verified by the captain's relieving him of duty, the captain, as master of the vessel, had a duty to take whatever actions were necessary to protect my stepfather (even from himself!) and all the other crew members. I remember the attorney reading to me from the first page of a big book on admiralty law he kept on his desk.

After so much time passing I am not sure of the exact wording, but as I recall it he said..

"The Captain has the responsibility for the actions of his vessel, and the well being of his crew, second only to God."

[Bruce]

no where in any of my posts do I call for lynching the boat operator.

i'm just tired of the excuse factor that seems to be built into modern society especially when dealing with gov't employees.

[Navatech]

i'm just tired of the excuse factor that seems to be built into modern society especially when dealing with gov't employees.

From what I have been able to discern, it is my impression that very few if any of the members accept that factor...

[Rawleigh]

Carl: I am just saying that if it were you you would have been charged criminally with something by the police! They do it and it is just an Oops!