Hurth HSW 800 gear failure

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 31st, '07, 18:37

Just an observation to those who are looking at bigger boats and power.

I saw my 15th failure of the 800 gear behind a Cummins 6BTA370 on the port side today. Gear literaly self destructs at around 500 hours.

It is in boats that weigh in at 36,000lbs.

ZF claims the gear will standup. But my view is the HSW 800 is not rated for the above combination of power, boat weight and rotation.

But what the hell do I know other than a pile of metal that used to be a gear box..............

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 31st, '07, 21:40

Bruce
Why would anybody want to crank 370 horsepower out of a "B" series engine. I realize that this question has nothing to do with the gear failure. I know a guy that works for Cummins and has worked for them for years on end. He tells me that its possible to crank well in the excess of 400 HP out of the "B" but things start happening like head bolts streching and gaskets blowing just for starters.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 31st, '07, 22:09

Think the latest version is at 420 hp QSB. The big jump in power came from common rail technology. Who knows where it will end. Did anyone ever think you could get a 671 detroit to 525hp it started at 210 (sound familiar).
If it weren't for the emission standard these things have to meet that little B series would be higher.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 31st, '07, 22:17

Are we talking about he 5.9 Liter Cummins engine???
Harry Babb

scot · Post by **scot** » Jan 31st, '07, 22:32

JP,

The 6V92TI went to 700+hp. In my humble opinion most engines (gas or diesel) can live a fairly normal life up to "1 hp per 1 cu inch". The 671 is 426 cu....525hp is tooooo high. The only "spoiler" of this scenario is the 3208 CAT. 600+ cu, but not so great above 375hp, offered to 400+hp.

But it is easier to get big HP numbers out of DD's....but you also get BIG weight and noise numbers!

Isn't the 6B around 400cu?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 31st, '07, 22:42

Scot
I believe that the 6B is about 362 Cubic Inch displacment.
Harry Babb

34Hatt · Post by **34Hatt** » Feb 1st, '07, 09:16

It is 5.9 and the 370 is Metric it is actually 355 hp. It is on the edge of the 1 hp per cu in but they have a good rep for staying together.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Feb 1st, '07, 15:07

Diesel engines to function at their best are supposed to be run at about 200 rpm below WOT as I understand it. Properly propped, at 200 under, you get your "cruising speed" and, like it or not, your idle/trolling/docking speed. If all that is true and you decide to put a pair of 370's into a B-31, it would seem to me that you had best live in a area where sea conditions allow you to commonly cruise at 30+ kts and troll and dock at 5-7 knots. On the slow end, trolling valves are the solution to getting you slower, but running your diesels 6-800 rpms lower than what they're rated at in order to keep your back in one piece, to say nothing about damaging your crew and tackle, would seem to be shortening the life of your engines rather than extending them as might be the case if they were gassers. In this man's humble opinion, a pair of Cummins 6bta 250's are a lifetime investment in a B-31 with all the comfort, flexibility and power one would ever need from a boat. 370 hp engines in a B-31 are an expensive addition of unneeded power, but probably are a selling aid if you want out of boating. I think they'd be perfect in a B-35 or 38. Horsepower choices in diesels and the proper selection of transmissions are properly made by acknowledging how you are going to use the boat. Underutilizing a high HP diesel engine is NOT like underutilizing a high HP gasoline engine. Walter

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Feb 1st, '07, 15:31

Walter, 370 is probably a waste in a RLDT, but a tubbbbb, well thats a pig of a different color.

Doug Crowther · Post by **Doug Crowther** » Feb 2nd, '07, 10:41

Timmy,
Since you went there, what color are you going to paint your pig ?

Sea Foam green, Fighting Lady yellow, Palm Beach blue ? I know it has to be some girly pastel.......

Doug

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Feb 2nd, '07, 10:48

doug
watch that fighting yellow lady crap, after all you have some of that color on your boat. lol

Doug Crowther · Post by **Doug Crowther** » Feb 2nd, '07, 11:28

Charlie,
I repainted last spring- she's Flag Blue now. I had to do some extra fairing where your boat banged mine up.
LOL
Doug

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Feb 2nd, '07, 12:34

nice, hopfully mine will be going under the gun in the spring along with the bottom being soda blasted, whats your addreess so i can send the bill. lol

steve miller · Post by **steve miller** » Feb 4th, '07, 10:59

Doug & charlie,
Are you guys referring to that little fender-bender that happened in Montauk? In 2003? Jeez, and I thought elephants had long memories!!

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Feb 4th, '07, 11:11

its all in fun steve

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 4th, '07, 12:20

charlie i have my own opinion on the sand blast theory.oakdale yacth is a large yard with 4 locations .they are a yammar dealer and serviced 1156 boats last year.they are rather adament on the sand blasting of a older boat THAT HAS A FIBERGLASS BOTTOM.the idea is don`t use soda or plastic buttons,walnut shells.blast it with sand remove all paint and slightly etch the gel cote.take a moisture reading in 10 place.remove raw water intakes.then let it sit on blocks for a few months.we did mine and the meter showed 7 to 10 in and around water intakes ,a 41 haterass was done next to mine showed 27 on up.i checked mine some months later and it read 0 all over.then i sprayed two coates of barrier coat (yea move the boat support 4 times).then bottom paint.the fbc weights under 10,000 without cockpit deck and engine covers.with 330 cummins and genny.i belive soda blast and removal of paint only does not allow the moisture buildup from blisters or osmossis to dry up

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Feb 4th, '07, 17:27

thanks bob
thats the 2nd time ive heard of walnut shells, can any blaster do this or is it a specalty

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Feb 4th, '07, 18:16

Claret, you heathen. And don't go runnin that color down or the proff will kick yuor ass.
mailin the brid wings tommorow, if I rember

Doug Crowther · Post by **Doug Crowther** » Feb 4th, '07, 19:47

Claret-strong color. Good choice.

Got a qoute on a new 4 sided enclosure, stamoid,strataglass,goretex thread,spiral/coil zippers changing the lower edge to plastic track with a zipper a couple inches up so the panel can be removed and winter canvas switched in yesterday at the boat show. Its a large mobile rig out of S.Jersey and they come down, patern, sew, fit, finish all in one trip.
Quote including the winter canvas pieces was $3400. Thats about $1500 cheaper than the locals wanted and about 5 months less waiting. They wanted pictures of the half tower before confirming price so took some today. They wanted to knock it out this week-awesome !

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Feb 4th, '07, 20:23

That is a super price for those materials. I paid more than that about 3 or 4 years ago. One of my YKK spiral zippers on the back enclosure of the f.b. lost a few of its Delfin teeth in Katrina and my canvas guy is gonna fix it by and by. He's down the street from the camp, so no big deal. The whole canvas suite is holding up really well - the Stamoid fabric is the cats meow - nothing sticks to it and it feels like silk, very supple, even in the cold. The gore tex thread is probably the best improvement in this stuff. My Strataglss still looks like new other than the one small slit it suffered in the Katrian diaster. I figure the whole deal will last at least 10 years with it out in the weather. Money well spent.

On your "U" roll-ups, get them to pad the hold-up straps with fleece to keep from scratching the Strataglass, works great on mine.

Cold, cold, cold and a ton of rain here in Coonassland - have only turned the heater off in my shop ONE day since Christmas......ready for some shorts & t shirt weahter. Did not even start AJ this weekend, just too cold, and those Cummins hate cold weather as much as me.

Heard they tagged 77 marlin at TSL last week.....dreaming of the place right now.....

I'm planning a minor UVI/Corrosion X tourney out of Venice, LA for the Tues & Wed after Memorial Day if anyone is interested.......billfish only, usual rules....

UV

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Feb 4th, '07, 21:00

Doug-Ask them if they'd be interested in some work in Montauk this spring. Walter

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Feb 4th, '07, 21:08

I figure the whole deal will last at least 10 years with it out in the weather. Money well spent.

Doug,
UV's got the right idea. Keep that Strataglas out of the weather as often as you can. Under the best conditions it begins to get tough to see through in 3 or so years. The Strataglas also loosens up over time and should be adjusted. We have it on Chimera and I've tightened it twice in 6 months. On the big boat its garbage in 5 years (that's in the sun all year Fl and up north)
You got a great price so its worth it. AC was a nice show.

bmendenhall · Post by **bmendenhall** » Feb 12th, '07, 22:19

Hey UV,

May need a little work on the glass on our B 31. If I took the boat to the Tickfaw would your neighbor be able to work on it? Thanks, Brian

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Feb 13th, '07, 10:37

Brian, I doubt it since he's sorta retired from the canvas business. Give me a call and I might have some ideas. 800 260 9908.

UV

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Hurth HSW 800 gear failure

Hurth HSW 800 gear failure

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