lead or steel scrap for float test

[CamB25]

I preparing to float test my reconfigured B25 in early January. I do expect it to float! The primary purpose of the test is to check static trim with the large mass pieces (engine, tank, console, batteries) in place and make any adjustments fore and aft if the trim is off. To simulate engine and other major loads I am considering using 50 lb. lead pigs or steel plates (45 lb barbell plates would be perfect). I'm wondering if anyone knows of a source for lead or steel scrap in the DC/Baltimore area or south to Wilmington, NC. I need approximately 2000 lbs. I would love to rent/borrow rather than buy as it's a one time test. I open to other suggestions as well. I could use water barrels to simulate the fuel load (130 gal fuel tank= approximately 100 gallons of water= 20, 5 gallon buckets). The lead or steel would be perfect for simulating the engine on the bracket 600 - 900 lbs.

thanks
Cam

[captbone]

Two or three garbage cans with drum liners/contractor bags filled with water. No lifting and very cheap.

[Carl]

CamB25,
I can set you up with scrap turning and/or chunks of steel, brass stainless etc. You could keep the scrap, but chunks would have to be returned.
Down side is chunks, bars, drops all vary in size and would have to be weighed or have weight calculated.
Plus they have been sitting on shelves for a good time in a machine shop environment so expect dirty with sharp edges.

I do think Capt Bones idea is much, much better. Once you have volume its a quick calculation. plus EZ to Fill EZ to MT.

But if you want Steel and the like, want to take two treks up to Staten Island...I'm an option.
PM, email or call 917.952.7703
Carl

[CamB25]

Thank you both for the insights. Water will be easier to work with. I need about 14 cubic feet (100 gals) on the engine bracket to get 800 lbs. 2 55 gallon drums. I need to fab a steel platform that can bolt to the outboard bracket and support the drums. This all probably a waste of time and effort as my engine choices are limited based on dealer support in my area...Yamaha 300 or Verado 300...maybe a Yamaha 350, but I think that's overkill. The center console and fuel tank positions are fixed...the only significant weight variable will be the battery locations and their location is inside the center console right now, just forward of the boat's CG. I've run out of room to maneuver. If I have a static trim problem, I'll have to add ballast somewhere.

here's a shot of the current condition!! Deck panels are fabbed and ready to install.

[Pete Fallon]

Cam25,
You could also use sand bags, that's what Ric used when he re-did his 31. They also come in handy if you live near the ocean.
Pete Fallon

[Ironman]

got any big buddys??

[CamB25]

My biggest buddies owe me money and are, therefore, hard to locate! Ha!! It would be a kick to rope them all together and have them perched on the outboard bracket...in January!!

First deck panel is in!!!

[Capt.Frank]

Is that dual fuel fill? I like that Idea if you trailer the boat. Regulator does it and it a nice feature. Looks good.

[Bob H.]

Cam thats a serious stringer grid. Made of coosa? Id go with plastic barrells with threaded caps for your weight test. I just picked up a couple from a local carwash, the soap they use are shipped in 55 and 30 gallon drums, when you get done you can use them for livewells.BH

[CamB25]

Thanks, guys. Yes, dual fills/vents, single tank for some extra convenience. Actually its an artifact of my inability to decide between a single and twins on this boat.

The stringers are Bertram originals. We cut down the center stringer to make the tank bed and the floors for the center console and lounger out front. Added bulkheads here and there as well. The outboard stringers have been tabbed, both sides, the full length, with 1708. Stringers will be used as rigging tubes. Everything has a heavy coat of Adtech epoxy (white). 2500 lbs worth of flotation foam outboard. We added a strip of 3/4 coosa to the top of the main stringers to raise the deck. Scuppers will be raised to match. Full width transom seat is being fabbed with 25 gal. aquarium front live wells port and starboard. Bow thruster, of course, because I found it for cheap at the pawn shop. The list goes on and on.....the project has taken on a life of its own.

Cam

[ianupton]

Cam - Looking good.

I like the dual side fuel fill.

I went back and forth on foaming before the sle went down.

In the end, I put sole down and wil foam after. Plan is to lift bow to a silly angle and fill from multiple holes that will temporarily be cut into sole. I'm hoping I get a voidless foam underneath.

We shall see.

Ian.

[Rocket]

Ian, when I foam filled my 20, we just used a hole saw to cut holes every 24" on both sides of the sole from aft to fore. We then filled expanding foam, allowed it to bubble out the holes then moved to the next one, we were careful not to overfill which would potentially crack the sole. once the foam was cured, we cut the foam off and glassed the holes back in using the cut outs. I am pretty sure there are no voids.

[ianupton]

Thanks Rod.

I'm pretty sure that's what will be done. I think putting the hull at an angle will cause the expansion to move forward in a controlled manner.

Unfortunately I will not be around to see or do this part of the project.

Cheers.

Ian.

[CamB25]

We wanted to ensure that any water that might (will?) get into the closed cavities had a direct path to the bilge. There is a narrow channel between the stringer and the foam aft of the tank fill cavity that runs to the OEM drain in the stringers at the transom. Forward of the tank fill is fully sealed. No deck penetrations are planned outside of the stringers. The foam is there for added flotation protection and to improve ride quality. I don't understand the rationale for the "void-free" goal.

Controlling the cure rate of A/B foam is tricky...it will flow until it starts to kick and then your're done. Rocket's method probably has the best chance of success.

[catchthis]

hi, I am currently redoing a 63' 25 bertram and am wondering if you have any tricks for removing the cap. I know there are wood screws every third screw but there are bolts in between. I removed the wood screws but still need to remove the bolts. I know the cap is also riveted to the hull under the rub rail but I have yet to get that far. Do you have any tips? the cap is shot and the boat is in a lot of pieces right now! I am converting it from an express cruiser to a cc inboard diesel. Nice work on yours so far!
Kyle

[Carl]

Best trick I learned about pouring the foam...don't do it when there are people around.

My first attempt, take a peek, nobody around so I mixed a small batch to individually fill several voids. Stirring vigorously while counting down the seconds and get a "Heh Carl". I'd try to ignore but never seemed to work, "need a hand, what you doing?"...missed the count, foam kicked off and I'd have to run it off boat as foam grew out top of container. After a half dozen miss fires, I opted to grab a beer and come back early morning just after the fishing crowd left. That went flawless.

[CamB25]

Kyle,

Removing the cap is a chore. If you were able to remove those wood screws you must have "skills"! Those are the 2nd toughest part!

1. Completely strip interior of boat - everything.
2. There are one or two layers of 4" fiberglass tabbing that join the hull to the cap. You need to cut through this tabbing - all around the boat. This is a real PITA, especially in the bow area.
3. Cut off the nuts that hold the rub rail to the cap. These are underneath the tabbing. Drive out the machine screws. rub rail should fall off boat.
4. Drill through all rivets and remove wood screws that hold cap to hull
5. Cap should be loose now. Use a block of wood and a rubber mallet to free the cap from the hull.

If you are interested in a boat that is nearly done, albeit with an outboard configuration, send me a PM.

[catchthis]

Ok, thank for the advice, I was able to remove the wood screws by using a ratchet with a flat head screw driver head in a socket. I thought about removing the glass tabbing that covers the bolts on the inside, I guess it needs to be done anyway to remove the cap? My only other idea was to take a small hole saw bit (just big enough to clear the nut) and hole saw each machine screw out. I do like the idea of cutting the nut off, did you just take a grinding wheel to it? As for the boat, where I work we build/restore boats on the side and this is just one of those projects. Thank you for asking about a hull but we are doing this because we happened to have a b25 hull and a dream! A lot of work ahead of me, so far the cabin,deck, motors,tanks, and tar removal have been completed! I also chipped the old bottom paint. We are flipping the hull over and removing ALL of the old gelcoat as it is crazed badly. Still a lot of work, but the tear down is almost complete minus the cap which will be after the hull will be righted again!

[CamB25]

Kyle,

good plan - flipping the boat to work the hull and bottom!

All tabbing must be removed or cut through along the seam line to remove the cap. I did not save the old rub rail. I cut the heads off the machine screws with a grinding wheel, cut a small slit in the tabbing at the nut locations, then drove the screw and nut with a drift pin from the outside in. Drilled out the rivets and screws, cut the tabbing all around, and popped of the cap. I used every tool in my shop from grinders of all sizes, to chisels and a hammer to get the tabbing off. Reall pain.

Good luck with the project!

[catchthis]

Thank you for the advice, it will be another week or two before I'm able to work on the boat again since I work at a christmas tree farm around this time of year. not sure if I'm going to take the rub rail off before we flip it or after it is flipped back over.

[Rocket]

Has anyone tried a reciprocating saw for this task? I have used them in places that are hard to reach and have bolts. When I was restoring my B20, I used it a fair amount for cutting in awkward places. Also when trying to minimize dust or sparks. In tight spaces, you can bend and break lots of blades, but there are many times I have found that a sawzall is the only tool for the job.

[catchthis]

That was my plan of attack, the sawzall has become my best friend on this project! I plan on using the methods talked about above but will most likely be cutting the glass with a smaller sawzall we have so its easier to handle.
Kyle

[Rawleigh]

One of the vibratory cutters (copy of the Fein tool) would be good for cutting the tabbing. You are less likely to damage anything with it than you would with the sawzall and it will get in tight locations.

[CamB25]

If you have compressed air, the best tool is a small, right angle cut-off tool for most of the tabbing. I never bought the big compressor to power air tools.

I used everything in the tool box (no air power). The Dremel or Fein vibrating tools work well. Bosch makes a good one, too. I smoked the Dremel on the last inch of tabbing...poof!! In the bow you will quickly run out of room for almost any tool. The hull tapers to a point where it meets the cap. I used an electric drill with a long, flexible extension cable with a small cut off wheel...and a sharp, cheap chisel.

I would avoid the sawzall. I have a nice saw kerf through my hull where someone got a little too agressive with the saw while cutting the deck out. Hull is strong, but thin.

It's work. Enjoy!