Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Dec 23rd, '11, 11:25

Looking for commentrs about replacing my undersized B28 rudders with the oversized rudders. Are there any secrets in removing the old and replacing with oversized that I hope I can purchase from Capt Patrick?

Boat is high and dry and I will measure for clearance from boat bottom to ground hoping that I'm blocked high enough.

Is there any sequence in dis-assembling old rudders? Do they come out easily or do i need persuade it with some blunt force?

Like to hear your comments before I get started.

Thanks and Season's Greetings!

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Dec 23rd, '11, 11:55

Wursty,

I've had my rudders off several times and it's no big deal if you are hauled. I've even done it on the lift with a small boat tied up under the rudders to catch the rudder. Once you loosen the packing nut and remove the tiller arm and the loosen the set screws on the bearing, it should almost fall right out. I've had to coax it with a rubber mallot once, but you have to be carefull of hitting it with a hammer because the top of the shaft will mushroom out since it is brass.

Just dont undo anything while she sits in water unless you want to dive for the rudder.

Dick

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Dec 23rd, '11, 12:08

Like Dick said--easy. And Capt. Pat's rudders make an amazing difference. You need to be blocked pretty high, or if you're not on asphalt, you can do like I did and dig a hole under each rudder. Have packing stuff handy to repack.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Dec 24th, '11, 01:09

Wursty,
No big deal, rudders should drop right down after undoing the arms, set screws and stop collar if it has one. If the rudder ports are worn or elongated at the bottom I would have a couple of Derlyn collar spacers made to take up any sloppyness, cheaper than buying new rudder ports. Big rudders make all the difference in the world when docking and slow trolling, you will find it's one of the best up grades you can do to a 31. While your at it check to make sure that the steering ram and ball joint are still in good shape, the last 2 31's I surveyed had bad ball joint at steering ram ends and fittings were badly corroded.

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Dec 24th, '11, 04:17

Blocked high enough? I know a guy that dug a hole!

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 24th, '11, 11:00

Ditto what the others have said, a huge improvment, especially going from the B28 style rudders like I did. While you have the rudders out, its a good time to check & change your rudder flange bearings - a short money deal from a place like Grainers. When we removed my old B28s we had to use heat on one to break the collar loose, even after soaking with CX for a few days. Use a good never-seize when putting it all back together. Coat the flange bearings with grease or HD CX.

UV

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Dec 29th, '11, 09:02

@Skipper Dick:

"I've even done it on the lift with a small boat tied up under the rudders to catch the rudder." Did you not like the small boat?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 29th, '11, 22:12

Maybe Capt. Pat can offer a suggestion, as to how long the shaft should be after the strut. A 28 in the yard where I am, has to drop his rudders on his 28 in order to pull the props.

His boat was repowered with Yanmars and the shop that did the job left the shafts too long. I know the yard had the shafts cut down so the prop would not hit the rudder but he can not pull the props without dropping the rudder.

cmccool · Post by **cmccool** » Dec 30th, '11, 10:50

I can't pull my props without dropping my rudders either on my 1973 B28. I have 1" of shaft between my strut and prop which is pretty much right on recommended.

I know some of the guys can pull their props no problem - makes me kind of jealous actually.

Not sure if Bertram changed the strut and\or rudder location at some point in time.

Cliff

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Dec 30th, '11, 10:51

TailhookTom wrote:@Skipper Dick:

"I've even done it on the lift with a small boat tied up under the rudders to catch the rudder." Did you not like the small boat?

Well, to perfectly honest, it was a plastic kayak and I had a line around the rudder to let it slide gently into the kayak. It was my wife's kayak, so I had to be gentle with it or face certain death.

Dick

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 2nd, '12, 14:11

Thanks men for the encouragement. I'm sending the check to Capt Patrick tomorrow. Sprayed a lot of lub and Corrosion X all over the rudder posts so next weekend I'll start dis-assembling them. Hope they come apart and slip out without resistance. Stand by.

Also might need to either jack up the boat 2" or may be tilt her slightly to get the new rudders in. Capt Pat sez 30.5" clearance. Can't dig a hole...checked it out with the yard they said no way to diggin in their new asphalt. Stay tuned.

Can't wait for shake down this Spirng '12 with new rudders.

Happy New Year!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jan 2nd, '12, 20:53

Wursty

On my 31, they froze to the bearing. So, we took the old sawzall to the rudder shaft. Out they came. Figured I was replacing them anyway.

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 9th, '12, 11:54

Started removing the port side rudder this weekend since it was mild in the Northeast. The dang thing fought me the entire way starting with rusted nuts and bolts holding the upper flange bearing. After busting them off the flange bearing was welded with rust to the shaft. Had to cut the flange housing but the bearing's inside race was now rusted to the shaft. So I tried a puller but it didn't budge. Tried heat but bad idea with all the WD40 and Corrosion X I was getting flame flashes. Took out the Sawzall and cut the shaft below the bearing and out it came. Should've took Tony's advice sooner and it would have been a 30 minute job. Will cut out the Starbourd next weekend.

My question is where should I look to purchase a replacement upper flange bearing assembly? Do they make them in stainless?

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 9th, '12, 11:58

Another interesting discovery, the packing nut was imprinted with a Chris Craft logo with various numbers also stamped into the bronze. Anybody seen this before? I will try to post pics once I figure out how to??

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jan 9th, '12, 13:15

At the sandbox's suggestion, when I replaced my rudder bearings I got them at your basic bearing place. I kept after them witn CX, and they were fine for years. I went through the same thing when taking my old rudders out---the inner race was fused to the rudder post. PIA

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Jan 9th, '12, 15:56

i got my stainless bearings at my local bearing supply house. The bearings were nylon with stainless races. I've had the rudders off several times since I replaced the bearings with the rudder shelves several years ago, but I would still coat them heavily with some CX.

Dick

Hyena Love · Post by **Hyena Love** » Jan 9th, '12, 17:19

I bought mine at Grainger.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Jan 9th, '12, 18:31

Bought mine from Danny at High tide, stainless less maintenance issues, also installed drip free logs , trying to keep the bilge dry

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 9th, '12, 18:35

The bearings that you guys are talking about......what part or parts of this bearing is made of Stainless Steel?

hb

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Jan 10th, '12, 09:58

Harry, the ones I used have heavy nylon housing and the bearing part and the grease fitting are stainless. A similar unit is a Kilian KNR-FL204-3/4 No Rust 2 Bolt Flange Assembly.

(Actually it would be the Kilian FL205 1 for the rudders.)

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 10th, '12, 11:32

I will go look at them Skipper......I have heard folks on our board here talk about them in the past but never knew for sure how the bearings are made.

hb

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Jan 10th, '12, 11:42

Wursty-
I pulled my rudders last season the check 'em out and clean 'em up. The rudder port cap nuts were stamped Chris Craft as well. Some sort of a "C" stamped over a "W" logo too if I recall. Real heavy cast jobs. I have a 1971 FBC. I'll see if I can find any photos too.
Cheers,
Stephan

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Jan 11th, '12, 05:34

Harry,
The bearings were more than likely Wilcox-Crittenton(spelling) most of the running gear, thru hulls and sea cocks that used as OEM were purchased by Bertram from that company, not Chris Craft, it's not unreasonable that someone might have put in parts from Chris Craft over the years but more than likely Wilcox- Chrittenton made parts. My original parts were all W/C.
Pete

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 16th, '12, 13:12

Skipper Dick, I was looking at that Nylon/Thermoplastic bearing flange with SS bearing components and wonder if you have any comments about the the wear & tear and how they are holding up in the marine enviroment? I'm thinking of going that with them versus the entire SS flange & bearing setup.
Any comments will be welcomed. Thanks,

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Jan 16th, '12, 13:21

I've had these bearings on my rudders for about 4 years now. I grease them and inspect them thoroughly about every 90 days and have noticed no wear at all in the time they have been installed.

I was a little leary at first and almost didn't do it because of the price and the fact that the weather down here beats the hell out of everything. although these are protected from direct sunlight, it still gets pretty warm below deck with the semi tropical sun beating down. I think they are the cat's meow. I think I paid about $55.00 a piece for them at my local bearing store.

Dick

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 23rd, '12, 13:53

I received the new rudders from Capt Pat and will start re-assembling portside if the NE weather cooperates. Below are some pics of the old stuff from portside.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 23rd, '12, 14:05

wursky
nice looking fbc, gas or diesel

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 23rd, '12, 14:23

Charlie,
It's repowered with 330 cummins. Last fall turned 1,000 hrs. Most work done between '96 - '98. New geni in 2010. I got the boat in '03 and put all the fishing components on her. Previously used for cruising the Chesapeake. Hope to make the 2012 rendezvous.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Jan 23rd, '12, 14:40

excelent, look forward to it

Wursty · Post by **Wursty** » Jan 30th, '12, 09:30

I have both new rudders ready to be mounted back onto the boat. Before I install them are there any reccomendations as to what to do with preparing and painting the stainless rudders. Should I coat with Interlux Interprotect 2000 as a primer and then use antifoulant or is there some other primer and paint combination that i should consider? Any suggestions are welcomed.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 30th, '12, 11:13

Patrick is gonna kill me for saying this.....but when I got my rudders from him they were so pretty I decided to polish them vs. painting them. I took a 4" side grinder with some 120 grit and put a helluva shine on 'em, then used steel wool to get 'em even slicker. Patrick told me I was nuts, he had his guy who builds them go to a lot of trouble to rough them up to hold primer, etc. But I'm not always a good listener.

My boat stays most of the time in fresh water and I keep the rudder zincs in good shape, change 'em when they get past half gone. I was one of the first to get his rudderss and to this day they are still as shiny and pretty as the day they went on the boat.

Shiny rudders raise fish.....

Sorry Ole Fart, but its true. Too pretty to paint......

UV

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jan 30th, '12, 17:37

Vic wrote:and put a helluva shine on 'em, then used steel wool to get 'em even slicker.

Uhmmmmmm! ! ! ! ! Guess I'd better get me some "Pledge" and Scotch Brite.......I have not painted my bright new shiney rudders......and really did not want to either....

A "Friend of Mine" (not a mobster) had his propellers Copper Plated....something he read that the Navy did/does. His boat is docked at Dauphin Island....really salty water.....and has no barnacle problems at all.

But then again DeNada has NO bottom paint at all and in some places its just bare glass and I have not had any marine growth in over 4 years now.......Uhmmmmmmm! ! ! amazing????

hb

Calva · Post by **Calva** » Oct 30th, '19, 17:01

Don’t know if this old post is still active but I’m looking for replacement rudders for a’72 B31 I just bought. I called the number Capt. Patrick has on the this site, but it doesn’t ring. Disconnected? does anyone know if they are still available?

pschauss · Post by **pschauss** » Oct 30th, '19, 19:14

I just bought a set from Bobby Soles Propeller (www.bobbysolespropeller.com) (561-848-6678). I plan to install them when I have the my boat out this winter.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 30th, '19, 20:27

For rudders Bobby Soles is the go to guy. He made the rudders for Capt. Pat. They are no longer available through this site.

Calva · Post by **Calva** » Nov 1st, '19, 13:50

Thanks guys. This is great news because Bobby Soles’ place is in W. Palm Beach and I’m in Florida. I really appreciate the help.

pschauss · Post by **pschauss** » Nov 1st, '19, 16:40

Mine are sitting in my garage waiting until my boat goes into the yard later this month. Lead time was about three weeks from the time I placed my order. I’ll let you know how they worked out in the spring.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 1st, '19, 20:53

pschauss wrote:Mine are sitting in my garage waiting until my boat goes into the yard later this month. Lead time was about three weeks from the time I placed my order. I’ll let you know how they worked out in the spring.

Peter

You will see a difference. Can run on one engine at low speeds and still get her to go straight and turn.

bertram31.com

Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Rudders

Re: Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Re: Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Re: Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Re: Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Re: Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Re: Rudder Replacement on 1972 B31 with 330 Hp Cummins

Who is online