Steyr250 or cummins reman270

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Dec 9th, '11, 13:40

Found a a pair of 250 steyr with integral flywheel
And transmissions for 35000 year 2008 unused

Also found a pair or remans cummins 270 with gears
And gauges etc for 41000

I'm in south Florida does not seem to be a lot on knowledge on steyrs
Down here

Does anyone have any info on the comparing the two

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 9th, '11, 13:52

They are both good engines. Get a hold of Bruce, he knows Steyrs very well as well as Cummins

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Dec 9th, '11, 15:29

And Kevin has a pair of Steyrs in his boat.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 9th, '11, 16:21

No contest - go with the Cummins. The other ones don't have a decent dealer & parts network, are unproven, unknown (resale?).....The Cummins 270 is in my view the best engine - period - for the B31. It has a fresh water cooled aftercooler that requires no maintaince vs. the higher hp Cummins whcih use sea water and are a PITA to keep up. The remans, if they are really Cummins factory remans, are virtually new engines.

I have 1989 Cummins 250s, whcih are the same engines as the 270s (with a few upgrades) and they have been flawless. 2650 rpm WOT, 28+ kts, cruise 24 kts all day long at 2400 buring 16 gph total. Get 1.5 gears and I trun 21x22 nibral 3 blades. Inch & a half shafts are a good idea.

Easy choice.

UV

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Dec 9th, '11, 18:52

Objection your honor!

I like the Cummins just as much as the next Bertram guy.
They have been mainstream for a long time. 6B series seem to be tough as nails. 180HP in a square tug or Bob's high HP the 6B just work great.

Steyr probably been around longer......just not in the states so they are taboo to some. Do some digging and the history behind the company is interesting. Dealer support is crucial. In the past 5 years I have not needed them for anything except filters. I probably know more about my engines than my dealer.....they have never sold or worked on any. This is partly due to the introduction during a time when the economy was really starting to tank. People in general not doing gas to diesel repower and that was the target market.

I think if you do a search on this site there have been a few pros and cons discussions with Steyrs Vs_______.

If I ever had to repower again in the 200 to 300 HP range the choice would be very easy for me. Steyr without question.

I would like to stick a Steyr in a hotrod but just not enough coin floating around!

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 9th, '11, 18:56

Kevin-my apologies for not recommending him calling you.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 9th, '11, 19:15

Kevin - objection duly noted.....here is the real killer on the "off brand" engines over the years - staying power. I've seen 'em come, and seen 'em go....BMW made a big splash some years ago with a marine line, a promised dealer network, and a lot of media fanfare. Talk about a "trusted" brand name, and it flopped. Several others, including your motors have tried but so far the only one I can recall that was able to break into the US market with a fair degree of success is Yanmar. Before anyone mentions Volvo, I beg to differ, they have always been a fringe brand noted for unreliablity, gimmicky stuff, and expensive parts.

I'm being brutally honest. Cummins, Cat, and GM are the only engines in the samller sizes that have ever been a success here. The big reason is a brand needs volume, big volume, in non-marine applications to justify the capital investment necessary to build and maintan a top notch, dense dealer network. Cummins, Cat, and GM engines are huge in land vehicles....how many 18 wheelers on US roads have Brand X diesels? Not many.

The sheer volume of engines in operation is the thing to look for. I think I read that there are something like 8 million Cummins B engines in operation today, the vast majority of them in land vehicles from Dodge pickups to dirt moving equipment. How many 71 & 53 series DDs are out there? Cat 3208s?

In any event, I'm not knocking your motors - you have done a great job with them, but for the average guy I'd respectfully suggest sticking with the name brands is the safe way to protect your investment.

But I forgot, you have a Hyena Boat.......

yo Fren'

UV

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Dec 9th, '11, 19:38

You got me on the Hyena for sure!

I agree with you Vic, as much as I would like to see Steyr get to that point I do not see it happening any time soon.

Now if the few that have them continue to go forever and the advertising is good they have a chance.

When I bought mine over 5 years ago I had dug up some literature about trap boats in the NE going 16000 hours before issues arose.

Steyr had the market for all the life boats because they had a inversion switch built in to the SOLAS models.

Bottom line, I did my research and took a risk. 5 years running is not a real long time, but just an indicator.

You may also run into handling issues with Steyrs. I am under the impression the 31 needs some weight in it. If that is the case the Cummins is the way to go. And no, I have never been underway in a 31. Still waiting for the opportunity.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 9th, '11, 21:21

I put Cummins 210's in back in 90 when my Chrysler 440's had to be replaced. Strangely, back then Chrysler would not honor it's warranty on the new engines unless I enlarged my exhaust/muffler system. It had also changed it's exhaust manifolds which would necessitate changes in my engine boxes. When we calculated these additional costs, my mechanic said "I could put in a pair of diesels for less". To be very honest, I didn't know the difference as I was very happy with my Chryslers. There IS a big difference. The boat handled a LOT better, docked like a dream, consumed the same amount of fuel with me and my son or 6 gorillas with coolers of ice and beer. It has to be the weight and the difference of prop size and pitch the diesel can handle. Can't say enough except to say you don't miss them until you have them. They're too damned expensive now.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 9th, '11, 22:26

Kevin

I have to agree with UV and Walter. No offense, I know Steyr is a great engine, so is Iveco, but with few dealers around be carefull. As great as any engine is, stuff happens. Just once and you may wish you had the Cummins or Yanmars.

I have to say, Walter is right, once you get used to the Diesels, you will never go back to gas. The only issue I have with the Cummins, if I put both engines in gear at the same time, the damn boat jumps up and if the guests are not prepared they get jolted around.

Gotta love these engines.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 9th, '11, 23:30

Tony-are they idled low enough? I know they recommend 800, but I've bought mine down to 650 (warm). You can also lower pitch and add cup to slow you on the low end but get it back at cruise. Walter

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 10th, '11, 09:58

Kevin - the Cummins is really a little big for the Hyena Boat, too tall, even the 4Bs from what I hear. Weight is real important in a 31....the 6BTAs with the ZF 220A gears weighs in at about 1,350# dry....the Cat 3208 N at 210 hp weighs in at a staggering 2,300....a pair weighs a TON more than the Cummins....the best riding B31 I've ever spent time on was the boat now owned by Dr. Brian Jordan here in Louisiana (the Centurion now with 300 hp Cat 3116s) when it belogned to the guy I got my boat from. It had 3208 Ns when my buddy had it and it could cruise 22 kts right into the teeth of a nasty 4 foot white capping short sea with not a shudder...like a battering ram. I can't do that with my Cummins powered boat. Several of the Faithful have added weight to the bow spaces and if I go back to fishing mine hard (hope, hope) I will add some, probably lead shot in bags. Huge difference in ride, and with the Cummins, weight seems to make no difference in speed or fuel consumption. Mine are the 250 hp and I've had 13 Faithful and all their gear + a zillion cases of beer, etc. aboard and she performed just like she does light boat.

I have 21x22 three blades, no cup, 1.53 gears, and have the motors idled back to about 650 and that cuts a lot of the "jump" out, but she still idles along at 5.3 kts on both engines, about 3 on one....one is a viable deal with Capt. Patrick's huge oversize rudders. 650 is about the lower limit for mine, any lower and they "lope" pretty bad and rattle everything.

UV

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 10th, '11, 11:21

Dad has a pair of Steyrs in his 28 Hatteras.

Loves the motors, quiet, powerful, efficient, smoke less then most and smooth as hell.

He has had them quite a few years with limited problems, mostly due to water in his tank...that killing the fuel pump more then once.

Down side is lack of support.

To get filters, belts and basic maintenance items, not a problem...its a day by UPS. There is no going to store or local supplier...cause they are all a good distance away. So have a spare on hand, cause you'll always need on Sat/Sun and UPS is not gonna get you running.

To get more then basic parts...its Red Label from Austria. Items like Fuel Pump, Water Pump needed to be replaced as his seal let loose (1500.00) Those delivers still took a few days to a week...so how important is it to have parts immediately on hand at local Dealer.

Service, Dad was here in NYC and now in Florida. Neither area has good service. Had local people with dealerships to service, but they needed to bring in a guy from Steyr to train them...on Dads motors as they never worked on one before. Coordinating that took a couple weeks...it was maintenance...so no urgency, but if is was something that had him out of commission...how long do you want to lay up a boat waiting for service.

That said, I'd buy a pair at the right price. Motors are that good. They would not be my first or second choice because of Service and Support. Steyr is not just getting into the marine business...just trying to get into it here in the States...they are well known overseas...or so I am told and seem to have the proof to back that up.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Dec 10th, '11, 11:37

I pretty much thought that would be the responses
Service is the main issue when problems arise
The steyers look good with savings but getting them worked on If there was a problem all the savings could fade away.

Thanks for all the responses

Spencer

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 10th, '11, 20:27

Walter K wrote:Tony-are they idled low enough? I know they recommend 800, but I've bought mine down to 650 (warm). You can also lower pitch and add cup to slow you on the low end but get it back at cruise. Walter

Walter

Idle at 650. Using 4 blade 20x23. I hit all the RPM #'s right on the money. I could take some cup out of them, but not a problem putting them in gear one at a time. It's when one of the nephews or the wife helps out I need to remember to tell them one engine first. I don't noitce it but i have to make sure the crew is ready before I take off.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 11th, '11, 00:12

a 31 bertram fbc needs at least 2800 lbs aft of the main bulkhead in order to put the reverse chine in the water (rocker stopper) at the stern.think about it as you stand back and look at the stern while the boat is on the hard. if you combine this weight along with engine down as far as you can make them,batteries dead center between engines, generator port next to engine and holding tank on outside of starboard engine .you can eliminate 50% of the roll while not under power. like vic said cats would be the ideal ride however that is more weight then needed. the cummins are 1320lbs a piece and i have to keep a minimum of 1/4 tank of fuel to get reverse chine 1" under water . if you don`t want the weight then don`t BITCH .

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Dec 14th, '11, 15:55

UV:

To really complicate matters --- if my scrambled egg brain remembers correctly -- I saw someting on tv within the past year and I believe the BMW diesel sedans, are powered by Steyr.

Did they make the old diesel BMWs as well? Or, does BMW make their own diesel engines in a town with the same name as the marine Steyr's?

Tom

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 14th, '11, 22:13

Bob

I need a half tank to get the chines under water. Full I am down about 11/2. I don't have the generator or a hard top/tower. That is probably the difference.

The weight makes a huge difference in the ride.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 15th, '11, 09:55

tony i feel it is the weight as well as those reverse chines. if you could imagine that vee sitting on a flat surface the boat would flop to one side and if you put a support under each side at the extreme aft of the outside part of the chine that in essence what you have accomplish with that weight.slightly bow proud with chines in the water needless to say trim tabs would be detrimental to this idea even in the up position hurts the ride. this chine in the water is how i take on 6' plus waves on a every week basics going in and out fire island inlet . water breaks under pillars and ends up two feet in back of stern dry boat all the time. if you live on a lake none of this applies but if you go offshore and get your ass kick then you are doing something wrong.easy to troubleshoot by putting boat in slings over water and play with balance on travel lift . my balance point is two feet further to the stern from original "sling" identification tags place on boat at factory.

bertram31.com

Steyr250 or cummins reman270

Steyr250 or cummins reman270

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