Bilge pumps

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Oct 2nd, '11, 21:54

Our 31, hull #314-959, has a Jabsco bilge pump Model 36600-0000 belt-driven 8 gpm located in the forward bilge. The aft pump is a Lovett 900. Neither has an accessible float switch, which I always like to lift to activate as part of my "pre-flight" checklist. You guys have any experience with these pumps? Any way to activate the float mechanism short of flooding the bilge? Thanks.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Oct 2nd, '11, 23:40

Tommy,
The Lovett 900 should have a little float built-in to the pump, If I remember correctly you have to take the outer plastic cover off to access the float switch. Jabsco I have no clue.
I would get rid of the Lovett, the one that came with my boat in 1962 almost burnt up the wiring in the bilge, they had it wired direct to the positive battery terminal without any fuses or breakers in the line, also wired a white light into the transom panel. I have been putting Johnson Pumps in my boat when the old Rule pumps wear out. Good luck.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 3rd, '11, 06:59

I would think two new pumps with new floatswitches are in order. I also like a counter so I can see how many times it cycles.

RAWicklund · Post by **RAWicklund** » Oct 3rd, '11, 07:09

Bilge pump counter????? Never heard of it.... so I googled it.... 70 bucks at West.

Great idea.... I'm putting one in.

Thanks
Ray

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Oct 3rd, '11, 08:36

Never heard of it either. Great idea though, will do same.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Oct 3rd, '11, 08:44

Get your counter at WW Grainger for 20 bucks vs. 70 at Worst Marine. I've got two Rule 2000s with external floats and had lot of trouble with the pumps just burning up for no reason in a few months - I'd send them back to the factory and they would send me a new one, it would burn up, etc....then they came out with a "Gold" series that seems better. The Gold must be made by Chinese 5th graders vs. the standard one made by 2d graders?

I had a belt driven 32 volt Groco on my old 45 foot Hickcock that would put a fire pump to shame, and being a wood hull with a llittle rot, I needed it.

UV

RAWicklund · Post by **RAWicklund** » Oct 3rd, '11, 09:09

I'm the king of cheap and $70 was just my starting point.

I have a Donavan account, but the 2006 catalog I have at home doesn't have them.

20 bucks @ grainger for a counter is hard to beat.

Ray

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 3rd, '11, 09:30

Any part # or key word search for the one at Graingers?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Oct 3rd, '11, 09:55

Naw, don't have it but they sell all kinds of industrial counters that are activated by a variety of means, electrical pulse, mechanical movement, etc....start here and find what you need:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/counte ... alog/N-cr2

UV

RAWicklund · Post by **RAWicklund** » Oct 3rd, '11, 16:18

I ordered one this morning from grainger # 2PAT7 for $23 plus tax. They had some non resettable ones on clearance for twenty bucks.

Ray

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 3rd, '11, 17:22

Ray you will love it. One time I was sleeping in the canyon andthe crew had caught some fish and cleaned them. I woke up and as I came on deck I saw the counter for the bildge pump was way high. The washdown pumps hose had cut loose under the deck. I would have never known.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Oct 3rd, '11, 18:16

How do you rset them back to zero?

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Oct 3rd, '11, 18:55

there is a reset button on mine.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 3rd, '11, 21:09

The Grainger up here will not sell to you unless you have a commercial account. How do you guys purchase from them? I can understand that guys like Brew might have an account with them, but a Retired Attorney. Ok What is the secret?

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Oct 3rd, '11, 21:17

Down here they have plenty of commerical cash acounts and they sell it to me under one of them. I also have access to order with a couple of other acounts but both add 10-20%.

RAWicklund · Post by **RAWicklund** » Oct 4th, '11, 06:54

I guess different areas... different rules. I have an account, but I can also register online and have them drop ship without an account.

For the most part Graingers prices are high... Catalog price is actual price... volume discounts are listed. Same deal for all buyers I think.

But they got a great catalog and great selection. Anything not in stock is available in a couple days... no shipping charge to store.

Ray

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Oct 4th, '11, 08:54

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Pete and Brewster, we will look into implementing your suggestions. Like the others, I appreciate the idea of a cycle counter. You commercial fishermen really know your stuff. Of course, when you make your living on the water, you have to know your stuff or you go out of business.....or worse.

Tommy

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Oct 4th, '11, 08:59

All you have to do is make up a business name and open a cash account - no credit checks needed so they don't care. I opened one for our law firm 40 years ago and can still use it.

Just think up a glitzy name like "Bertram Enterprises" and call them up, tell them you want to open a cash only account and they will be happy to accomidate you. Ray's observation is also my experience - no real price advantagee for most stuff, but they have everything and its way cheaper than Worst Marine and the catalog gives accurateee, no BS descriptions of the stuff.

UV

Ric · Post by **Ric** » Oct 4th, '11, 09:10

I have 2 rule 2000 series pumps, I put in 2 industrial indicator lights on the dash of the flybridge so i would be aware whenever the pumps cycle on. the lights also have a push to test to make sure power is getting to them (the bilge pumps),,They allow me to know when they go on ,,and more importantly ,"when they stay on " like when something gets under the float switch and keeps running,,,,knowing how often they cycle while away from the boat would be nice,,but the only water i take on is from the shaft logs,and rain.,.,.been 10 years and they need to be repacked....I will be at the liqourdale show ,,,my number is 978-397-6140.,.,.,in case anyone wants to join me for the swim suit models.,., 8) .,

randall · Post by **randall** » Oct 4th, '11, 09:51

my boat had 4 pumps and no external float switches but they all had a manual position and you could test em anytime. i also noticed they would suck water in at much lower shallower height in manual than auto.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Oct 4th, '11, 20:11

Funny, my brother, uncle and I were on Decoy yesterday for nearly 8 hours working mainly on bilge pumps. My brother was surprised that the boat was still floating, as the forward float switch had malfunctioned and the aft bilge pump had burned out. We found out that the aft bilge pump hose had a hole in it, so it was pumping water up the hose and back into the bilge, thus it burned up due to constantly running for who knows how long. We replaced the float switch on the forward bilge pump, changed the aft bilge pump and hose and added an automatic bilge pump and hose to the lowest point in the bilge. This is one of those bilge pumps that comes on automatically every couple of minutes. It only runs for about a second, unless it detects water, then it pumps until there is no water sensed. This automatic pump should keep the bilge nearly dry, and the other 2 pumps should only come on if it is raining or we are taking on water from waves or some other source. I took Uncle Vic's advice and polished up the outriggers and very dull half tower with CX, and it looks a million times better. Thanks UV

JR

cmccool · Post by **cmccool** » Oct 4th, '11, 21:34

My bilge pump story:

When I redid by B28 a couple of years ago I replaced the two existing bilge pumps with new 2000 gph units and added 2 more so I have 4 pumps.

A couple of weeks ago I returned from a fishing trip, stopped at the fuel dock to refuel (no problem), then continued a 2 mile run at 7 knots down our inlet to my docking spot.

Tie off and jump back in the boat to organize stuff and notice a bilge pump working - actually 4 bilge pumps working. Pull a hatch and have a foot of water in the bilge. Try not to panic. Have a quick look and can see water coming in like a fire hose but can't tell where. Check the water level and realize that I am holding my own so not in immediate danger of sinking. Weird how the mind works - I plugged the boat in so my batteries wouldn't get drained.

Spent a bunch of time trying to find the leak and finally pulled a different hatch and found my problem. Had an old transducer in the bottom which I hadn't removed when I redid stuff (dumb move). The retainer for the guts of the transducer had disappeared and the guts had popped out - 2" hole in the bottom of the boat. Fortunately the transducer guts were lying beside the hole so I could just pop them back in and the leak stopped. Lots of cheering. Then I just had to jerry rig something so the guts would not pop out again.

Should have gone out and bought a lottery ticket - would have been a different outcome if it had happened out in the rough stuff or worse, when nobody was around.

I have to say - those 4 pumps move a lot of water.

Cliff

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Oct 5th, '11, 08:32

The same thing happened to Bob Fiorese and his Frayed Knot while fishing off Montauk the weekend after our NE Rendezvous. Between his pumps and his son bailing with a bucket he ran into the harbor bow proud and into the lift. Had that happened on the run to or from Greenport with his wife as crew, he would have lost the boat.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Oct 5th, '11, 09:02

Walter:

When I restored Tailhook, I knew a lot of times I would have my non-mechanically inclined "I'm not ruining my french manicure" significant other aboard as the only crew.

Therefore, when replumbing the engines with new through hulls and seacocks, I added crash valves on both engines. I had some confidence that if my 4 bilge pumps failed, I could jump between the engine boxes and open the ball valves to the crash pumps and use my diesels to pump water out -- lot of water could be moved via those 1 1/4" hoses. I tried it out at the dock and once I put the engines over 1,000 rpm, massive amounts of water were flying out the exhaust.

On a side note, I also had a collection of bungs from 1" up to 6" as well as a decent sized deadblow to "install" them in an emergency.

Thank God in the 9 years I owned Tailhook, I never once had to use any of the above.

Tom

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Oct 5th, '11, 10:51

I use my crash valves to winterize my engines every year. It's pretty impressive how fast that 5 gallon bucket empties, even at idle.

For $200 and a few feet of hose, it's foolish to be without them.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... ,2838.html

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Oct 5th, '11, 11:11

Absolutely. I have them too, and they are incredible at enabling water movement, as well as for winterization!!! Especially since I have external strainers and no internal baskets any more.

randall · Post by **randall** » Oct 5th, '11, 11:55

i used my crash valves to run fresh water through the system about once a week. they were extremely easy to use cause i threaded the intake and could just plug in the pipe from the bucket. anything in the bucket went into the system.....a running hose would just keep up.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Oct 7th, '11, 09:34

Does anyone have a picture of their crash valves in their boat?

JR

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 7th, '11, 09:55

Jack,

Here's the ones I did on Hancock;s B31...

Crash Valves

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Oct 7th, '11, 13:29

Capt. Patrick, Did you use a three way valve along with the seacock or did you just put a tee in the line with the seacock?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Oct 7th, '11, 14:06

Call me dumb but I need a diagramatical explanation. What goes to where?

Russ Pagels · Post by **Russ Pagels** » Oct 7th, '11, 14:22

walter click on

Crash Valves

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Oct 7th, '11, 14:56

Russ, thanks I get it now.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 7th, '11, 15:02

If walter is dumb then I'm dumber.

After looking at the pics in the link I see the SW intakes and shut off valve. I also see the T fitting on the side of the motor but I don't see where you switch from the thru hull to the pipe in the bildge.

Not the first time I've been called dumber.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Oct 7th, '11, 15:14

Peter:

You change the water flow by closing the tru hull and open the crash valve, they both feed into the tee. If the leak isn't too big, you might need to keep the tru hull open too.

Tom

Whaler1777 · Post by **Whaler1777** » Oct 7th, '11, 15:15

Capt, what kind of material did you use to make the floor supports for the deck between the engine boxes?

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Oct 7th, '11, 15:15

I'm the same way. This is an amaizing installation and I guess because we can't see the whole picture, it just isn't clear. It makes me want to rip everything out of my bilge and start over.

Dick

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 7th, '11, 15:28

TailhookTom wrote:Peter:

You change the water flow by closing the tru hull and open the crash valve, they both feed into the tee. If the leak isn't too big, you might need to keep the tru hull open too.

Tom

Understood I just don't see the crash valve. Is it at the end of the hose, inline?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 7th, '11, 16:08

In the image above, those are the crash valves. The normal raw water is drawn from a thru hull and ball valve aft of the engines.

Capt, what kind of material did you use to make the floor supports for the deck between the engine boxes?

John,

Structural square fiberglass tubing from McMaster & Coosa Board for the vertical elements...

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Oct 7th, '11, 19:10

So, Patrick, per Tom's comment, a two-step process is needed to de-water: 1) open crash valve; 2) partially or completely close raw-water intake valve, depending on rate of flooding. I assume the drill requires a close eye on the temp gauge in the event the crash valve starts sucking air? Thanks for the great photos and description; I love learning from you guys on this Board.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Oct 7th, '11, 19:58

great and important post, in addition to the crash valves I installed per the Capt,s advise, I added indicator lites and audibles on the bridge in addition to the manual switched up there, this is standard stuff on the custom boats, but Brewsters counter is the bestest idea yet,

Bruce Sweet · Post by **Bruce Sweet** » Oct 8th, '11, 06:40

I have a Rule 2700 in the aft with a red LED on the dash that will let me know if i have a problem when underway. i don't need the LED when i am on the deck fishing or having fun as the 2700 gushes like a racehorse thru the 3/4" transom thru-hull.Now comes the fun part: when i have the in-laws or friends out swimming and they are resting on the swim platform i open the coolers to drain the 32.5 degree water into the bilge and hit the manual switch on the 2700. the reaction ,as they say, is priceless.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 8th, '11, 16:40

So what's the details about the crash valve Plates with the holes in them. Are those stock items or custom?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 8th, '11, 17:50

Peter,

There are several models and manufacturers of bilge strainers.

Groco Bronze bilge strainer: http://www.yachtsupplydepot.com/hardwar ... 16616.html

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 10th, '11, 09:45

These are what I use:

http://www.groco.net/SVC-MAN-07/Sec4/PDF/SBV.pdf

They are the nicest seacocks I have found.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Oct 10th, '11, 19:40

Wow,

As usual, I am extremely impressed with the quality and quantity of information available here. Capt. Patrick, very impressive work. Thanks, I now have another project for my next haul out.

JR

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Oct 10th, '11, 22:16

Rawleigh..I have the same ball valve combo.. real neat.. the only thing .. dont forget to "exercize "it every 6mos or so.. I loaded mine up with tefgel ..It gets sticky..
Wayne

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Oct 10th, '11, 23:26

Rawleigh,
You gave me that link 3 or 4 years ago or so, and that's what we went with. The setup is great for running the engines while on a lift or trailer.
Thanks.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Oct 11th, '11, 08:28

Thank you very much Capt Patrick and Rawleigh.

My thru hulls with inboard strainers are located just inside the shaft logs. Crash valves should be center line of the boat, I'd assume the current location is not optimal.

Pairing the bilge strainer with the service adapter on the sea cock would seem to be a great option, same location as Capt pat or aft of the v berth. The service adapter can be used to winterized the boat.

Thanks again.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 11th, '11, 08:53

Wayne: I close mine in the fall and open it in the spring. I may add a couple of other "exercisings" in between. One neat thing about the Grocos is that you can snap a 3/8" ratchet into the handle to get more leverage if needed. Better to keep them exercised though!

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