Block Heater

richcatch22 · Post by **richcatch22** » Jan 4th, '07, 22:22

Last year I purchased Zero Start immersion type block heaters, still have not installed them. These require removal of a freeze plug to install. I have been a little concerned about removal of the freeze plugs in spite of the local Cat mech input that it is a very easy procedure (although he has not had the time to install for me). I would like to install as a winter project and would appreciate any input.
Should I scrap the idea of the immersion heaters and go with the glue on oil pan Wolverine heaters? Look forward to you input. Thanks.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jan 5th, '07, 01:16

I think that the Wolverine heaters are great, but you'll probably need to lift the engines in order to remove the oil pans so that you can remove the paint from the spots where the heaters are going.

Heating the oil is a better way of pre-heating the engine than a non-circulating coolant heater, so if you can get 'er done, get 'er did.

Of course if you really want a slick set-up, go with an Espar furnace. It will circulate heated coolant through the block, and double as a cabin heater. It will run off your diesel tank and battery.

http://www.espar.com/htm/Specs/water/hydro5.htm

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Jan 5th, '07, 12:15

Heating the bottom of the engine; by either a heat pan or block heater will set up a thermo siphon. I don't like idea of knocking out a freeze plug. I have seem Cat immersion heater that bolt into the front of the engine block; but it is high on the motor. Therefore the thermo siphon does not get working very well.
If you have Cats what do you need a block heater for? Mine start when the first piston hit TDC even if it is ten degrees. Over the winter I put a "BoatSafe" in the bilge to keep any condensation off the blocks.
Cats and block heaters???

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 5th, '07, 13:48

Charlie,
Boat Safe? Que pasa, Dude. Haven't heard but sounds interesting.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Jan 5th, '07, 15:23

Mikey, it's a heater that comes on around 35 degrees and shuts off around 45 degrees. They come in two sizes. I have the larger size; I think around 800 watts. It does not use a normal heating element; but probably a heating cartridge and a thermocouple pluged into a block of aluminum. This way no element no explosion around gassers. They also have a housing that fits around the whole thing so the outside temps are not very hot to the touch. Again no way to start a fire. They are not cheap. I got it when I had my gasser 28B. They are grey and say BoatSafe in big letters on the top. It does keep the engine room on the 35B nice and warn. It also did a great job in the 28B. Not sure if you would need two of the smaller size on a 31B?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 5th, '07, 17:23

Cahrlie,
Thanks. Checked their website. Probably cheaper than replacing the defunct block heaters, huh?

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 5th, '07, 18:06

Mikey: I use two brooder house heater bulbs in clamp on reflecter fixtures with a thermostat going to a plug on the boathouse wall. Drop the electric cord down the rodholder and plug them in. Clamp them to one of the hoses and aim them at the side of the block. KISS and cheap! Has worked well for 40 years now!!

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 6th, '07, 09:41

Rawleigh,
As UV is fond of saying, "the enemy of good is better."
I'll look at yours when the urge strikes me. If you get this today (Saturday, a.m.) I will be under Dreamsicle glassing some unneeded holes.Come on down.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 7th, '07, 20:54

Mikey: Sorry I didn't get your post. You must be feeling better, or did they just slide the hospital bed under Dreamsickle??

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 7th, '07, 22:08

I bought a couple of the 250w Wolverine pad heaters from Tony Athens a few years ago and they still sit in the box...... A month or 2 ago when I was struggling with the port Racor bowl and finally removed the inside companionway panel to get it out, VOLA!, I could get my hand on the bottom of the Cummins 6B oil pan. Pulled my hand out and it was covered with oily crud.......Hmmmmm, clean it up, sand the paint off a big section of the oil pan just to get a 4x6" pad glued on? At 30 degrees North Latitude in Coonassland? Trade easy starts when its cold, which it ain't often (78 yesterday) for a rusted oil pan? Don't think so.

So I started thinking about how to get the "heat siphon" going with my Wolverines without screwing with trying to glue them to the oil pans. I have 120 VAC in the stb. engine box in anticipation of the block heaters when I did some wiring a few years ago. The few times I've been so unlucky to get a rent car up north in the winter they use a big magnet to hold an oil pan heater on. Sooooooooo, I'm thinking about gluing the Wolverines to a thin metal plate just bigger than them, then attaching a magnet on each corner and just pop the sucker on the oil pan, plug both of them into a line voltage therostat and take them off in the spring.

The Bride suggested I just not start the engines unless the ambient temp is over about 50 since we don't go boating when it's cold anyway. Women, you know how they are........

What ya'll think?

UV

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Jan 8th, '07, 06:42

I have Cats and use block heaters that screw in to the font end of the block. They have been in for 10 yrs. They work great, keep the motors so warm that my cabin heater warms the cabin in 5 min before I even leave the dock. They keep the motors so warm I believe it cuts down on rusting which is a problem w/20+ yr old engines. I have put them on timers to keep the electric bill down.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 8th, '07, 07:28

What ya'll think?

UV,

If you used rare earth mags, you probably wouldn'd need to add any plate. Just let the mags pull through the pad...

You could get 10 of these, (2 packs of 5), for around $20 shipped.

http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/detail.aspx?ID=92

Br,

Patrick

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 8th, '07, 09:15

Capt. Frank...

I had block heaters installed in my Cummins 6Bs this past summer when the engines were being worked on.. I live in Wilmington, SC, just down the road a piece from you, so I see pretty much the same weather. My reason for spending the $$$ to have these installed is my slip is in our subdivision's private basin, near several houses. My transom is about 35' from my neighbor's pool and screened in porch.. adjacent neighbors are about 60' away, on either side. If I make smoke on startup I can blast the neighbors into their house in a heartbeat.

I asked the question on the Boatdiesel forum, but am still not sure how to wire the heaters.. each is 1,000 watts. What size are yours? Do you run yours in series or parallel? What cycle times do you set for your timer? Do you run both heaters at the same time, or do you alternate one on and one off so as to keep the electric load from blowing the 120 volt breaker? And.. do you have any idea how much using these heaters costs you? At this time I pay a flat fee for all my electric usage on my float, but if I start to use a lot of power I want to be able to pay my fair share, and am considering the use of a small meter.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 8th, '07, 09:25

Rawleigh,
Walking with one crutch, so climbing a ladder is no prob. Don't tell Dr. Cardea. See him tomorrow, so maybe . . . Glassed up the excess holes in the hull this weekend (Weather in the seventies) so we should be floatable. Now, if Cabrera will return my fuel-tank top, it has only been four months, I,ll be nearly ready for the first launch for the waterline scum. We're getting there, it just takes longer and longer.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 8th, '07, 11:15

Mikey I don't suppose any of the plates off of your old tank will fit it will they? I can drill and tap any holes necessary for the diesels.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 8th, '07, 12:01

Rawleigh,
Might could. Still trying to get Cabrera to do what they said they would, four months ago. May have to get a Southern Florida connection to go over there, where ever "there" is. Keep you posted.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 8th, '07, 12:36

Make them have to get a knee replacement too, huh!! For a small stipend I can keep that info about your illicit activities from your Doctor!! My account number is . . .!!

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 8th, '07, 12:38

If need be we can drop your old one in acid to clean it up and drill and tap it as necessary. No problem!! Did I mention that I got digital readouts for my mill for Xmas?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 8th, '07, 18:04

Patrick - the magnets are a great idea.....I'm gonna order some. Probably glue some fishing line on the outside butt ends to fish them out of the bilge if they fall off.....

UV

34Hatt · Post by **34Hatt** » Jan 8th, '07, 18:20

I have them on my 330b's because I had them on the older motors and they do work great!!!
I would be afraid of the magnets because if those heaters come loose and land in the bildge they could start a fire. They do get really hot, when applying them they say plug them in for 5 sec and wow their HOT. They need the mass of the pan to pull the heat out other wise they will burn up. Are you sure you cant get the pan clean and glue them.

scot · Post by **scot** » Jan 8th, '07, 18:29

IRGuy,

I fail to see your problem, blasting the neighbors at their pool side with smoke could be fun. It would fall under "Self Entertainment".

If you live in the South you are required to do stuff like that. I think my neighbors think it's fun to irritating the crap out of me....but then again, I live next to Larry the Cable guy.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 8th, '07, 19:38

Dan - guess you are right. I dug out the instructions and they say DO NOT run them without full contact with a hunk of big iron or they will burn up. Oh well, anyone wanna buy a pair of new in the box Wolverines cheap? Think I'll get a couple of cheap drop lights and be done with it, if it ever gets cold.

UV

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 8th, '07, 19:44

Block heater to start a CAT? I always thought you just turned them on, not start them.(3208,3126,3406,3196, C20, C30, C32, C32A)
Block heater to start a Cummins? Cummins 6B has a heating filament already installed on the air intake (B and C for sure), and ours always start. Just wait for the voltage to come up after ignition on and boom. Chugs for a little while but always starts.

There are other reasons to have a block heater, It makes alot of sense for keeping the engine compartments condensation free and reducing blue smoke at start up. Both are reasons alone to have one, but hard starting....... not our little blue boat.

richcatch22 · Post by **richcatch22** » Jan 8th, '07, 20:47

Great Input. My motivation for the block heaters is solely to keep the engine and engine room warm to eliminate condensation, thus reducing rust and maintenance to keep them looking good.
They fire right up with no smoke even when the temp is in the 30's.

richcatch22 · Post by **richcatch22** » Jan 8th, '07, 20:58

BTW. Be careful if you consider magnets to hold the pad heater in place, magnets can become demagnetized with heat. The may not lose all there strength when subjected to heat, but each cycle they will lose a little.
I like the fish wire to retrieve them, you could always replace them after they lose their holding strength.
I know there are commercial products that are held magnetically, these are usually low wattage less than 250 W and insulate the magnets from the heat.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 8th, '07, 21:12

The older 6BTAs like mine don't have the air inlet heaters that are really just to cut down the smoking at startup. My camp neighbors call AJ "the mosquito killer".

Anyway, I've done the usual, the enemy of good is better, screw it, I'll do nothing.

Hey guys, I like the way the FL Gators are whupping up on the Buckeyes....

UV

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Jan 8th, '07, 22:33

IR,
I have outlets for port and starboard sides of the boat each has a 15 amp breaker. I beleve the block heater are 1000 watt. Mine are plugged in to outdoor timmers. On for a couple of hours and off for 6 I think and so on. I have been told to just get a small thermostat and wire it in line lay the thermostat on the motors and when it gets 40' or colder they come on. Mine were just plugged in to there outlet and left on 24/7 when it was cold 40' or below. My dad complained about his electric bill when I left them on for weeks on weeks. So when it gets cold I turn them on.
They were pretty cheep about $40 I think(NAPA). My port burned out last year and I have new one on the boat ready to install but it has not gotten cold yet. So I have not gotten around to it.
Frank

34Hatt · Post by **34Hatt** » Jan 9th, '07, 08:46

There are other reasons to have a block heater, It makes alot of sense for keeping the engine compartments condensation free and reducing blue smoke at start up. Both are reasons alone to have one, but hard starting....... not our little blue boat.

I have the air heaters but as mention many other good reason such as in the Fall its easy to do oil change go down to the Boat and oil is already HOT.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Jan 9th, '07, 08:55

I have seen boats down here with explosion proof fixtures in the engine room wired to a switch and holding a 100 watt light bulb. Works real well for both light and warmth - but a cheap plastic drop light does the same thing for less trouble and cost. Doesn't get that cold down here since Al Gore discovered Global Warming, but I like to keep the cabin dry and fairly warm, so I use a small electric space heater, the kind with a thermostat and that shuts off if it falls over. I set it pretty low, does a good job. Might be a "Holmes" brand. When my engines evolved from the original truck application to 31 Bertram service, the air intake heater was not retained. I do have heaters on the fuel filters on the engines, but never hooked them up.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 9th, '07, 09:28

Scot...

Gee.. thanks! I never realized the opportunity I was letting slip through my fingers! As a transplanted Yankee I never thought about how much fun it would be to surround a whole family with rich blue gray smoke for a minute or so.. in fact, I my slip is so close to their yard I could probably silence their yappy dog as well!

I think I can make it a surprise for them! I will sneak down onto the boat while it is still dark in the AM, and wait all day hidden until they are lounging around the pool in the afternoon.. then Whammo.. I will run up to the flybridge, quickly turn on both engines and push the throttles to halfway! Wow! The thought of watching them as they disappear in a diesel smelling cloud just gets my juices flowing!

I never realized what fun one could have living in the south! Where I lived before, in MA, our boats were out of the water half the time, and we were more concerned about where to put the damned snow!

JGomber · Post by **JGomber** » Jan 9th, '07, 16:39

For what it is worth...
I added what are called Tank Heaters from my local Detroit Diesel parts department to the FW closed cooling loop on my V504s. These are used on over the road rigs to keep the engine temp up during cold weather shut downs. They're 110v heaters in FRP "bubbles" that are spliced into the coolant lines and the truckers plug 'em in overnight. Siphon heating causes circulation of the heated coolant to reach all parts of the loop. Next morning they are ready for a quick start to get on the road.
Mine are wired in through a 110v programable 24hr timer (under the dinette) so I can set them for warmup every morning. This is so that if I'm fishing on any given morning, the engines are warm and ready to go with minimal cranking and clouds. Of course you have to have electrical service available...which I don't over winter on the hard but do have 24/7 when in my slip.
The internal heater elements are replaceable in their bubbles and the complete units are available in various wattages.
Hope this helps...

bertram31.com

Block Heater

Block Heater

Wolverine heater

Heaters

Block heaters

Who is online