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Tommy-Bailey Tank
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CaptPatrick
- Founder/Admin
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- Joined: Jun 7th, '06, 14:25
- Location: 834 Scott Dr., LLANO, TX 78643 - 325.248.0809 bertram31@bertram31.com
Tommy-Bailey Tank
Here's 4 photos of the fuel tank in the B31 that Tommy and Jim are looking at. Tommy requested that I post them for all to see and comment on...
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Disclaimer--I know nothing about Bertram f'glass tanks. I can tell you that the interior of that tank looks alot different than the tank I took out of my '69 FBC that to my knowledge had never seen E-10. Its so different that I'm assuming the difference is in what materials (resin?) was used, not because of E10--but again, I don't know and am guessing.
All in all, I didn't find that putting a tank in was a big deal.
Good luck fellas
All in all, I didn't find that putting a tank in was a big deal.
Good luck fellas
1968 B20 Moppie - Hull # 201-937
1969 B31 FBC - Hull # 315-881 (sold)
1977 B31 FBC - Hull # BERG1652M77J
1969 B31 FBC - Hull # 315-881 (sold)
1977 B31 FBC - Hull # BERG1652M77J
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TailhookTom
- Senior Member
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Whaler1777
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Sep 10th, '06, 19:43
- Location: NY
Is it evaporating? I see no gelcoat... Im having n issue with mine... boat has never seen ethanol but the gas thats in there is about 5 years old... theres about 3/4" of a grease like substance on the bottom of the tank in addition to the approx 110 gallons of gasoline in the tank... It doesnt seem likethe gelcoat is breaking down in mine just that nasty lighter brown almost varnishy greasy crap has me wondering if i am going to need to bite the bullet and drop in a tank...
'79 Bertram 31' Sedan
Patrick, thanks for posting.
John and Tom, according to Patrick some of the Bertram tanks were gelcoated on the inside, and some were not; obviously, this one was not. Jim and I inspected the boat and sea-trialed it this past Monday. We met with the marina owner who has maintained the boat for 30 years, and also the marina manager where the boat has always fueled up. Both say that ethanol has never been introduced into the boat, in fact, the marina says they have always carried non-ethanol fuel. As a side note, the marina owns and charters three 31's (and has for a long time), so they are no strangers to our favorite vessel. The photos were merely to take advantage of the collective wisdom offered on this board. Thanks for chipping in. Jim and I owe them an answer this week. Thanks,
Tommy
John and Tom, according to Patrick some of the Bertram tanks were gelcoated on the inside, and some were not; obviously, this one was not. Jim and I inspected the boat and sea-trialed it this past Monday. We met with the marina owner who has maintained the boat for 30 years, and also the marina manager where the boat has always fueled up. Both say that ethanol has never been introduced into the boat, in fact, the marina says they have always carried non-ethanol fuel. As a side note, the marina owns and charters three 31's (and has for a long time), so they are no strangers to our favorite vessel. The photos were merely to take advantage of the collective wisdom offered on this board. Thanks for chipping in. Jim and I owe them an answer this week. Thanks,
Tommy
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Pete Fallon
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 23:10
- Location: Stuart Fl. and Salem, Ma.
Tommy,
If your going to keep it a gas boat I would make sure that I was able to get either non ethenol gas or av gas in the area. What kind of power Merc or Chrysler, some of the older engines are getting harder and harder to get parts for, that's another thing to think about. Is there any brown crud in the very bottom of the tank?, mine is a 1961 tank that had some residue in the very bottom, used some Acetone to clean it out, no signs of delamination or blisters in mine. It's never had ethenol in it and I've had it before ethenol was even introduced. If your going to repower to diesels I'd leave the tank alone, looks like it's in good shape.
Is it a 222 gallon or 172 gallon tank (pre 1972 -172 after 1972-222).
Pete
If your going to keep it a gas boat I would make sure that I was able to get either non ethenol gas or av gas in the area. What kind of power Merc or Chrysler, some of the older engines are getting harder and harder to get parts for, that's another thing to think about. Is there any brown crud in the very bottom of the tank?, mine is a 1961 tank that had some residue in the very bottom, used some Acetone to clean it out, no signs of delamination or blisters in mine. It's never had ethenol in it and I've had it before ethenol was even introduced. If your going to repower to diesels I'd leave the tank alone, looks like it's in good shape.
Is it a 222 gallon or 172 gallon tank (pre 1972 -172 after 1972-222).
Pete
1961 Express Vizcaya Hull 186 12-13-61
Pete,
She is a 1970 with the 172 gal tank, and she was repowered around 8 years ago with the Marine Power "Captains Choice" 8.1 MPI, fresh-water cooled engines. She has a total of 190 hours on the engines, and has always lived on the Great Lakes. Given the way we plan to use the boat, gas engines make the most sense. She will homeport at Jim's Anchorage Marina in Atlantic Beach, NC. Jim carries only ethanol-free fuel, and he randomly tests it to keep the suppliers honest.
She is a 1970 with the 172 gal tank, and she was repowered around 8 years ago with the Marine Power "Captains Choice" 8.1 MPI, fresh-water cooled engines. She has a total of 190 hours on the engines, and has always lived on the Great Lakes. Given the way we plan to use the boat, gas engines make the most sense. She will homeport at Jim's Anchorage Marina in Atlantic Beach, NC. Jim carries only ethanol-free fuel, and he randomly tests it to keep the suppliers honest.
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Pete Fallon
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1313
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 23:10
- Location: Stuart Fl. and Salem, Ma.
Tommy,
Leave the tank alone, just keep at lot of fuel water separators onboard, you might have some of that brown crap in the bottom of the tank and when you start using the boat it's going to start loosing off the sides and bottom, replace the tank later if you have problems.
Make sure that the fuel lines are alochol resistant A1 USCG approved, if they are copper lines leave them if they don't show any signs of leaking. Mine had copper fuel lines held in place by rubber lined d style clamps, I had a problem after a couple of years of using the boat(boat was 18 years old when it happened in 1979) the rubber inserts had dried out, fell out and outer part of the support chafed through the copper causing a leaky line.
I would change all the lines if they are over 10 years old, just for safety factor. Congradulations on the new boat, what hull # is she (either under the port V berth or on the transom centerline under the teak cockpit sole ledger board up high.
Pete
Leave the tank alone, just keep at lot of fuel water separators onboard, you might have some of that brown crap in the bottom of the tank and when you start using the boat it's going to start loosing off the sides and bottom, replace the tank later if you have problems.
Make sure that the fuel lines are alochol resistant A1 USCG approved, if they are copper lines leave them if they don't show any signs of leaking. Mine had copper fuel lines held in place by rubber lined d style clamps, I had a problem after a couple of years of using the boat(boat was 18 years old when it happened in 1979) the rubber inserts had dried out, fell out and outer part of the support chafed through the copper causing a leaky line.
I would change all the lines if they are over 10 years old, just for safety factor. Congradulations on the new boat, what hull # is she (either under the port V berth or on the transom centerline under the teak cockpit sole ledger board up high.
Pete
1961 Express Vizcaya Hull 186 12-13-61
I had a problem with my tank.
When I opened it up as you did, I did not see 30+ years of Gunk and Varnish on the tank walls...it had more of a white chalky residue.
Just opinion here...
...but first a background I base it on.
Originally when I started to have problems I was thinking the Ethanol was cleaning the tank, dissolving 30+ years of Gasoline Tars, Varnishes and Gunk from the walls. I constantly found crap in the filters and the fuel was Brownish Orange and had a foul odor. After a season of expecting the tank now has to be clean after each fill up, I made a winter project of cleaning the tank. I opened the tank to clean I was pleasantly surprised to see it so clean. I continued the process of cleaning by pumping the fuel thru with a wand to clean wherever I could reach, pulled out every last drop of that contaminated fuel, wiped wherever I could then recapped the tank and filled with the best fuel I could get, new filters and put boat in the water expecting my problems where now over. My first run gave me bent push rods, as did the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Fuel still had a foul odor and color was off, but no debris.
Finally to my opinion....seeing brown crude on the tank walls is a good sign as it has not been cleaned by the solvent properties of Ethanol. l
Carl
When I opened it up as you did, I did not see 30+ years of Gunk and Varnish on the tank walls...it had more of a white chalky residue.
Just opinion here...
...but first a background I base it on.
Originally when I started to have problems I was thinking the Ethanol was cleaning the tank, dissolving 30+ years of Gasoline Tars, Varnishes and Gunk from the walls. I constantly found crap in the filters and the fuel was Brownish Orange and had a foul odor. After a season of expecting the tank now has to be clean after each fill up, I made a winter project of cleaning the tank. I opened the tank to clean I was pleasantly surprised to see it so clean. I continued the process of cleaning by pumping the fuel thru with a wand to clean wherever I could reach, pulled out every last drop of that contaminated fuel, wiped wherever I could then recapped the tank and filled with the best fuel I could get, new filters and put boat in the water expecting my problems where now over. My first run gave me bent push rods, as did the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Fuel still had a foul odor and color was off, but no debris.
Finally to my opinion....seeing brown crude on the tank walls is a good sign as it has not been cleaned by the solvent properties of Ethanol. l
Carl
Ethanol certainly has been shown to cause problems, but it may not be the one and only source of problems. I know a Diesel boat that had blistering problems on the inside of the tank, and that was years before the ethanol was introduced into the gasoline. My own tank never had Ethanol gasoline in it and it was beginning to blister inside when I changed it out in anticipation of the corn gas being the only avbailable fuel in my area.
Everyone thought the Bertram fiberglass tanks were "Forever." But it turns out that "forever " in boat terms is +/-40 years... even without ethanol... which is still pretty darn good.
IMHO this tank is ready to be changed out. If for no other reason than the boat will sell at a discount until the job is done. It is a well documented problem and a known solution. No buyer is going to be happy about the old fiberglass tank, so it will impede the sale of the boat until the tank is replaced.
That leaves two choices at the moment... either the current seller replaces the tank and re-markets the boat, or he accepts a discounted offer. The seller now (or any seller in the future) trying to pretend that the original glass tank isn't a problem is simply in denial. Particularly when it looks like this on the inside.
Peter
Everyone thought the Bertram fiberglass tanks were "Forever." But it turns out that "forever " in boat terms is +/-40 years... even without ethanol... which is still pretty darn good.
IMHO this tank is ready to be changed out. If for no other reason than the boat will sell at a discount until the job is done. It is a well documented problem and a known solution. No buyer is going to be happy about the old fiberglass tank, so it will impede the sale of the boat until the tank is replaced.
That leaves two choices at the moment... either the current seller replaces the tank and re-markets the boat, or he accepts a discounted offer. The seller now (or any seller in the future) trying to pretend that the original glass tank isn't a problem is simply in denial. Particularly when it looks like this on the inside.
Peter
Peter,
With 30-40 years of Gasoline I'd expect to see the inside look like that. My guess it would be fine till a solvent, such as Ethanol is introduced.
I personally wouldn't trust receiving Non-Ethanol fuel from any source other then Aviation fuel...but I also wouldn't travel or pay extra to get it and that wouldn't help me if traveling outside my area...but if I trusted my fuel dock to provide non Ethanol fuel and they tested it would be a different story.
That said, if it could be proven ethanol was not introduced...boat could be sold as a diesel conversion with the ol' fiberglass tank. Or if they finally repeal the corn juice the tank would be safe and continue to be a lifetime tank.
With 30-40 years of Gasoline I'd expect to see the inside look like that. My guess it would be fine till a solvent, such as Ethanol is introduced.
I personally wouldn't trust receiving Non-Ethanol fuel from any source other then Aviation fuel...but I also wouldn't travel or pay extra to get it and that wouldn't help me if traveling outside my area...but if I trusted my fuel dock to provide non Ethanol fuel and they tested it would be a different story.
That said, if it could be proven ethanol was not introduced...boat could be sold as a diesel conversion with the ol' fiberglass tank. Or if they finally repeal the corn juice the tank would be safe and continue to be a lifetime tank.
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