very special problem need advice

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 16th, '11, 17:25

this summer i figure i would volunteer phoenix to some very special individuals. i been in contact with a number of veterans .young men 20 to 25 that have had there legs amputated in the war. i wanted to take them bass fishing in the bay ,calm waters but cannot figure how to get the wheel chair from the dock into the cockpit of my boat in complete safety. need some imput.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » May 16th, '11, 17:46

Feels like you'd have to jury rig a small platform onto a short bladed fork lift that could lower the wheelchair from the dock to your deck. A suggestion.

Rocket · Post by **Rocket** » May 16th, '11, 18:00

Bob if these guys are young soldiers and they are amputees, not quadrapalegic, I would bet that they are incredibly strong and can hoist themselves around.

I would ask them for advice, they will know all the tricks.

If they are more severely disabled, perhaps a telescopic boom lift (man-lift) or a jib lift from a rental store would do the trick. We have ones at work that can boom out 80 feet and can be very precisely manouevered.

It is a great thing for you to be doing, congratulations.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 16th, '11, 18:08

i don`t want to embarass them in any way but you give me a idea . i could back my boat into the basin were the giant forklift puts the high and dry boats in the water . the van with wheelchair lift can pull up and lower lift onto some sort of platform . that forklift would not draw any attention it runs all day.maybe slings from fork lift under some platform just like they use to take boats off trailer with forklift.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 16th, '11, 18:13

Getting the chair aboard is a piece of cake, it's the passenger that poises the problem.

You already have a gin pole so you,re 90% there. The final mechanics, measurements, and materials I'll leave up to you.

Make a ring collar with a plastic bushing to fit around the mast. It needs a pad eye pivot point for attachment to a horizontal boom, and a locking ring below the collar.

From the boom end, you'll have a block and tackle attached to a soft bottom chair. Sort of a fancy boatswain's chair... Use carabiner style snaps for the seat harness.

Unhook one side of the chair, the guy slips the seat under his butt and clip it back together. Hoist him out of the chair, move the chair aboard, swing him around over the cockpit, and lower him back into the chair.

So simple, even a caveman could do it...

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » May 16th, '11, 18:14

I agree with Rocket, just ask them. They won't be embarassed, I know. I'm visually impaired and am very forthright in telling people that and asking for help if needed....most people are fine when I just tell them that and don't try to hide it or be self councious.

So just go right to them, tell them the set up and ask what they think. I've seen guys with no legs walk on their hands pretty good. But don't pussy foot around with their dieability and patronize them, just be up front and everything will be fine.

And you a good guy for doing this for them, and we are all better for you doing it.

UV

randall · Post by **randall** » May 16th, '11, 18:23

what UV said....from being involved with "wounded warrior" i am pretty sure it wont be a problem at all. these guys are generally amazingly self sufficient and i'd be surprised if they couldn't get on a boat. if they need help they won't hesitate to ask.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 16th, '11, 18:33

Bob,

Does OYC have a hoist for fishing tournaments, the one at the Babylon town dock swings out. I believe nickys on the bay in bayshore has one too. It's a bit of a run but all you'd need is a sling.

I've seen Tred Barta use this method. In it's absence raise the fork lift in the yard with block and tackle attached to one of the forks.

The newest episodes of Tred Bartas show he has all sorts of techniques like a chest harness in the fighting chair to give the angler some leverage.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » May 16th, '11, 18:56

As I recall Opinui (sorry.. I am not sure I spelled his name correctly) posted several months ago that he was taking some handicapped people for a ride. Perhaps he will respond to Bob's request.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » May 16th, '11, 20:16

Bob,
Been involved with this in the past.
Its not at all embarrasing to someone confined to a chair. Its the normal folks like you and I who can't handle it.

We pulled the boat up to a marina with a floating dock so there was less of a tide issue.

Some were able to run down the ramp on the chair that had good control and once at the side of the boat one guy on the right and left and lifted the chair bound person up, the chair was put on the boat and the person was passed to two more people on the boat who set them in either their chair or mostly because of rocking a rolling, a regular deck chair.

Those who had heavy electric chairs were switched to unpowered chairs and they realized the reason why for mobility.

Did this many, many times with no issues or problems. We always discussed with the organization we worked with about the logistics and since they dealt with this stuff 24/7 it was a no brainer.

I would never lift a person in a chair with a hoist, fork lift or any mechanical device unless it was specifically designed to lift chairs.

Remember organizations like wounded warrior deals with this all the time. Many people take the wounded vets out for fishing trips and such.

Ask.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 16th, '11, 20:29

Bob

My dad used to have a neighbor that was in a wheel chair. Both he and his son used to fish with us all the time. His son built an electric winch anchored at the bulkhead. We used to back the boat up to the bulkhead and with him sitting in the chair we used to winch him in and then back out when we got home.

It can be done if you design the lift system properly.

Thank god for the 110 sq ft deck. Otherwise follow Bruce's suggestion.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 16th, '11, 20:43

bruce forgive me for being naive i just did not think of asking the brothers to get out of there chairs . i do agree hoisting chair with forklift could lead to a unbalance condition. yes we do have a floating dock in basin that barely moves because basin is isolated from wave action. i want to thank everyone for there input on this important matter.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » May 16th, '11, 21:13

Bob, I just want to commend you on your efforts of showing gratitude to our disabled Vets.

Its a good thing that you are doing

hb

Dug · Post by **Dug** » May 17th, '11, 08:16

Bob,

There was a time where there was a fellow in a chair in my harbor who loved, loved, loved to fish. In fact, he rigged up his dock and boat to enable him to do so singlehandedly.

I agree with the suggestions as to asking those who will be going for their thoughts. that is the best.

But this fellow had a small manual gantry fashioned somewhat like the one Patrick drew.

Dug

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » May 17th, '11, 08:29

Call Kevin Bogan 723-892-8822.
He is involved in this program for vets.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » May 17th, '11, 09:08

When I was in school and working on the dock of a local resort we had a couple that would often bring there sportfish there. The wife was in a wheelchair and they used the gin pole set up with an electric winch and a bosun's chair to get her on and off. It worked well.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » May 17th, '11, 10:15

Gentlemen-
Shake-A-Leg (can't be accused of not having a sense of humor...) was the original name for "Sail to Prevail" http://www.sailtoprevail.org/ an international group of disabled sailors. They run sailing programs for the handicapped including one at SailNewport in RI open to disabled veterans.

They board people like Bruce said. Person is lifts themselves or is lifted out of the chair and onto a new chair on the boat.

They found the chairs on the boat were clunky and caused some anxiety as they could be pitched about if a big wake came by. The sailors were spending time managing their chair and not sailing. They have developed ingenious seats that "tack" (swivel or slide from side to side)

Soooo... says the guy with little time, less money and no talent....

I am acquainted with Paul Callahan the director, how about I try and cut a deal to get one or more of their chairs (or the design) for the faithful to mount on our boats (adapter to a fighting chair plate?) for use to share so we can go fishing with some disabled folks?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 17th, '11, 10:53

this came to mind after i was made aware to leave wheelchair at port. i figure i would use my fighting chair it is unique and made just for a 31 bertram no footrest and lower to cockpit then any other. .just a bucket harness and i feel the veteran would be in complete safety if a monster blue made a run.i would have to have another seat for another vet . two fishing one mate and myself.love to have a pro like cwj to do his liveline tactic.

opunui · Post by **opunui** » May 17th, '11, 14:28

Bob..
Each and every year i escort a team of twelve paddlers who are handcapped with prostetics or are paralyzed from the waist down.We paddle across one of the worlds dangerous channel for 32 miles in between the Island of Molokai and Oahu.

One thing these people dont want is pity. I have special Bean Bag Chairs. Once they get on the gunnels they roll on to the bean bags then out of the way for the next one to come aboard. We lift them on the gunnels and literally throw them in the water when doing exchanges in the water.

Check out Purelite racing .com.

There a great bunch of athletes who just want to do what every able body person can do.

Have fun with them.

They do not need there wheel chairs onboard, they can sit and relax in bean bags. They enjoy it that way.You probally dont have the swells we do where they paddle in 15-20 knot winds and 8-10ft seas.

Bean Bags Chairs are safer and easier to get in and out of.

Aloha, Bobby

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 17th, '11, 16:09

no i would not be easy taking them out the inlet in 8 to 10' seas . i will stay in the bay and do my best.i had no idea of the ability of some of these wariors but due to some great post i am getting quite a education. next year i will utilyze the gin pole like captain patrick illustrated . this gin pole is built super strong and a massive support at the bottom where it is inserted into a 6" by 8" block tabbed into large area of bottom,chine ,and hull side. also braced 3' up from bottom ,tie into gunnels which are 21/4" thick starting from forward of pillars all the way around to pillar of opposite side.

opunui · Post by **opunui** » May 17th, '11, 17:10

Bob.
These guys are very nimble and tough. the thought of a gin pole is great but if you asked them..i bet they can get on the gunnels and drop into a bean bag..Up to you.

I will send you some pic's when i leave my office today or in the am on how it looks like.

While the six are in the canoe and the other six are onboard. i have a medical doctor and two life guards in case an emergency arises.

Ed Curry · Post by **Ed Curry** » May 17th, '11, 18:52

A guy on my canal has been doing this for the handicapped for a few years now. www.kipsboat.org is his website and he has a phone number listed there. I'm sure he could give good advice on the needs of a disabled veteran.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 17th, '11, 21:24

ed it seems like he does alot with children . i am going to make this strickly a veteran event. i will look into the bean bag approach due to the fact the bertram gunnels are low and the floating dock in the basin could be a 12" step between dock and gunnel so they could turn around and sit on gunnel then drop onto a bean bag. i was thinking the guys i met were leg amputees so they would have arm power to hold arm on gin pole to steady them.------i an going to make this work so help me GOD!!!

luis · Post by **luis** » May 18th, '11, 06:54

Maybe this could help too.

http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/topic ... -the-lake/

PaulJ · Post by **PaulJ** » May 18th, '11, 09:14

Bob,
This may sound too simple, but I thought I would post this anyway.

Preface: I'm a pretty big guy (north of 250#) and am in reasonable shape. I used to be heavy into weight lifting... not so much anymore.

Last year I took a parapalegic (near quad - has some use of both arms) who was about 200# out in the boat. To get him on board, I just picked him up out of his chair and carried him on board. Sat him down in one of the deck chairs. He had his own portable straps with chest and leg boards and we strapped him down. He loved it.

So, you might just find out if you can find some big strong vets to help. Get some extra deck chairs and there you go.

Paul J
1973 B28 - PALADIN

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » May 19th, '11, 16:40

I have personally had the priviledge of spending time with some "wounded warriors" and from what I experienced they dont want to be treated special. If they need a hand (like picking them up) and carrying them on board that would be fine.

We had a few guys in prospect park (Brooklyn) a few yrs back and there is a merry-go-round there. The guys wanted to go on with their girlfriends and wives, so we (FDNY guys) did what was necessary to oblige them whether picking them up or just assisting. They ARE great Americans (The Vets) and we had a good time with them.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 19th, '11, 18:18

I have a friend who is wheel chair ridden...helping him get around is mostly done by him instructing me what to do. He's mostly got it all figured out. Gadets and crap just seem to get in the way.

If it were me, I'd ask someone in a simialr position to come down and give it the once over before hand.

I have a worker that lost some fingers and mobility of the hand...once in awhile he'll give me the "oh how am I supposed to do that with this". My answer, you applied for the job, you said you could do anything, you figure it out. He does and often comes up with some real ingenious ways of working thru it...much better then anythiing I could come up with.

Bob...just don't leave them in their chairs and show them how great Capt Pats ruders work at speed...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 20th, '11, 08:54

sim i am not leaving the bay and no more then 20knt. in a straight line i don`t know what to say when one wants to use head.!!!! have not figure that out yet. i been i awkward position some years back . these business guys come to marina and ask to rent boat and someone to take them to a "deserted beach on fire island". i was elected so we took this cc across with 4 Victoria secret models . I had to beach boat slightly so the girls would not have to wade to shore. not a good day,carry all those clothes and food to oceanshore on my shoulder . decline tip but held the temporary sheet while the girls change there bathing suits-----------sorry no photo`s

randall · Post by **randall** » May 20th, '11, 09:35

bob...i had a similar experience...friend calls me up and asks for a favor. the favor was to drive his 57 vette to a victoria's secret photo shoot. i hesitated for a second and he offered me $400 bucks to do it. a fun day was had by all......it was november and 45 degrees out......use your imagination.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 20th, '11, 10:57

Bob, next time you need a hand with a Victoria Secret Photoshoot...give me a call...I'm sure I can find the time to lend a helping hand. I am quite good at holding up Curtains.

Best story I have... going to the boat show several years ago with wives and friends...we stop at Hooters on the way for Lunch. Get to talking with the manager on a friendly basis and it seems he has quite the dilemma...the "Hooter Calander Girl" who is at his place for a Promotion "Meet the Hooters Calander Girls" needs to be at the Javits Convention Center for another Promotional Stop, the car to take her has not shown up and she is real late. So of course we offer to take her with us as we are going to the Javits Center for the Boat Show too. It was a tight fit before with six of us crammed in a extended cab pickup....but now the poor girl was crammed in there too. mmm I do like a tight fit and sitting in the back with the girls does have it's advantages !

As to the facilities (or anything really)...I'd run it past someone in that situation and let them tell you what is the best scenario for them.
If your like me, you'll over think it and it can become an awkward situation. They have to deal with their situation 24/7, they've already worked out many of the problems. My friend will go to the end of the dock away from everyone and piss in a cup...just easier then hauling on the boat and fanagling him into the head or the other choice of running him back up to the docks facilities. I don't have a problem helping him on the boat or running him to the bathroom...but for him it's just more trouble then its worth.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 20th, '11, 11:09

at first i said wow this is going to be great but when we approach this derserted area of fire island (just east of barret beach) with bull weed along the shore they started bitching and complaining about wading to shore ( some things never change). i had to gently beach this new center console ----going to piss off the boss man! anyways they had 2 tons of garbage to take ashore with these lazy ass photographers.i learn another venture in boating they where nothing under the bikini tops but where a tiny thong under bottoms -----what the hell better than learning how to change a detroit starter motor!!!

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » May 23rd, '11, 19:17

Hats off to you Bob..for helpn those Warriors...Chris Gallati down in Bradenton FL, may be able to give you some insight on wheelchair fishing..he runs the families Viking tournament boat...flybridge..He's in a chair..made a sweet lift system..only way to learn is ask..especially from a pro..BH

Chanse · Post by **Chanse** » May 24th, '11, 18:55

A Salute to you Bob Lico!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 25th, '11, 08:26

I recently saw in email that for the Babylon tuna clubs tournament. They set up an "opt in" during registration of their tournament to take an active duty service man or women out with you. It's the weekend before the NE rendezvous. I can email the flyer to anyone who wants more information.

bertram31.com

very special problem need advice

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