finally pulling the trigger
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finally pulling the trigger
Boat is at the yard. Removing the bottom paint since I bought an elavator lift. So should I have them gel coat it or is there a better alternative that is smoother?
Kevin, I went the west epoxy route with barrier coat additive, did about 8 coats. The smooth part comes from all the sanding and fairing, the smoother you want...you get the point....ask Harry how fun it is to fair the bottom of a 31...I found gymnastic mats stacked up until I was flat on my back about 12" from the hull made fairing bearable. Id take 4 advil before I started each day and sanded until my arms just about fell off. Take a few days off n repeat. BH
1966 31 Bahia Mar #316-512....8 years later..Resolute is now a reality..Builder to Boater..285 hours on the clocks..enjoying every minute..how many days till spring?
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Harry Babb
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Bob wrote:ask Harry how fun it is to fair the bottom of a 31
Like my grandson would say......"fun like a stomach pump, Pawpaw"! !
But it has to be done.....and if its worth doing its worth doing right.
You can really find out who your friends are when you start sanding the bottom of a boat.
I just keep saying over and over......this gonna be nice when its done....its gonna be nice when its done....
It was actually Mr Bob Higgins that introduced me to blasting with Corn Cobs......that's the way to go...
hb
hb
OK sounds good......not really. I know that there are a couple spots visible where gelcoat has popped off. I usually have about 6 every 1.5-2 years when I have the bottom painted. My glass guys will go in and sand them and fill and finish off with gelcoat, then the new bottom paint. I would anticipate that sanding off all the bottom paint will reveal an exponential number of areas that need to be repaired. I was kind of hoping that once the problem areas are addressed that gel coat or barrier coat could be sprayed on and call it a day. I figure anything is better than 30 years worth of antifouling paint, right? I do not need show boat perfection, but I do not want what ever coating used to fall off after a few seasons.
I guess I should mention I am not the one doing the work either. The guys that initially painted my boat 5 years ago are doing the job. They do great work for reasonable coin.
The end goal is more speed or burning less fuel at my current speed. Even just a knot or two and I will be happy. No bottom growth to worry about will allow me to add almost 2 inches of pitch and still be within manufacturer specification all the time. Prop tweaking may lead to another thread as I know the experts are here. I cant afford Lico style props but I aim for it! I hope that when this project is complete I can report some real performance gains.
I guess I should mention I am not the one doing the work either. The guys that initially painted my boat 5 years ago are doing the job. They do great work for reasonable coin.
The end goal is more speed or burning less fuel at my current speed. Even just a knot or two and I will be happy. No bottom growth to worry about will allow me to add almost 2 inches of pitch and still be within manufacturer specification all the time. Prop tweaking may lead to another thread as I know the experts are here. I cant afford Lico style props but I aim for it! I hope that when this project is complete I can report some real performance gains.
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Tony Meola
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Kevin
I don't think the barrier coat will be slick enough to get you want you want. Since you are on a lift, why not soda blast, barrier coat, then put on a coat or two of the teflon bottom paint and burnish it slick. You would probably only need to do it like every 5 years or so. Just wait untilt he barrier coat starts to show through again. It's the multiple coats that cause peeling.
I don't think the barrier coat will be slick enough to get you want you want. Since you are on a lift, why not soda blast, barrier coat, then put on a coat or two of the teflon bottom paint and burnish it slick. You would probably only need to do it like every 5 years or so. Just wait untilt he barrier coat starts to show through again. It's the multiple coats that cause peeling.
1975 FBC BERG1467-315
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TailhookTom
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Hey Bob:
I followed a similar prep me with Advil prior to crawling underneath, and I used a bench covered in a pad to put me at about the same distance. I also barrier coated and got very familiar with every lifting strake and at times I did curse Mr. Hunt for designing so many into the bottom. I generally vent until my hands and arms had an oscillating vibration even without the sander.
The exception from your method was that after soaking in a shower for an hour after, I consumed more than 2 adult beverages and a fine cigar!
Tight Lines,
Tom
I followed a similar prep me with Advil prior to crawling underneath, and I used a bench covered in a pad to put me at about the same distance. I also barrier coated and got very familiar with every lifting strake and at times I did curse Mr. Hunt for designing so many into the bottom. I generally vent until my hands and arms had an oscillating vibration even without the sander.
The exception from your method was that after soaking in a shower for an hour after, I consumed more than 2 adult beverages and a fine cigar!
Tight Lines,
Tom
Kevin: Interlux VC-17 (with teflon) over barrier coat gives a slick bottom with no paint buildup. it's real thin, so fouling protection is only fair. Might be the answer for a lift-stored boat that you want to be able to leave in occasionally. It's used a lot in the Great Lakes on racing sailboats. 2 quarts coat a B28. It's different, because it's basically a watery solvent that you manually mix copper into prior to use. It changes color to either bronze or blue once it gets wet. Might be something for you to look at.
take a look at this link. http://www.boatingabc.com/forums/ubbthr ... VC_17.html
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Tony Meola
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http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/produ ... nerName=vc offshore
or maybe this one
http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/produ ... nerName=vc performance
Kevin
This is the one you want to look at. I just don't think barrier coat alone will cut it. You need to get it slick. If it was fiberglass you would have to wax it to keep it slick. With this, you get it on smooth, burnish it if you want, then let it go until it wears off then coat again.
or maybe this one
http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/produ ... nerName=vc performance
Kevin
This is the one you want to look at. I just don't think barrier coat alone will cut it. You need to get it slick. If it was fiberglass you would have to wax it to keep it slick. With this, you get it on smooth, burnish it if you want, then let it go until it wears off then coat again.
1975 FBC BERG1467-315
Sounds like there are several options to choose from.
I thought I read somewhere that wax actually increases drag. I am going to look into that again. I can not picture myself regularly going under the boat to wax it, but that is just a hunch.
Having a tough time with any other color than black or white. The pink color described in the link is out of the question!
I picked up the lift and brought it to the house today. Looks like a nice peice. 17000lb capacity Hi tide with remote.
I am still all ears for more thoughts on what to do for the bottom. I have some time to think about it so that is good.
I thought I read somewhere that wax actually increases drag. I am going to look into that again. I can not picture myself regularly going under the boat to wax it, but that is just a hunch.
Having a tough time with any other color than black or white. The pink color described in the link is out of the question!
I picked up the lift and brought it to the house today. Looks like a nice peice. 17000lb capacity Hi tide with remote.
I am still all ears for more thoughts on what to do for the bottom. I have some time to think about it so that is good.
Kevin,
You are correct wax adds drag. The fastest bottoms are simply wet sanded with 600 fore and aft. Before a sailing race you'd see the guys hitting the bottoms with dishwashing detergent (cascades sheeting action and all that).
I know of one big boat with the VC performance epoxy on the bottom and micron sides (carolina smile with the performance epoxy) Capt couldn't say there was any noticeable difference in speed. The boat was an H&H and was close to 60ft in length. You'd think with all the planing surface you'd see an advantage he couldn't contribute a number. Its not a sail boat, sail boats fight for tenths of knots power boaters typically look for a silver bullet, this wasn't it..
With a moderately powered smaller boat I would think the differences become a war of inches when comparing clean micron bottoms to cleaned and sanded epoxy bottoms.
My best guess would be to use an ablative paint that can be dry stored for some time without losing its antifouling properties and of course without discoloring- that might leave out the "shark whites" and lighter colors. But still leaves you with the option of leaving the boat in the water for a few days or a month without having to get a guy to scrub her down.
Pay attention to application so as not to booger up the chines and such and I would imagine you'd be very close to the same speed as compared to painting and burnishing an epoxy. For way fewer pesos. Again drag is increased exponentially with speed (let's use 25kts as a base line), so the gains are smaller the slower the vessel. Just my thoughts and again there is always step 8.
You are correct wax adds drag. The fastest bottoms are simply wet sanded with 600 fore and aft. Before a sailing race you'd see the guys hitting the bottoms with dishwashing detergent (cascades sheeting action and all that).
I know of one big boat with the VC performance epoxy on the bottom and micron sides (carolina smile with the performance epoxy) Capt couldn't say there was any noticeable difference in speed. The boat was an H&H and was close to 60ft in length. You'd think with all the planing surface you'd see an advantage he couldn't contribute a number. Its not a sail boat, sail boats fight for tenths of knots power boaters typically look for a silver bullet, this wasn't it..
With a moderately powered smaller boat I would think the differences become a war of inches when comparing clean micron bottoms to cleaned and sanded epoxy bottoms.
My best guess would be to use an ablative paint that can be dry stored for some time without losing its antifouling properties and of course without discoloring- that might leave out the "shark whites" and lighter colors. But still leaves you with the option of leaving the boat in the water for a few days or a month without having to get a guy to scrub her down.
Pay attention to application so as not to booger up the chines and such and I would imagine you'd be very close to the same speed as compared to painting and burnishing an epoxy. For way fewer pesos. Again drag is increased exponentially with speed (let's use 25kts as a base line), so the gains are smaller the slower the vessel. Just my thoughts and again there is always step 8.
KR
JP
1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
JP
1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
I agree with JP. Barrier coat and then black ablative paint. I switched over to Interlux Micron this year from the hard paints. I went 3 coats to hopefully get an extra year or so.
With ablative, you can stay hauled out without loosing the effectiveness of the paint. Only drawbacks I know of are it's a bit more expensive and if you beach the boat regularly, you will wear off the paint at the keel.
Eddy G.
With ablative, you can stay hauled out without loosing the effectiveness of the paint. Only drawbacks I know of are it's a bit more expensive and if you beach the boat regularly, you will wear off the paint at the keel.
Eddy G.
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JohnCranston
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- Joined: Jul 8th, '06, 17:50
- Location: Spring, TX; Freeport TX
Kevin,
My boat will stay on a lift also, so, I wasn't worried about anti fouling properties. After grinding off the bottom paint, and getting the gelcoat real thin, they applied VC performance epoxy. The bottom is as slick as a baby's butt. It's almost as slick as my hull sides. A few years ago, it was a little over $100 per gallon and only came in white. The paint's super hard and has a shiny luster. I'm very glad that we went that route for $1k instead of blowing $5k for the gelcoat job..plus, it won't wear off like traditional bottom paint. It's also a breeze to touch up if you hit hard water.
John.
My boat will stay on a lift also, so, I wasn't worried about anti fouling properties. After grinding off the bottom paint, and getting the gelcoat real thin, they applied VC performance epoxy. The bottom is as slick as a baby's butt. It's almost as slick as my hull sides. A few years ago, it was a little over $100 per gallon and only came in white. The paint's super hard and has a shiny luster. I'm very glad that we went that route for $1k instead of blowing $5k for the gelcoat job..plus, it won't wear off like traditional bottom paint. It's also a breeze to touch up if you hit hard water.
John.
I'll never ruin a $50 buzz with a $4 sandwich
John,
That is sounding good. White and slick is what I am looking for. My yard said 5 gallons of gelcoat would be needed if I went that route. Although the price I got for the product came to about 155 bucks for all of it. "Friends in the business" Labor will be a different story but I am going to see if they can get the VC epoxy instead. Can the VC be sprayed on?
That is sounding good. White and slick is what I am looking for. My yard said 5 gallons of gelcoat would be needed if I went that route. Although the price I got for the product came to about 155 bucks for all of it. "Friends in the business" Labor will be a different story but I am going to see if they can get the VC epoxy instead. Can the VC be sprayed on?
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JohnCranston
- Senior Member
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Jul 8th, '06, 17:50
- Location: Spring, TX; Freeport TX
I used the VC Performance Epoxy on my Sidewinder skiff redux...
First I had to sand off all the black antifoul
Then grind out 7 areas of hull damage
Repair hull damage with epoxy and glass
Fair out hull bottom
Spray 4 coats Epoxy Barrier
Sand hull again with 120
Spray 2 coats VC P.Epoxy...
All done with the boat on blocks and my on my back working above my head.
Whew...Glad that's done.
Seems like a good product, hard and slick. Can be burnished for mo-speed too, but I don't think that'll apply here.
It also has flouro-micro additives, which seperate it from other epoxies by making it not subject to UV degregation...
First I had to sand off all the black antifoul
Then grind out 7 areas of hull damage
Repair hull damage with epoxy and glass
Fair out hull bottom
Spray 4 coats Epoxy Barrier
Sand hull again with 120
Spray 2 coats VC P.Epoxy...
All done with the boat on blocks and my on my back working above my head.
Whew...Glad that's done.
Seems like a good product, hard and slick. Can be burnished for mo-speed too, but I don't think that'll apply here.
It also has flouro-micro additives, which seperate it from other epoxies by making it not subject to UV degregation...
I don't know what the world may want,
But a good stiff drink it surely dont,
Think I'll go and fix myself...a tall one.
But a good stiff drink it surely dont,
Think I'll go and fix myself...a tall one.
Kevin -
Not sure if you 'need' to barrier coat with this, but I would.
In case you in the future or a future owner will wet slip her, this part of the work is done.
Also, the interprotect sands really well. If you are not perfect with the fairing, this sands really well.
The only downside that I can think of with the VC is that you can;t coat over it with anti-fouling if you ever go that route.
Ian.
Not sure if you 'need' to barrier coat with this, but I would.
In case you in the future or a future owner will wet slip her, this part of the work is done.
Also, the interprotect sands really well. If you are not perfect with the fairing, this sands really well.
The only downside that I can think of with the VC is that you can;t coat over it with anti-fouling if you ever go that route.
Ian.
I usually plan ahead but at this point I could never sell the boat. I have way too much into it. I will not have a need to leave it in the water anymnore, unless I do a trip to Bimini or the Tortugas in which case it would be run daily for less than a week. Bob is helping me with the prop side of things. Right now the bottom paint is still on so I am guessing it will be close to a month before she is back in the water. Gonna be a long month.
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